Top 10 Reasons to Not Do Mary Kay

Add up all your expenses including phone calls, samples, time at event from prep time to last close, free product, discounts, gas, commute, paper used (sales tickets, profiles), replenishing inventory, etc. and how much of that $20 per hour is actually yours?

Now scrutinize those numbers in Applause again with the sales directors and deduct those expenses. Their expenses are commensurate with their position because they have alot more than the IBC. There's articles on here plugging numbers from women who were very successful sales directors.

Third, why are you here trying to convince a bunch of women who have already been there and done all that to your particular view of things? You think we don't know or something? We have all been there and know how it works; some moreso than you. Rebecca, what are you doing here?

[quote]This is a site for people who were conned by directors and NSD's [/quote]Yes, it is, The objective is to expose the con and stop it.
[quote]The decision to buy inventory, recruit, and attend events are completely up to you![/quote]
In most cases the decision was made based on false information deliberately supplied by conning directors and NSDs. They were lied to in order to get them to sign the contract and order inventory.

If all the information, including the real statistics for income and expenses, the timing of product changes, and the number of IBCs in an area were made available up front, that could be called a decision.

Becky Wright, I have no clue what lead you to believe that I was saying that my opinion is any better than anyone else's. I'm trying to ask the questions that get someone to think about what they are doing. My objective is to give a real picture of typical MK business expenses of an IBC or director. All that glitters is not gold as most of us know. Normal operating costs of an MK business, even on the conservative side, are excessive. Unfortunately, MK's 60/40 magic math being taught during "training" does not give an accurate picture. Most of the sales force is not trained to develop an accurate picture of the profit and loss and running expenses of their business. When their tax schedule shows a loss, it comes as a big surprise. If this hasn't happened to you, then none of this applies. Good for you for having more sense. Don't blow off what I'm saying because it annoys you. It might help someone else. That's what we're about here.

Becky Wright said: "The decision to buy inventory, recruit, and attend events are completely up to you!"

Lazy Gardens replied with: "In most cases the decision was made based on false information deliberately supplied by conning directors and NSDs..."

Lazy Gardens' statement is accurate. While the decision might be up to you, the information given to "help" you make that decision will be heavily skewed in the recruiter's favor.

For example, NSD Stacy James teaches her recruiters to only explain the top three levels of inventory - why is that? Is a potential recruit to be faulted for buying a $2400 inventory if that was the lowest level presented?

What if new consultants are told that they don't need to attend events, but if they want to succeed, they better be there with bells on? I mean, what fresh-out-of-the-coffee-house IBC's going to say, "Naw, I'm good. I don't need meetings because I don't want to succeed?" New consultants don't know that the average unit meeting is about as professional as a game of "duck-duck-goose" and - more often than not - will cost them each time they attend. "Free" training, indeed.

That's why PT is here; to shout what NSDs and other MK leaders are determined to keep silent by calling it "negative."

Thanks for posting this. I just came back from a MK color consulting class. I already knew that it was a ploy to get us to buy products or sign up. My auntie sold MK years ago and even got the Grand AM MK car. What we didn't know was that she was burying herself in debt thanks to MK and eventually left the country to avoid the creditors. It was her choice to continue to invest in MK so she can only blame herself for getting sucked into the the idea that she was going to one day get rich off this MLM. Our ENTIRE family got MK crap for birthday's, xmas, and prize giveaways for YEARS. Lord only knows how old some of that crap was by the time she gave it to us. Thank you for this site and opening my eyes to what THEY don't tell you at the meetings. I haven't been around MK for about 10 years. The schemes and ploys are all still the same from when my aunt was in it.

They brought us women together, talked all this rah rah about how great their lives are thanks to MK and what a feeling it was to drive a free car where the company pays for the insurance and everything. The whole time I sat there wanting to roll my eyes because I knew it was all BS.

They even mentioned the $100 rebate promo and ALMOST signed up to get the "free" makeup kit. Thank god I decided not to. I found this site and got the low down.

I do have one question, they offer this $10 coupon and if you go to 4 classes, you can get the makeup brush set free. Is it REALLY FREE?

Incognito, you made me laugh so much. I have been rolling in laughter.

I am a new MK consultant (in my old age) but was skeptical from the day I signed on. Why do I need to buy $600 or $1800 worth of inventory when I don't even have one customer yet. Now I understand why. Thanks to all the comments read above.

The story of incognito's aunt made me roll in laughter esp. the thought that every family member was receiving MK 'crap' as gifts all year round. Love it or not! Although sad, your story has opened my eyes to what the whole scheme is all about.

I am a smart woman, who earned a 6 figure income over the past year from the corporate world. I wanted to try a new angle due to the economy and was enticed by the story of making multi-thousand income per month. However, I am also someone who tries to read between the lines without being over-analytical. One thing that I could not get my head around is why I needed to buy inventory and also pay for every event I attended. Having said this, I will still carry on with MK but will only order what a customer needs. I am not holding inventory and I am not recruiting desperately. I guess I will never qualify for the pink Cadillac which is okay so long as I recoup my $100 plus tax initial payment. Thanks everyone!

Hey Smart, keep in mind that you do have a quota to make in order to get wholesale prices.

Все самое лучшее для Вконтакте - скачать журналы бесплатно

I am a new MK consultant and I can say that every single point above is true! Every. single. one. I'm so glad that I found this site! I can save a lot of money for my family now---knowing all the cons! I wish I could just forget that I ever signed up!

Any one else curious about the Anonymous comment above?

This is what I came up with, in Russian:

"All the best for Vkontakte - Magazines free download"

Yes duped, I wondered what that was all about. I've noticed a few of those lately and I don't get it! :s

MKGirlygirl...you are limited in knowledge, and completely unaware of the tactics used along the career path. If you believe Mary Kay is innocent regarding financial abuse, then you are already exhibiting the effects of brainwashing. Have the courage to ask your Director to see her schedule C...when you see what she really makes, you will be stunned. You haven't chosen the career path...good for you. Those of us who were pushed, prodded, manipulated and baited and lied to to give it a try, soon learned how minimum production is accomplished. Until you do, firsthand, you have very little opinion to offer the women of this site, regarding Mk practices. Sorry to be so blunt...but you have no idea who is contributing here, and how many tens of decades of experience is shared here.

I signed up as a consultant just a few days ago. My recruiter and director are extremely nice women and my recruiter and I have become good friends since I began buying from her. Mary Kay is my absolute favorite make-up/skin care brand (the only thing I can find that agrees with my skin) and I plan on continuing to use it for years.

However... I'm considering returning my starter kit and forgetting the whole thing. REALLY considering it. In fact, the only thing keeping me is my aforementioned love of the product creating greed for the starter kit (I can afford the hundred dollars for it).

Suffice it to say that I wasn't exactly jumping for joy. They've talked about it to me for months now--without ever being pushy or weird (again, they are exceedingly cool women). I guess I decided to join on a whim. When I met with my new director the following night, my eyes were opened a bit. Now I make my living as a teacher and never had an interest in business. I'm guessing that what she showed me was fairly standard for business--tax information, inventory, the like. I don't have the head for stuff like that. So I was getting a little apprehensive. Then she started in detail on the inventory. I wouldn't say she pushed it on me, but it was certainly high recommendation, her starring various inventory levels she thought might suit my business plan (darn site would only let me pick 5 hours, a bit more than the dabbling I kinda had in mind). She admitted that inventory wasn't required but said that it leads to greater sales and greater personal desire to get out and sale. I'm in my mid-twenties and still somewhat in debt from starting my life (student loans, rent, car payment). It is actually all less than 10,000$ total, but I'm terrified of debt and at my salary even purchasing the 600$ inventory on credit was scary.

Then there is the fact that I am a shy, rather reclusive person who doesn't like to call people and ask them to do things. Her list of "how to get my business off on the right track" had deadlines that seemed a bit shocking to me. One of the reasons I joined was in hopes of expanding my comfort zone, but now I'm thinking I don't want to do it this way.

I had enough bad feelings by the time I returned home to get on the internet and do some research of people's opinions and experiences. That is how I stumbled upon this site.

I've discovered that I truly do not need to buy inventory and that if I decided to continue this thing a little longer inventory is not recommended until I have a super-large customer base.

I've discovered that my little deadline list is rather rushed.

I've recalled that my two other friends who sell Mary Kay are happy enough with it but also happen to be dabblers.

I'm heading to the lake for the latter half of next week--probably about the time my starter kit will arrive. My roommate is at school and work all day and an absolute moron with the missed delivery slips the UPS guy leaves for me, so with any luck the three delivery attempts will pass before I return and the kit will be shipped back. If not, I'll selfishly keep the kit for just me and maybe put in an order for a few friends and me.

I love Mary Kay products. I'll happy order from another consultant.

But I really don't think I want to be a consultant.

Is four days too early to change my mind on this?

(Sorry for the freakishly long post)

It's never too early. You are really thinking and you need to go with your gut and get out. Don't look back. If you love using MK that much, get it for dirt cheap off of ebay or touch of pink cosmetics. You'll never be sorry for making such a great decision.

Thanks, pinksedition!

Would you have any advice on breaking the news to my recruiter and sales director? They are sweet. I think I can get away with a basic "Sorry, but I don't think this is for me?" My sales director and I are the same religion and I could probably also throw in a spirituality-based I-don't-feel-good-about-this. But I've read other comments by you and you seem very experienced, so if you have any more advice, I'd love to hear it.

And (and if this is horrible of me, just say so) would it be wrong to cancel my number when I get my stuff and just keep the starter kit saying I opened it and used it?

No, of course it would not be wrong to keep the kit you paid for, but do you really want 10 full size tubes of foundation in 10 different shades? A full size cleanser and moisturizer for oily skin and a full size set for dry skin? Makeup mirrors and samplers for classes you'll never hold? Business cards and paperwork you will just throw out?

Why not just buy the items you'll actually use with much less waste. Go to www.touchofpinkcosmetics.com and at least look. Most of the items are less than wholesale prices. Women generally end up donating or throwing out most of their starter kits when they quit.

Whether you end up keeping the kit or refusing delivery, it's a smart choice to quit MK before you get involved. Good luck.

Good point. Well, I'll probably miss delivery while I'm at the lake anyway.

Would it be wrong to disappear off the face of the Earth in regards to my recruitor and sales director? They are nice women, but they do kinda live on the other side of the city.

One more question and then I promise I'll shut up.

When I refuse delivery or return the kit, how is the refund done? Is it automatic with the return or do I need to call the company? Does refusing the kit cancel me as a consultant?

Captain Em:
How does this sound:

"I prayed about it, and God told me that signing up for Mary Kay is not in my best interests. Please respect my decision." (and whatever they say after that, just keep repeating that phrase)

Or, less sarcastic: "Staying in Mary Kay is not in my best interests. Please respect my decision." (and whatever they say after that, just keep repeating that phrase or just hang up)

***********
And if they call repeatedly, just repeat that phrase as the answer to any question they have.

It's a negotiating technique called "broken record" and it's very effective because there is not way to hook you into a discussion. You just keep saying your set phrase.

Call Corporate and let them know you are refusing delivery and that an unopened starter kit is being returned to them. Ask when your credit card will be credited for the return, and KEEP AFTER THEM. It might take a couple of phone calls to confirm that they have received it and get your refund. Look out for yourself here. You get no refund if the starter kit is opened.

To the kaybots

MK Ultra just got to you.

You believe your own crap.

You cannot order what you want just when you want, here in Montreal you need min $200 wholesale every 3 months to keep the 50% privilege, they dictate where you can and cannot post and ad - you cannot even get a website address unless you are buying inventory in the $300 wholesale and up.

You tell half truths so you are not truthful women but liars.

How did they stay in business for all those years - taking advantage of kaybots like you. And your customers love you and your products, the brainwashing does not just work on the IBC's - lots of customers are brainwashed, and some end up with cancer, luckily Mary Kay donates to their cause. What a caring company.

CaptainEm

Then there is the fact that I am a shy, rather reclusive person who doesn't like to call people and ask them to do things.

Be true to yourself.

You are you and you are perfect as you are. Becoming an IBC is not expanding your comfort zone, it is about being used.

Perhaps they are so "cool" because that is the approach to take with someone who is sweet.

There are more constructive ways to expand your horizons.

I found this article on another web site just wanted to post it because this is exactly what I do when a Mark kay consultant/stalker comes my way.

To summarize, here are a few tips to keep Mary Kay at bay:

1. Look slovenly or have leprosy.
2. Look really great from the back and the side, but show your facial scars, big buck teeth, and nasty boogers in front. This way, you will be able to exult triumphantly as you watch their faces dissolve in horror.
3. Appear to be extremely busy or rushed.
4. Wear a coonskin cap.
5. Show your plumber's crack.
6. Roll up your sleeves to reveal your needle tracks or open sores.
7. Employ a man to escort you in public.
8. If you can't find a man, round up at least three other women. Mary Kay consultants will usually not approach a group unless desperate or very, very hungry.
9. If a consultant succeeds in cornering you, try not to look like a deer in the headlights. Look like a possum instead.
10. Use intestinal gas to your advantage.
11. Tell the consultant that you LOVE what you do and wouldn't dream of changing careers, except to take up swine farming.
12. Carry some extra business cards -- someone else's business cards.
13. Give out Marriott's 1-800 number as your home phone number.
14. Explain to the consultant that you'd really like to stay and chat, but you have a nervous condition that makes you defecate in front of strangers.
15. If all else fails, have a grand mal seizure.

Steelergal06

I really get a good chuckle reading brainwashed kabot's posts!

Love the name except I see as stealergalSD

Anyway...
Steelergal06 wrote:
[quote]Captain Em I really hope that these people have not changed your mind and you were more mature than to fall off the face of the earth to your director.[/quote]
I believe she needs to make her decision to fall of the face of the MK earth for herself and herself only. Her director does not belong in the equation for her decision. Nice try with the guilt thing, though!

[quote]Do you really want to buy products that you are going to put on your face off a site that is not supported with a guarentee??[/quote]
There are plenty of MK products (same products for much cheaper) to purchase off of Ebay or TOP. Ebay has a reputation status so you can report someone for bad business etc...
[quote]I feel bad for the people that put themselves in debt by selling Mary Kay. I guess there really are some people that just don't know how to run a business. Its a shame that they have to put down such a great company because of their failures.[/quote]
Aw, how sweet... out of the mouth of a brainwashed babe!

8. If you can't find a man, round up at least three other women. Mary Kay consultants will usually not approach a group unless desperate or very, very hungry.

For a second, I thought you were going to say that MK recruiters and consultants won't talk to you if they think you're a lesbian.

Wonder what would happen if I showed up with a "guest" and pretended she was my part-time lover? Or what if I went down to the local drag show and offered to give a skin care class to the queens?

"I guess there really are some people that just don't know how to run a business..."

But these NSDs have insisted that it's okay if potential recruits don't know how to run a business! Look:

“Mary Kay is not a difficult job. If you can read from a book, squirt from a tube, smile and nod and say “How does your face feel?” then maybe you might consider something like this…”
~NSD Rena Tarbet

“Anybody can do Mary Kay – all you have to do is be excited and have fun!”
~NSD Natalie Privette-Jones

"I feel like Mary Kay is for everyone." ~NSD Kimberly Walker-Roop

Why the one-size-fits-all mentality? Because if these NSDs were truly honest about what it took to claw one's way to the top, potential recruits would stand up, throw the coffee in the recruiter's face, and - to the tune of Stars and Stripes Forever - march out of Starbucks brandishing the one-finger salute.

$20 an hour? I highly doubt it, and if it is true then you're probably recruiting like crazy, but that will dry up eventually. Here is a simple way to calculate how much you're really making per hour.

(total earned)-(cost)=(profit)

Total earned is how much you made total "selling" or most likely buying the products. Cost is the cost of EVERYTHING you used in your business. This includes "incentives", gas, phone, section 2, etc.

Once you subtract these two, you get profit. Then you take the profit and DIVIDE it by ALL the hours you used working. And yes that includes time for phone calls, "warm chatter", driving and the actual time of the sale itself. THAT will be your hourly wage.

[size=medium][/size]So very glad I ran across this website. I just got out yesterday and it is the best feeling ever. No phone calls saying that I am being lazy and not being the Mary Kay way. No more having to be looked down on because I couldn't recruit the last 2 people our unit needed for the month or sell 20 satin hands in a week ... No more!! Thank yall girls for being here for other women who need some clarification on what to do and don't know how to get out.Oh and the website is totally right about when you send you inventory in for repurchase, I had about 8 different women calling all day. Just ignore them. It's your best bet. The voice mails were bad enough.

My, my this is fun! I'm really happy to see that we have new MK consultants visiting this website, and I hope they find their ways to the discussion boards, especially the director threads.

I was a director for 11 years. I promise you, consultants are NEVER given the full story about Mary Kay and the company. It would be director suicide to tell them about all the pitfalls that await them as they climb up the MK ladder. If they knew, they'd never go for it. In fact, directors are trained never to give too much information to consultants. We'd say that we "didn't want to confuse a consultant with more information than she needed at the time," but all of us SDs knew that full disclosure would mean losing consultants from our units.

The only way a sales director makes the "big girl pay" is to recruit women who will place large initial orders and who will keep ordering, even when they don't need products. (Hence the contests, cars, etc. that encourage orders, no matter the real sales activities). If a unit relied on actual sales, it would be sunk.

Here's an idea: Along with asking to see your director's Schedule C tax form, ask to see her basement, her garage or her spare room. Then count the number of unopened boxes with the pink logo on the side. You'll be shocked.

For those consultants who are only ordering what they sell, that's better than stocking up, but please remember that you only keep your 50% ordering privilege with a $200 minimum WHOLESALE order every three months. And yes, you can make a little cash by doing that, but don't kid yourself that you've made $100 with a $200-sales skin care class. You must deduct your expenses, which include Section 2 items, product shipping, gas to & from the class and deliveries, hostess gifts/discounts, guest gifts/discounts, etc.

Please go to the director section of the comments to see what really goes on behind the scenes in director-world. You will be shocked.

Also, I did a front-page three-part series a few months ago on "where does the debt come from?" Try typing that in the search bar (or even just "debt" to find it. It's worth reading if you think that women are simply poor money managers for going into debt with MK. Again, you'll see the real story, and why debt is inevitable in this business.

Oh, wonderfully_made, I had a lesbian in my unit at one time. She loved makeup!

Man, interesting reading this morning. Where have all these bots come from? Did they decided to attack PT instead of doing their booking challenges?

Yes definately look up Pinkpeace's exposee on debt. And for lurking consultants, here is one of the "tactics" used on the career path (there are many) to get the over ordering started...

If you start recruiting, your Sd will get an inventory order. LEt's say you have 3 or 4 on your team. The minute one of your people does any level of star, you will get the call to "Find one more...find two more...whatever you need to do to go on target for your car.." Four team members could have just 800 in, but if you recruit a 5th today who does a Ruby, their will be 3200.00 production in for you...Now pay attention.

Your Director will say, "Do you really want to LOSE all that production? If you find one more and she does even 1200, you could go on target for your CAR!!! To get you in this position we have to inch you up the career path. And the reason we want you in CAR or DIQ is because you will be responsible to find 4K or 4500, that we get to "ride" as our production.

When that 5th recruit comes in and only does a 600...guess what! You have 5 on your "team" and you are only short 200.00 from going "on target"...YIPEE! It makes sense so you do it.

You are now hooked. You have begun the "topping off" production scam that keeps MK living large off your credit card debt.

Month two. Dog gone it, your new recruit isn't ordering and your team only did 2800. What to do what to do!

"You don't want to lose all that production, do you?"

Hey what's another 1200.00....you'll sell it.

Lucky for you nobody held a gun to your head.

Koukla said, "1. Have you seen the Applause magazine? And, the amounts of money women are making as a supplement to their husband's income?"

Looking at Applause, all it takes to get into the top 100 of an entire national area is $5,000 a month in commissions (that's before chargebacks, expenses, and taxes), not spendable money.

The rest of the "cream of the crop", the top 2%, are making LESS than that, and are in debt up to their eyeballs trying to make it work.

I could have more spendable money than all but a few MK directors working for the local Trader Joe's. And I wouldn't have to recruit my customers to get a promotion or a raise.

Sooooo Glad -
Transcribe the voice mails (if you still have them) and post them on the discussion board.

We'll mock them and point out the scripts they were using to make you stay in.

Koukla1 said: "MK doesn't change their products to get you to buy more, they do it for marketing purposes, duh! Every other cosmetic product changes their packaging just like MK does!"

The "duh" offended me enough to make a quick comment. Wait until you get 25 of one thing and the company changes the packaging. Then multiply that by many more items that suddenly appear in different packaging!

Did Harley Davidson ever change it's logo - colors - packaging and so forth? Did UPS? Did Mary Kay?

Mary Kay went from beautiful pink containers with gold script. No need to ever change that! The main objective of corporate identity is to achieve a favorable image among the company's prospects and customers - loyalty;
identity; the closer the public's perception of a company is to how
the company defines itself!

Mary Kay changed to grey - to pink - to black and everything in-between! The product identity is gone! The management is indecisive and week.

hello everybody
I'm from China,i'm also a victim
it's even darker in china.
fortunately,i serached ie,and find pinktruth.
i hope one day i will make a websit that transltated into chinese to warn innocent female to get away from marykay.

Great points, Lazy!

[quote]I generally make about $20 per hour with MK, that's a lot more than minimum wage![/quote]

That could be fine, if you didn't need to make the famous "executive income". Frankly, that works out to about $41,000 per year on an annualized 40-hour week.

But I know how the Mary Kay math works. You stand up at the meeting and say, "I sold $200 in two hours, and my profit was $100! It only took me two hours, so I made $50 an hour!"

However, you must take into account product discounts, hostess credits, Section 2 supplies, travel expense, etc. And let's not forget the multiple hours it takes to find new leads, contact those leads, finally get a hostess, coach the hostess, preprofile the guests, follow up with everyone and deliver the products.

I'd also like to know how long koukla1 has been in the business. After the initial bookings from friends and family dry up, she's going to run into that brick wall of "no."

Other points to consider:

1. You cannot count on consistent selling appointments. There will be long stretches of "sales drought," especially at certain times of the year and in MK-saturated areas.

2. Your sales will rarely be non-discounted, especially at skin care classes. You have to provide hostess credit, discounts or MK gifts in order to incentivize someone to hold an appointment with you. In addition, your director will recommend discounted product sets to encourage sales at your appointments, and some of them give you very little profit at the end of the day.

I'm afraid that if you really sit down and honestly analyze the effort you put into a successful skin care class, and subtract your expenses, you're not even close to $20 an hour.

This cracks me up! Reading the posts from these IBC's reminds me of when my 12 year old tries to give me advice - HA! So similar because they have no idea what they are really talking about, not enough experience to have any perspective, and frankly, WAY out of their league without even realizing it.

So to the consultants, thank you. Being a lazy car driver with the top production in my area really must have not taught me much. And getting to know all the Directors, Senior Directors, Executive Senior Directors, and those who went through NIQ on this site just never "enlightened" me the way your scripted, idiotic, and completely naive statements have!

I guess I will give up my J.O.B. - which by the way pays more than most NSD's (and I have no business expenses), and stop consulting businesses on marketing and strategy development in my spare time (since I must not know anything about running one), and start selling crap out of the trunk of my car, spend my time trying to get people not to run away from me, and sitting around waiting for the "no shows" not to show...

Seriously, are you all just sitting at an "open house" with no clients surfing the web or what? When I was in MK - I was too busy working on IPA's to have time for this. Isn't this the last week of the month??

Hello, mkvictim_china, and welcome to PT.

Please come over to the Discussion Boards and let's have a conversation about what it is like to be involved in this MK scam in China. We would love to hear what goes on, to know if it is the same boatload of crap as it is here.

MKGirlyGirl; Koula1:

I have been in MK for 10 years. Was a BC for 6 years and became SD for 3 years. I had the same outlook as both of you for the first 6 years of my MK experience and because of that outlook
decided to become a SD. I had a SD who
was like my MK Mom. I trusted her completely. She appeared to give me sound advice and didn't push me to do things that I felt uncomfotable with.
She never pushed me to purchase huge amounts of inventory or attend events
that I couldn't afford. She did suggest that "Those That Show Up, Go UP"
and that "You can't sell from an EMPTY
Wagon". I grew to look up to her and saw the lavish lifestyle life that she led. I do want to mention that her husband is a Supreme Court Judge and has had a law practice for many years. No children to boot, so their lifestyles seemed very impressive to me. She eventually became a NSD during the time I decided to go into DIQ and became a SD myself.
She acted in her same calm, postive,
non-pushy way. I made the decision to become a SD because of the example of her lifestyle that she set for me. I was a single Mom with two children and a fulltime job and a missing in action
father of my children. There was never enough money to go around. I have a very good job and make a nice salary but
the money just was not enough to live on. My SD continually reminded me of how much money I could make as a SD and how I could Enrich my Children's Lives.
Based on her continued description of how wonderful our lives would become, I finally made the SD decison. During my DIQ period I had a long term dear friend for many years join my DIQ team.
She took right off and recruited 7 or 8 women herself to help me achieve DIQ.
I can quite honestly tell you that without her, I would have gone insane
and probably would not have finished DIQ. She and her team were great sales people. She ordered the inventory she need to supply her customers and she recruited and was always there for me.
My good friend!! Upon finishing DIQ
and finally becoming a SD, I had to go to my SSD's or NSDs by then, office for her Personal SD Training. First, we had to go to a beauty salon. One of her choice only. Why? To get my hair cut and dyed because, she didn't want to hurt my feelings or anything but she didn't have the heart to tell me that I didn't look like Director material. It was her gift to me. I am not an ugly person. I've dressed professionaly for years and have a great wardrobe. I've never had any indication that I wasn't stylish or unkempt. That should have been a warning to me. Later we came back to her home for the training.
#1 on the Agenda: New Rules: Separate
yourself from the best friend that got you through DIQ. I was shocked. I wanted to know why??? My SSD told me that I could no longer associate with her because, she didn't want my friend to know what it was like to be a SD. My goal should now be to get all my team members to become SDs. I remember
feeling totally uncomfortable and getting a sick feeling in my stomack and then I asked "What Do You Mean"?
and then she told me how difficult, time consuming, stressful, and totally awful a SDs life REALLY is, but on a postive note you have the ability to make a ton of money, if you work 24/7.
I asked her about her lavish life style
and it became pretty clear that it pays to have a husband who's a judge. Three year later and $34,000 in inventory sitting in my MK office. I want both of you to know that the picture my SD painted for me was a total lie. I resgned as SD 1 year ago and am still a consultant because I have SOOOOO much inventory and I need to sell it although, I mind as well give it away,
because it's not flying off the shelves.
How did I aquire so much inventory? Because I had a WONDERFUL SSD set such a great picture of the Career Opportunity for me. Especially the SD opportunity. Once I became a SD, my life became a LIVING Hell. And that SD (NSD) that was so kind, supportive, calm, not pushy, became the real person that she really was. I just couldn't see the truth because of the brainwashing (pink fog) I was in as a consultant just like you two. Oh- I forgot to mention - as far as "Enriching
My Children's Life". They didn't see me for about three and a half years except minutes in the morning and minutes in the evening before bed and
at dinner, which was usually fast food because I never had time to cook anymore. Also their college funds were "Enriched Right Out of Their Lives".

Hey - I have an idea!!! You ladies think MK is to GREAT sooo Enriching.
Why don't you BOTH try becoming a SDs
and come back and post your "Enriching
Experience". If you're MK lives are so great. what are you both even doing in PT??? Get a Reality check.

2pink4me...your story sounds just like mine...I signed my agreement in the fall of 2001. I only signed up so that I would have the ticket to the skin care that I had learned to love, as any consultant that I had seemed to fall off the face of the earth when I wanted to buy more. I did not attend meetings at first, and then one night thought that I should go to check out the new Christmas line - that was the beginning. In June of 2002, I had completed the Court of Sales (Court of Debt). Christmas of 2003 was a blur of open houses, skin care classes, and recruiting. As nobody else in my unit would help my Director in any way, I helped her with craft fairs, markets and bridal fairs..and soon found myself in DIQ! By March of 2004, I was a brand new Sales Director laying out $4k for a trip to Dallas, and driving a brand new shiny Grand Am, the whole time fighting with my husband about selling our vehicle (which was paid for). I went to Dallas, and in June completed the Court of Sales, and the Court of Recruiting. By this time, I had about $25K worth of product on my shelf that I loaned, traded and sold to consultants as well as the 150 or so customers I had. I worked from Grand Am to Grand Prix to Cadillac, and continued to fight with my husband every step of the way... My relationship with my SD ended one night after a joint meeting. She had been really rude to me during the meeting (performance) and I wanted to talk to her about it. When we sat down at the table, and I asked her what I had done to piss her off, she told me that by coming a Sales Director, and taking all the high producers like myself, I basically had ruined her life. I walked out of that meeting room crying my eyes out. I hung on for the next few years. It was during a trip to the accountant that tipped me over the edge. She leaned across the desk and showed me on paper what my business looked like. It was a hard slap in the face. I came home that day, looking at the now $40k worth of inventory in the office, and decided right there that I couldn't go on anymore. I had been treated horribly at Seminar by my National (totally humiliated me) that previous June, I had a SD who wouldn't talk to me anymore, and a nice $30k debt on my credit card. That was it. I resigned my position with the Company, sent a letter to my unit, my National and my SD telling them I was done. I recieved a nasty nasty nasty letter from my National,which just confirmed what I had thought all along. Here we are now...$20k worth of debt to pay off, $30k worth of inventory in the basement, 1/3 of it so obsolete that I need to just garbage it. I am with you - still a consultant to try and get rid of this crap and help pay the debt, still fighting with my husband, and hating Mary Kay more than ever, but carrying on because I HAVE TO. I wish I could go back to that evening I went to see the Christmas product - I should've cancelled the sitter and stayed home.

Ooohhwhattodo.

WOW!!!! There are so MANY of US!! You'd really have to become a Sales Director to appreciate the expanse of lies that are dished out to consultants at all those Unit Meetings (Fog Control) Why do you think they want you to go? How about the common one?
"Always listen to your Director?" You know I used to think that it was because
they had more knowledge than you and because they've already been where you're at. I never realized until I became a Director myself what it really meant!! "Always listen to your Director" meant buy inventory when she asks you to. I also became a car driver and found out after the fact that the car was not FREE. You know how many times I had to pay the entire co-pays. I worked myself right into STRESS CITY!!!!! I figured out that I could have bought and paid cash for at least two vehicles in what it cost me to keep that MK car.
Needless to say 80% of my $34,000 inventory is packaged in the pink and white way and is almost impossible to sell. Having a 10 day PINK Friday Sale.
Huge discounts on everything. 50% - 60% discount. My GOAL in Life is to see all my MK shelves EMPTY and then I will be forever free of the MK curse.

Ooohhh - you're very lucky that your husband only argued with you and didn't leave you. MK has got to be the #1 divorce grounds in this country. Thankfully, I am single and didn't have to put a husband through something as awful as this. I wish you the best recovery from my heart. I know how you feel.

"She never pushed me to purchase huge amounts of inventory...she did suggest that..."You can't sell from an EMPTY Wagon..."

With all respect towards your friend, 2pink, her behavior is a lesser form of pushiness. Carrying inventory in Mary Kay is NOT required, yet MK leaders on all levels parrot the "empty wagon" line and pass out the "You can't open a store with a can of tomatoes and a 5lb bag of sugar!" flyer on a regular basis. This pushing of inventory escalates clear up to tactics which involve MK leaders explaining only the top three levels of inventory (as taught by NSD Stacy James) or instructing directors to "Pull inventory as soon as they sign." (as taught by NSD Dacia Wiegandt)

Some folks in MK - like your friend - sell inventory packages using "gentler" means, while others like Dacia Wiegandt flat-out go for the jugular. Either way, the same manipulation is being used. After all, directors have car/prize/production quotas that sure as sugar aren't going to meet themselves.

"My goal should now be to get all my team members to become SDs....she told me how difficult, time-consuming, stressful, and totally awful a SDs life REALLY is..."

I love that one. "The director's lifestyle is stressful, time-consuming, and difficult, but you should make it your goal to push all your team members into that very lifestyle!" All hail that radiant Mary Kay Go-Give spirit!

[IMG]http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z227/sportica/mkprettydeadlycopy.jpg[/IMG]

"Go on, become a director! You can drive a "free" car and enrich your childrens' lives!"

Powerful, powerful stories, ladies!
Why is it that we are inclined to think that we were the only one that had the same experience several SDs are relating here? You can see that except for a few details, the stories are the same!!!
Lies, deception, debt and great loss! That my friends is the Mary Kay Story.

For any IBC who is reading here today, you better listen up because Mary Kay is an equal opportunity abuser and as has been stated here....
IT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU TOO!

Think about this critically. How could so many of us have the same experience and you still think you will excape?
Girlfriend, you won't!

2pink4me & ooohwhattodo, thank you both for sharing your stories. Each time I read one of these posts from an ex-SD I tell myself how lucky I am that I left MK before I got myself into serious CC debt. These IBC's coming on here boasting about how great MK is,really have no idea about all of the "hidden secrets" that go along with being a SD. However, they wouldn't be here if they didn't have some doubts-just like I did. I remember a piece of advise that was told to me by one of my SD's offspring "always be sure to stay on the inside of MK". At the time I really had no idea what she meant by that, but I'm sure what she was really was telling me was stay true to the MK cultish ways and don't go to the outside cuz you just might learn what a farce & scam MKC really is. Little does she know that was the one comment that started me to ask questions and when the responses I got didn't add up I did my own research and found PT. Knowlege is power and I am so glad I learned that MKC is nothing more than a pyramid scheme.
PT ROCKS!

I've been out of MK for about 2 years now. I've never regretted the decision to leave. Never made a dime, and yes, I "did what was suggested" *gag*

My director has not spoken to me since I quit. No love lost, just thought I'd mention that because it's most likely what will happen to you when you come to your senses and get out.

I think we need a debt meter along with the product return meter. Of course, I'm afraid the debt would far surpass the returns and would really depress us even worse. It is so hard to read these posts knowing the havoc that Mary Kay caused in everyone's lives. Even when you quit, the debt follows you.

Wow..if anyone needed any more proof..I don't know where they are going to get it. These stories are the faces behind the pink mask. And now China chimes in. That just about made me sick. MK has exported financial abuse to the Pacific Rim.

Just so you knwo.....MKGirlyGirl - I agree with Koukla 1 & mkmama3!

If you are not going after the career path then your director will just leave you alone and only call to remind you to place your $200 order to stay active. Watch how she will change if you decide you want the car or the suit after all. Then when you have become a Team Leader you will see how she pushes for you to be DIQ. You will be pressured to go to every event because no DIQ would miss Seminar or a Red Jacket training. If she has some MK ladies working for DIQ then she will make a large commission check. You will see her try and get you to have a full store because it would be crazy to be in DIQ without a full store of inventory. I honestly did not see the greed until I reached Team Leader.

My SD didn't really leave me alone because I was a good little consultant who ordered to get the full wagon (and more). And, there were the e-mails and phone calls telling me to start recruiting my good customers. If I wasn't making money as a consultant (and I wasn't), how could I really recruit someone? I stayed in for too many years thinking I could make money. I spent too much money on open houses, buying leads, and going to offices giving away samples. My SD kept after me telling me that I had leadership qualities. No I didn't. The only quality I had was that I listened to her and kept ordering.

[quote]6. MK doesn't change their products to get you to buy more, they do it for marketing purposes, duh! Every other cosmetic product changes their packaging just like MK does!
[/quote]

Koukla1, how do you explain Clinique? The first bottle of Clarifying Lotion 2 I bought in 1976 is almost identical to the bottle I bought two weeks ago. The only major change is from a glass to a plastic bottle. The logo and colors are still the same.

Mary Kay changes product lines and packaging to force IBCs to purchase more, plain and simple. Woe to the IBC who doesn't have a full store of the new mineral line. She isn't working her business properly. She isn't taking care of her customers.

My pink eyeshadows look stupid in the silver compact but I refused to cave in to the color change. I'm not going to invest $$$ in the mineral line because it will change ... again.

The truth is that Mary Kay doesn't have a clue about product branding. They spend a lot of time and money trying to compete with the top lines, but end up getting lost due to a lack of consistent branding while the 2% listed in Applause make executive pay at the expense of the remaining 98% who are purchasing outdated inentory to meet quotas and maintain production.

I got nailed on the skirt issue. My SD wasn't holding weekly meetings so she sent me to someone else's and this phoney woman told me that it was the MK culture to look sharp and that could only be done in a skirt. (I refuse to wear skirts or dresses.) I wear professional dress pants/slacks and shirts. So I ignored her and the next week she had another snide comment that women who weren't in skirts weren't professional. I continued to wear pants and the third meeting, in front of everyone she told me that I had to show up in a skirt but it would be okay not to wear pantyhose. NOBODY I've talked to agrees with that sexist and antiquated view of skirts. So I went to a different SD's weekly meeting and crap, she was saying how sharp women look in skirts - it was creepy because it was so scripted! There was one woman at that meeting in a skirt and she looked absolutely dumpy. She had on this floral mess that draped way down in the front and her sweater was caught in the back - yeah, she was sharp alright. Not. But at least she wasn't being hassled, so maybe she was sharp and I'm the dimwit.

Say, do the SD's get a commission or a prize if they get you to seminar?

[quote]Really? My family and friends don't respect me and my business? That's why they are so proud of me and are booking parties and giving me all their friends and relatives as customers...really?
[/quote]

That is because they care about you and want to show support. Not because they necessarily believe in MK or respect what you are doing. (Note, I did not say they didn't respect you as a person.) I am guessing you are fairly new in if you and are booking from your warm client base of family and friends? What happens when you have booked and recruited all that you can from them and that line runs dry?

..and when you get out...they tell you the truth.

[quote]10. My sales director never pressured me to buy more than I was able...[/quote]
Did you buy $600 or more without her pressuring you? If so, I'm sure she was just glad for the easy sale. My SD tried very hard to sound like she wasn't pressuring me, and I didn't feel pressured -- I just wanted to do what was right for "my business." But looking back, she laid it on, just subtly. And what I did, wasn't best for me at all.

[quote]9. Many prizes and free gifts from my director were actually very nice.[/quote]
That's nice. I was never a director, but I gave some pretty nice gifts to potential customers and recruits as well. Of course, when I look at how little business I got back from doing that, I shouldn't have spent the money.

[quote]8. You can advertise in many ways: newspaper ads, fishbowls, listing your website on any webpage you like, etc....[/quote]But only in the ways Mary Kay decides are okay, not the ones that are best for you. You are not allowed to put anything on your own web page other than a straightforward link. If you advertise in the newspaper (which is expensive, and not typically effective enough to justify doing it), you must choose from a few texts that Mary Kay has approved. You're not allowed to write it yourself. Fishbowls are time-consuming, get very little in the way of results, and are expensive if you offer real prizes, and deceptive if you claim the Mary Kay facial is prize.

[quote]7. I have met and know plenty of people who don't know a consultant and were happy to meet with me and have fun get togethers![/quote]How many is plenty? How often are able to book and hold events? How much do you sell at these events?
[quote]6. MK doesn't change their products to get you to buy more, they do it for marketing purposes, duh! Every other cosmetic product changes their packaging just like MK does![/quote]
Funny, I went more than 5 years between buying a Chanel eye liner, and buying another one, but the look had changed hardly at all. Not enough that I'd have noticed if I got the old kind. Whether the product changes are intended to get consultants to buy unnecessary product or not, they often have that result.

[quote]5. I am not required to wear a skirt, pantyhose or closed toed shoes to the meetings and trainings I have attended, they just want you to look professional![/quote]
Neither was I. But the longer I was in, the more strongly they encouraged the kind of clothes I didn't already own, and didn't like enough to wear for any other purpose. And it turns out, I could not take a tax deduction for those clothes I bought expressly for doing Mary Kay.

[quote]4. I have had a fine time selling my MK and making profit! You buy at wholesale and sell at retail. If no one can sell the products, then why has it been around for 45 years???[/quote]
Sure, some people buy them. But not enough to make a reasonable profit for most of us. It's been around for the same reason Amway's been around for 40 years -- there are enough consultants willing to buy the product (for wholesale plus sales tax on retail) to keep the company in business.

[quote]3. Really? My family and friends don't respect me and my business? That's why they are so proud of me and are booking parties and giving me all their friends and relatives as customers...really?[/quote]
Many of my family and friends were very supportive, and others just looked the other way until I came to my senses. They pretty much all knew there was no sense in telling me how these things really were, until I figured it out for myself.

[quote]2. I spend plenty of time at home with my boyfriend and with my family and at my job,etc. You don't have to attend all of the events, it is not required. You pick and choose what you need and want.[/quote]
But still, "if you are serious about your business", most of use did experience a lot of pressure to attend events we didn't need to. But it wasn't really the events that was so time-killing. It was the amount of time spend trying to book events and recruit people.

[quote]1. Have you seen the Applause magazine? And, the amounts of money women are making as a supplement to their husband's income?[/quote] Yes, I have. In fact, looking at the numbers from Applause, and breaking them down was one of the things that made me realize Mary Kay was not such a great a deal. Although the Applause magazine only lists top orders and top commissions, many of those [url=http://www.pinktruth.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1609&Itemid=48]top earners didn't make much
[/url]much.

[quote]I generally make about $20 per hour with MK, that's a lot more than minimum wage![/quote]
Please provide a listing of your what hours you spent on what activities, along with your sales and expenses, if you want to make a claim about hourly earnings. Otherwise, we're going to naturally assume that you neglect to count some of the time, and some of the expenses, as most Mary Kay reps do.

Incognito: When I read your post, I was thinking......you must be my niece by marriage ! ha, ha, just kidding, but really, I gave everyone MK crap for gifts. I'm embarassed about it now !

Very interesting testimonials from former MK distribs.

I thought the monthly auto-ship was about 100$, you know the average.

But it's actually much more than that!

(shudders)

I think I'm gonna learn a lot from this website.

wow- look what I miss when I'm gone all day!

To the IBC's that spewed their thoughts earlier - girls, just give us a break. When you walk in my shoes, or any other former sd on here, you'll see how messed up your thinking really is. All it takes is time. Time for your SD to start the pressure, time for your SD to "encourage" you to stretch - just beelieve in your goals and they will happen. It's a bunch of crap that they are asking you to swallow. Life as a SD isn't fun. It's stressful, plain and simple. You will never know who your true friends are- because NO ONE reveals anything that's remotely close to truth about their businesses. They only want to show the 'positive side' - well sweetie, there's a whole lot of negative that goes along with it.

I walked into my SD position - no cc debt. Walked out of it 7 yrs later with $22K in debt. It wasn't because of the purchasing of the product - it's all the other expenses they never tell you about- suits, shoes, slammin' hair do's, manicures, pedicures, hosery, career conferences, brunches, seminars, leaderships, fall retreats, monthly director meetings, monthly career brunches, weekly facility rentals, prizes, supplies, recruiting coffees, recruiting lunches, big girls club events (monthly), quarterly star events, end of the year events, end of the year prizes, seminar gown, leadership outfits, NSD Area jackets, etc - good grief the list goes on and on! These are the things that are NEVER spoken about before you achieve directorship - if I had even an inkling- I never would have done it.

I'm sure I'm missing a lot of other expenses- but these were the ones that I personally experienced.

Reason #11. It is really embarrassing to be the dingbat Mary Kay lady, stalking everyone and pretending she's a big-time businessperson.

And watching everyone find excuses to get the hell away from you as fast as they can. That is, unless they are embarrassed for you. Then they just stand there dumbfounded, with confused looks on their faces.

Aha! Those are the ones to hit up! They just need more information, right?

koukla1, I sort of said the same thing you did when I first came to pink truth. I got royally reamed (sp?). I had had lots of concerns in the beginning of my business years ago. Whenever I tried to talk to my director about my concerns, they were always glossed over; or I was told to not be negative. Since when did thinking for oneself become a negative thing? Only in MK. I told my director I had been to this site and that I wouldn't recruit. She said, "so don't, just sell". She also referred to this site as negative.

Bottom line - when more of the pink fog lifts from your eyes - you will see this company isn't so rosey. And you can come back here, these ladies are really nice - and can be patient.

If I don't order next month, I will be terminated. Hmmm, $200 for MK; or for my family????? That's a no-brainer.

Ask to see your directors tax return. There's the proof.

Enjoy your Thanksgiving Day everyone.

Holy cow, this thread is hilarious!!!

I love how it all starts with counter-viewpoints from a few kaybots who spent their last unit meeting strategizing a "Pink Truth Takeover" (instead of getting their Income-Producing Activities done....tisk, tisk girly-girls!! )

But I also love all of the raw, real and TRUTHFUL information shared by defogged women from ALL over...hello???? - - China?!?! And kaybots think we're just a small exclusive group of losers who got the "short end" of the MK stick.

And last, but certainly not least....Dejay! That post was PRICELESS! I'm gonna be laughing over that one for a long time!

To the Kaybot SWAT team: You girly-girls come on back to see us - can't wait to hear your opinions again when you're defogged!

I totally agree with all of the 10 reasons why u shouldn't do mk,the situation in China is even worse.Mary kay is planning to move its bussines to China,enlarge its scale in Hangzhou.Because China has the most population in the world.And lots of people are attracted by the pyramid figure,the NSD.More and more female are cheated to become a mk bc,and invested all their money in it,dreaming to get the money,the pink car,the oversea travel for fee.

Sadly,just very few people realize it's a big con,and no female doing MK knows English and never know what is going on in U.S.They have been cheated like this,in America,everyone knows MK,everyone will respect MK lady.U feel so noble doing mk in america.SO dear,work hard,in the future,in china,our situation will supass us.
And everyone of us will be the richest lady than people who go to work 9 to 5.

MKvictim_China...how did you figure out the truth? What happened to you?

i had been in MK for 2 years,and lost much money cheated by my SD.Actually very few woman will pick up ur phone,or they even hang off when they heard u would like to invite them to scc.U almost lose ur friends's and parents' trust.It's difficult to do marykay,but the SD and NSD would say,dear,hold on,work hard to find more people,u will have more possibilities.Actually they do not earn money from sales,they earn their checks by recruiting,Some of the SD would sell products on ebay,taobao,or a secrect supplier,by discount,from 40% to 70%,which u would never know.

In mk,there are different levels,each level has different trainings,which teaches people on the level to lie to ur team members.And faking a beautiful dream to those in the bottom of pyramid to work hard for them.

And there are unreal sales number and people they make secretly,borrowing other people's security card to become a bc,and sell them by discount secretly.

When u don't want to invest your money in it,the SD will take you to the party,or the training,to encourage u,taking u see the succsussful people with pink car and house,then u invest ur money again.And the nightmare begins.

Another way is that the sd will never tell u how much they lost,they will tell you how much they earn,or sometimes they will show u their checks,to make u believe if u follow with them,u will get that much too.actually they will invest more money,half than their earining in it to maintain their uint.

and more..... will write more in the future

optimistic - well sweet girl, I could say the same about you & your pink foggers. Let me ask you this - how long have you been an IBC? How many recruits do you have? How many stars on your ladder? How about rings- have you done the national court of sales?

I've been in a long time, not all is good in the pink world. I won't say all is bad- but when you go blindly along, you'll get sucked in and sucked dry.

Keep going - do what you want to do with this business, but come on back around and show us your schedule C (that's the one you put all your deductions on - just in case you aren't IRS literate) Show us the bottom line, then we'll talk.

In other words -show me the $.

Yes Optimistic! You're right. It IS the same posts time and again. Because $D's and N$D's keep conning women out of their hard earned money. Thank You for agreeing with me.
No, I don't get sick of posting the same responses. I am helping women get out of MK. It is very exciting seeing women reclaim their lives and get their money back.
And Yes Optimistic, You're right again! It IS sad when you're in MK. But once you decide to leave - everything starts getting better.
I am so glad you can admit that MK is the same con job year after year. Admitting that there is a problem is the first step.
Good Luck to You on getting out of MK and getting your money back.
I am so proud of you.

Optimistic...if you know that we post the same things over and over again, it's because you keep coming here over and over again and that makes all of us who are out of the fog VERY happy!

We know it's hard. We know the feeling of admitting that the dream is a lie. That something in us allowed us to be duped by this heartless company. It's hard to realize that your SD and NSD care NOTHING about you as a person and as soon as you say goodbye, they'll prove they were never your friend by cutting you off - amputating you from their lives.

It's hard...we know. The anger, the grief, the tears, the shame and the regret. But it's completely worth it. This company sucks and you will never make any real money unless you lie, cheat, steal, and are willing to watch women dig themselves into an emotional and financial hole that can take years to dig out of - which is what SDs and NSDs do everyday.

Keep coming. Keep reading. And when you're ready, send the crap back and move on with your life.

Great thread Tracy! Ladies-tomorrow when you gather to give thanks for all you have, be sure to add Tracy and all the frequent contibutors to PT to your prayers. Pink Truth has enriched so many lives! Give thanks for escaping the pink bubble. Happy Thanksgivng to all!

Optimisticconsultant said:

[quote]Same old posts time and again...Don't you ever get sick of posting the same responses? So sad...[/quote]
So if your so sick & tired of reading these posts and responses why are you here? I suspect you are not so optimistic anymore. That was me a few years ago....just saying.

Yogachick
Not only was Thanksgiving Day Mary Kay's favorite day but she also died on Thanksgiving Day the year I joined MK.
Eeeeeeery huh?

MKvictim_China:
Can you translate some of this site's articles into Chinese and put them on a Chinese blog?

It sounds like they need it over there.

I made a list very similar to this one the day that I decided to resign as a consultant.

In reference to #10, I ended up spending $600 on initial inventory, which was way too much, but my director talked me into it. She compiled the order for me and stuck me with things like Soothing Eye Gel, which I was never able to sell. She tried very hard to pressure me into moving up to the next package, but I said no. I wasn't even sure if I was going to like selling Mary Kay or not and already she was trying to get me to invest a lot of money.

In reference to #3, I found it to be so awkward to try to sell to family and friends! They were polite, but not interested in buying anything. I was disappointed that they weren't willing to help me, but now I get it. When your family and friends are involved in MLMs it's annoying.

On my own list I have a problem with the "God first, family second..." line. I'm an atheist and I felt that the company didn't respect that. Also, one of my points for discouraging anyone from becoming a consultant is the price of products. Trying to pretend that $18 for cleanser is reasonable is really hard!

Everyone was surprised when I said that was becoming a consultant because they said that it didn't fit my personality. Well, they were right. I feel so much better now that it's out of my life.

RedMeansGo

Good for your choice in quiting while you were still ahead and believe me $600.00 is way ahead. Don't know if you still have your Indulge Soothing Eye Gel but it's REALLY great to put on bug bites, Mosquito bites etc. Takes down the swelling and soothes the itch.
Keep it in the fridge and it feels even better. Works on all kinds of swellings. Not just for the eyes.

yogachick wrote:
[quote]To all of those consultants AND directors out there...if this is your passion GO FOR IT!!![/quote]

Basically, what yogachick is saying is...if financial suicide is your passion, then hey, go for it! :s

Lurkers, what people seem to forget is that you did not end up in the business b/c "selling MK" was your passion. You tried an opportunity b/c you were told that MK will help you get to your passions and dreams. MK was never the actual passion. It's funny how they change "your own passion" so quickly. I have yet, to meet someone that, "truthfully", has lived their dream and made it there b/c of MK.
You see, in MK you are dealing with women that treat, look at, and worship Mary Kay Ash as if she is their God. They've been convinced that MK is their passion. They also treat and worship the company as if it is their so-called Heaven. These women must meet a production every month(which involves your money) to be able to stay in their so-called heaven. So they will do whatever it takes to remain there, which includes lying, cheating and deceiving others out of their money.

Until the final days of her existence, she cooked the meal for her entire family.
Stuff like this constantly gets repeated over and over again so you will see Mary Kay as this wonderful, beautiful women. I'm not saying that she isn't but I cannot say that she is, either. Did any of you see her cook Thanksgiving dinner on her final days? Is it on video? No, you are taking someone's word for it. There are women that come on here and say, "I've met Mary Kay and she's a wonderful person." Yeah, well how many times did you meet her? Again, meeting a person once or twice means nothing, especially when money is involved. Heck, you thought your NSD and/or SD was wonderful, too, and you met her a lot more times then Mary Kay Ash!

looks as if "yogachick" and her ilk are bending more than their bodies over this
Hold those poses, pink poseurs!

punchie, you're right! well said.

Just because your 1st or 2nd impression of a person was good, doesn't always mean it's the way it always is. Now, I'm not saying MKA was evil, but what her company has turned into is less than heavenly. I do believe that MKA was a workaholic, driven to succeed. That's the example that she set for her NSD's and SD's. To always be "on". I can tell you, I always resented feeling like I had to meet people while I was on vacation and pursue business with them. Also, the stress of being on vacation when I knew that back home things were slowing down, because I wasn't around! It's a catch 22.

Like I said earlier- not everything in MK is bad- but so much of the leadership that propels consultants along - don't always have the IBC's interest first- it's about their monthly paycheck, and to maximize it.

[quote]Same old posts time and again...Don't you ever get sick of posting the same responses?[/quote]Sometimes. But the fact that people continue to post the same arguments and comments here shows that it's needed, and I'm just thankful I can do something to help.

I did some more in depth writing about why some of us stay so long [url=http://www.pinktruth.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1899&Itemid=111]here[/url]. And yeah, some of it is sad.

Hi everyone, I'm having trouble figuring out how to quote, so please bear with me as I comment on several of your posts:

www.touchofpinkcosmetics.com was mentioned- the site is shut down. That's actually what brought me to your site (I had sent a client there who was looking for the old happiness fragrance).

pinkpeace, thanks for your post on debt "you'll see the real story, and why debt is inevitable in this business"

2pink4me, thank you for sharing your story- that was powerful!

Yours too, ooohh whattodo.

pinkpinkustink, thank you for clearing up something for me- I hold sales and have no problem staying "active" but I'm not going for the career path and make that clear each time I talk to my upline. I couldn't figure out why my experience seemed to be different from others til I read your post. I'm glad they're not wasting time on me, trying to push me into filling their pockets.

Thanks all of you for sharing your experiences- it's eye-opening to see what the SDs have to go through!

Apparently yogachick sees nothing wrong with a "business model" in which about 99% of the participants lose money. IT'S ALL THEIR OWN FAULT FOR NOT WORKING HARD ENOUGH!!!! Yeah, right.

I really get sick of people defending the indefensible. You defend MK when your own personal experience is that almost no one makes money. Is it the system? Of course it is, and you know it. You know exactly what the deal is with MK if you were a director for 17 years. When are you going to quit lying to yourself?

[quote]I was a car driving director for 17 years. I had a wonderful team of women and a great sr. director. Obviously I worked my business seriously. Having said that, I will say that I never did make the kind of money that I was projected to make. I worked my pink behind off...I actually trained with Mary Kay personally (she was a precious, wonderful woman). However, it just wasn't for me.[/quote]

You worked your behind off for 17 years, never made the kind of money you were told you would, and after all that time decided it wasn't for you? It sounds like you had the typical experience of an ambitious, hard working Mary Kay woman. If it wasn't for you, after having such great support and working so hard for it, then who do you think it is for?

Yogachick said:

[quote]Having said that, I will say that I never did make the kind of money that I was projected to make. I worked my pink behind off...I actually trained with Mary Kay personally (she was a precious, wonderful woman). However, it just wasn't for me. The company is wonderful, the training is something I will use for a lifetime, but the business itself was not my passion.[/quote]

Yogachick, I hear you. I was a car-driving director for 11 years and I never made the fabled "executive income" I was supposed to make. But read your own post: You worked your butt off for 17 years and didn't make money. You tell yourself it "wasn't your passion" as an excuse for your lack of success. But would you have worked any harder if you HAD been passionate about the business? I'm betting no.

Passion has nothing to do with it, and it's not the reason you didn't make the megabucks in Mary Kay. The company is deeply flawed, and part of that flaw is to try to make you believe that, despite nearly two decades of hard work, your small MK paychecks were because you didn't have passion or didn't want it enough.

It's okay that you quit - in fact, it's commendable. I just hope you can take that next step to see that it wasn't your fault. Keep reading. I'm glad you're here.

I read MK's autobiography and I saw this noticed her work ethic bordered on frantic, if not psychotic. She talks about is how SHE worked her behind off and how SHE made lists so that SHE could be the top performer or the goddess of whatever mountain had to be climbed. This is twenty-first century America, we don't want to waste all our time working our tushes off to attain something that keeps moving out of reach. Ack! In the autobiography MK talks about her riches and her success, well duh, that's because she's at the top of the MLM. So we've got millions of women doing MK, one super top dog (MK herself), a handful of NSD's and the rest of us who were lured, guilted, or just plain suckered by good intentions into this MLM.

I'm just feeling so DUPED by the company that I'm venting here. I'm college educated, I have years of retail business experience, I thought this would be a fun thing to do but my SD is nothing more than a constant conduit for criticism. She doesn't do gifts or incentives for reaching a goal, she only says, "hey team, if you don't buy more product then we're going to loose our team status and that will really be bad because you won't have team support." Huh? It's somehow OUR responsibility to buy stuff to maintain the team? And what is team support, asked I. She hemmed and hawed and basically said if we lost the team we wouldn't have the unitnet website. Like I had even used it. Argh. No, make that a double argh because she's a liar. What she really means is that she won't have the "free" car.

Professional woman my behind. All I've seen is a bunch of guilt laying, LIEING (my SD holds fake drawings where women 'win' gift certs - but how is it truly winning if everyone gets one?), foul mouthed women. I mean some of the SD's mouths are disgusting! And they say to be professional and sharp you have to wear a skirt. ARGH!

Hi everyone - I wanted to share my experience that hasn't been tainted by any of the reasons listed on this post.

I've been a consultant for about 3 months now. Thankfully I am under a great Sales Director who never talks to me about Inventory. She was happy with me making an initial $200 wholesale order and has been so helpful in answering questions and giving me great ideas. I also like my Area a lot; the senior and executive sales directors focus on training us in sales and customer service--these trainings give practical ideas that have really helped my sales go up. Also, there is emphasis on the importance of being a valuable resource to our customers with thorough knowledge of products. At every area meeting we get trained on 3 different products, and we are urged to teach our customers about skin care and makeup rather than trying to sell them whatever we can.

Right now I have a customer base of about 60 people with an average of $50/customer in sales. Selling MK part time has worked great for me--I do not invest in inventory except only on my most popular products. My Sales director has been GREAT with helping supply me with a particular eye shadow or lipstick that I do not have for a customer. I also do not spend that much on training because we have training sessions on conference calls and receive handouts of any important training materials we may have missed. The only Section 2 item that I've spent money on are the Look Books and small bags.

I am in Chicago and the market here is not saturated at all. I do not make any cold calls nor do I warm chatter. I received great ideas on how to make sure at least two bookings come out of one party--and this has proven effective. Also, I hosted an info table at a downtown living community and met numerous people who never tried Mary Kay. I have about 20 bookings on my calendar for the next month and half.

As for recruiting - I've never been pressured to focus on this. About 3 of the Senior Sales Directors I can tell DO push this on their units, but mine has not. I've had two people join on as consultants under me--and they were the ones who took the initiative to ask me about selling Mary Kay.

Some of the prizes I've received are cheap looking- but some of them have also been really nice. I was impressed by the swarovski crystal covered pen and swarovski ring. I also received a very pretty jeweled business card holder. I do not buy inventory for the prizes, but it did so happen that my business had gone well enough for me to win them.

I do not hope to ever take this business on full-time because I love my day job in Finance; I don't plan on becoming a Sales Director since I will always sell Mary Kay part-time. I've loved my experience thus far and appreciate my SD, Area, and the training so much.

I'm someone who has had a great experience with Mary Kay and I'm sure there are others who have had similar experiences as me.

[quote]Would you get great customer service from a lowly worker there?[/quote]

What an ignoramus, rude comment! And so typical of the superiority complex displayed by so many women caught up in the Mary Kay hype.

You, drive-by sniper, with your ridiculous derogatory comment, are the poster child for the backstabbing, ugly, look-down-your-nose crap that is rampant in MKC.

[quote]I've been a consultant for about 3 months now.[/quote]

'Nuff said.

CuriousLurker - Welcome to Pink Truth. So you've been in MK a whole 3 months? (Actually, less than that, I think, but we'll go with 3.) You say you've sold about $3000 of products, which would leave you about $1200 if you didn't give any discounts or hostess gifts. That's about $100 a week.

While you may be fine with making $100 per week, I wonder if you've considered the following:

1. That's not much more than pocket change. How much will you be able to sell if you really want to make this a viable job? I assure you that increasing those sales won't be as easy as you probably think.
2. Most of your sales so far have probably been to friends and family who think they are "supporting" you by buying things. The chance that they'll become consistent purchasers from you is low. Good luck finding real, consistent customers to replace them with.
3. You say you haven't been pressured about inventory or recruiting so far. That's great! Don't expect that to continue. You're still new. They're still sucking you in. It won't be long before the pressure starts.

I urge you to not be so quick to judge the women here. Many of us spent years in MK, so we're well aware of what the company is really all about. You've been in for a few months, and you have plenty to still learn.

I invite you to stick around and read some more. And please do tell us over the coming months how things are going.

Thanks Tracy! I've only spent about every other weekend with parties, so it's about a $200-$250 for those weekends I've worked--which is nice extra spending money! Plus, I enjoy hosting the parties. Only 12/60 customers are my friends and family, and I have 20 potential new ones on the books. The rest of the 60 are people who participated in a party and wanted to host their own party / booked a follow-up appt with a friend. I guess I've just lucked out lately?

Yes - will definitely see how it goes in the coming months. I am curious to see if I will ever be pressured to buy inventory or recruit after being in for a while longer.

wow duped, you are one rude person

[quote]Ladies, you are ladies, aren't you?[/quote]

[quote]You hypocrite! You're doing the very thing you accuse Mary Kay of doing! You're bitterness is showing and it's simply not becoming.[/quote]

[quote]Take the high road.[/quote]

[quote]you don't have to hang on to the pain and hurt you're feeling.[/quote]

[quote]clearly it wasn't the right choice for you. But if you continue to harbor such intense rage it will eat you alive. Use this site to vent, but resist the personal attacks. Vent baby, vent.[/quote]

[quote]But remember to nurture your adult side, take care of yourself and in doing so, grow into the beautiful woman you expected to be when you signed up for Mary Kay. You will never find that from Mary Kay, but you can find your beauty elsewhere.
[/quote]

Forgive me for not taking to heart your look-down-your-nose statements.

who DARES dis' my DUPIE!
Truth hurts . . Pink Truth!

Duped - not rude at all. She's calling it like it is.

As a matter of fact, the first comment in this thread calls what we say "opinion".

No, it is not our opinion, it's a fact that 99% of all people in MLMs don't make any money. It's a fact that MK only survives off of consultant orders - not real customers. It's a fact that your SD is lying to you about her acutal earnings and the actual takehome pay of those in the Applause magazine. Don't believe me? Ask to see their Schedule C. And until you are willing to show your schedule C (blacking out your personal info), we're not interested in hearing about what a great business this is. It's as fact that no one in MK makes 50% profit off of every product they sell. If you have just 1 section 2 item and pay for shipping, you have cut into your profit. Not to mention all that holiday wrapping crap consultants are going to buy in the coming weeks - again, there goes your 50%.

And if some of us are bitter, angry, and pissed off, I think it's okay to have those feelings. MK sucks and destroys women lives. That's something to be bitter angry and pissec off about.

freetobeepink: don't forget the wonderful satisfaction guarantee! Try taking something back to Rite-aid.

Rite-Aid, Walmart, and CVS pharmacy will take cosmetics back.

And the staff at my local Walgreens has never tried to recruit me.

"So you tried Mary Kay, it wasn't for you, but the rest of us are enjoying our time providing quality care to others..."

If the snippets from the following NSD e-mail are what you'd consider "quality care to others," I'd hate to see what you consider poor customer service.

How I Explain Inventory

"...if the idea of tying up money in inventory scares her, you have more to overcome, expecially if she talks it over with her husband, and he buys into her fears or is against it.
I feel this is like sending a child in to do a woman's work! It leaves too much to chance..."

"If she says, the $600 [package], I don't say, Yippee! That's wonderful! Instead, I say, Well, that is an ok order but if you could do just a little bit more, say the $1200 here, that would be so much better for you..."

"The thing to remember is this: Either they sell YOU or you sell THEM [on inventory]! So, be aware that you may be able to upgrade someone from their first reaction."

"...it is better if you can find some money from somewhere to get some inventory. Do you have 9 people who would each lend you $200 each for 6 months, 9 people who believe in you enough for you to start your own business...sometimes I say, "What about your grandmother, one of your ex-husbands?"

Kindly keep your "quality care" recruiting-and-frontloading racket, friend, as I can achieve my dreams and serve others without using the ungodly manipulation your precious Mary Kay leaders so often teach.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[IMG]http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z227/sportica/gobbler.jpg[/IMG]

Wow! The Kaybots have descended! We're doing our job ladies. Poking the hornets' nest is bringing them out in defense. But get back in the nest, Kaybots! You don't want to be tainted by the truth.

Unless you do. Actually, I love it that they're here. Because their beliefs are being exposed for what they are: built on sand.

Not a single one of them is able to refute the documented fact that 99% of people who try a business like MK will fail. The business model depends on the failure of the majority.

1% mlm success rate is true and well-documented.

[quote].....people who believe in you enough for you to start your own business...one of one of your ex-husbands?"[/quote]

For real, Scrib?

Oh, that is priceless! ROFLMAO

One of the reasons - you'll be working your "not business" & making others work on Thanksgiving Eve - like the idiot MK person I know -geesh!

Hey girls, I was duped and I feel bad but not bad enough to call people idiots and stupid etc. Let's have some pity on the poor women who are still deceived. We used to be just like them and I know I sure didn't want to be called an idiot. What I needed was for someone to show me the facts and let me make up my own mind. PLEASE STOP NAME CALLING. We need to help these ladies, give them a reason to visit this website and LEARN the TRUTH. It's important and we may be saving them years of financial debt and all kinds of other pain. I can honestly say I'm not happy at all with my MK experience but I'm not willing to stoop to trash talking the fogged. I disagree with what the pro-MK'ers have written, but to me, they are, hm, I guess almost brainwashed.

I will never, ever stop calling Kaybots Kaybots. Sorry!

Kaybots isn't exactly as demeaning as calling someone an idiot. Kaybots is actually a pretty good description. I certainly felt like a bot when I was deep involved. It sure feels good to be free of it now. I was so deceived!!!!

Freetobepink wrote:

[quote]Would you get great customer service from a lowly worker there?[/quote]
Actually, I've gotten great customer service from those lowely people at the department stores, and they've never tried to recruit me or tell me half truths or tried to manipulate me into buying more than I can afford. Also, I've never had a problem returning a product that didn't work for me from my local Target to the high end department store.

You contempt of the men and women who happen to work in retail is shameful. You are not better than they are just as they are not better than you.

The differene between you is that they have set hours each week, they earn a guaranted paycheck and many of them even have benefits. How many of these same things can you claim from your successful business? My guess is not very many.

So instead of coming on here and insulting hard working people in retail why don't you think about all the crap they have to take from customers like you.

I am just about sick with Mary Kay. My MIL and SIL are both in it, and I even catered their debut party, and the crap that spewed out of their directors mouth. My SIL will have her Pink Caddilac delivered this month. I think she has called me 10 times to have a party. I have already had 3 for her, and my cabinets are full of the stuff.The mascara crumbles and gets in my eyes, the eyeliner runs, etc. The only thing I do like is the microdermabrasion kit. She duped a friend of mine into ordering $1200.00 worth. I never say anything negative to her about it, but I just sit back and wait for it to come back and bite her in the butt.I should post her pic of her sitting in the Pink Mary Kay heart shaped tub. I wish her the best,and I will also be there for her when it all comes crumbling down!!

After reading all the madness all I can do is shake my head. Those who are thrilled to be with MK are posting and good for them, but why are they here the day before Thanksgiving? Holiday sales suffering?

Also, I have to wonder if they are trying to justify their decision in joining MK.

Interesting, though...those who are happy with it are those who are working it part time. I say good for them because they haven't fallen for the executive income madness.

I have seen some "helpful" hints for selling during Thanksgiving dinner...when the men go in to watch the game gather up all the gals for a quick skin care class. Is it me or is that one of the rudest things you could do? Getting together with friends and family only to have some chick bust out the Satin hands or the lipgloss with the eau de toilette attatchments.

Ha, thinkingpinkagain!

If you think I'm going to miss out on watching some great football to hold/participate in a skin care class, you are NUTS!

[img]http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/2108960/HowTo-GirlFootball-main_Full.jpg[/img]

You go, ladies! I haven't had time to read all week, and there is nothing more I need to add. Watching intelligent, sharp, and no-longer-taking-it women come out to cross swords is incredibly invigorating. I can't wait to go make my pumpkin pies now! You guys rock.

Oh, and all you kaybots and lurkers who want to poke fun at a couple of stories/opinions from a bunch of "bitter, angry" women? Go read the discussions board, baby. It's not just a couple - it's a massive hoard of women who got used and abused by your favorite pink company. We've all been in your fog, used your words, and had your horror at seeing someone insult the company (in your world, the god). Been there done that. And guess what - now we see it for what it is...what you will understand after a few years with a real tax accountant. Good luck.

still breaking the basic you are right on.........
The truth is that Mary Kay doesn't have a clue about product branding. They spend a lot of time and money trying to compete with the top lines, but end up getting lost due to a lack of consistent branding while the 2% listed in Applause make executive pay at the expense of the remaining 98% who are purchasing outdated inentory to meet quotas and maintain production.

our sons company puts the branding on the products of companies like titleist golf, del mar race track, barona casino, to name a few..........he said he could not even imagine any company changing their branding, that it would be total suicide of the company,,,,.......he said mary kay had the market on pink...and the way mk was printed out....but when they changed their branding........which we all have seen..........other companies went for the scramble to make it, pink, their own. he said now when ya see pink, ya think.........breast cancer...........not mary kay any longer.......he said .......now no one see or hears about mk cuz they have lost their place in the branding society.

when they change they went with the fads.......and are still doing it.........fads come and go quickly see ya mk.

miss mk china! welcome aboard! we need ya here!

duped, i am gonna sic my bull dog, sheriff, on her!
arggggggggg!

manoman, oman

i am so dagone thankful for all of you!
thanks tracy for pulling this site together and all of those that help you!

i would be still drowning in my mk heart sickness
if it wasnt for all of ya.

big ole hug from san diego!

eyeswideopennow,

We are all here to help those in need but if some ashface comes on here calling us names and questions if we are ladies, in a sarcastic manner, then then better be ready for a few of us. If you want to stand there with arms wide open while they're flinging crap...that's your biz, I stand by Dupe with how she handled this particular dumbash kaybot.
BTW, the name kaybot (which I love too, b/c is does suit them well) is still name calling. I feel as if you're saying "No name calling except for..."

As I've said before, come on here with respect and you'll get respect, plain and simple.

Please do not tell Dupe how she should handle the brainwashed drone. Dupe is a well needed strength to this site!

Thank You Tracy for listing the tens reasons for not doing MK. They are also my ten reasons for never, ever buying any MK products from any MK person ever again in my life!

[quote]Hey girls, I was duped and I feel bad but not bad enough to call people idiots [/quote]

Well then maybe you/your family haven't been horribly, horribly harassed by a MK person like I have! And, to the point of viciousness all with the mentality of a 2 year old!

The dictionary describes an idiot as - Foolish

There are those who are simply just in the fog & don't understand the brainwashing of this MLM - & then there are those who know exactly what they are doing when they attempt to purposefully hurt, defraud & HARASS another innocent human being - that my friend is an Idiot

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Man! I love my Punchie!
Carry on Duped! I got a hex ready if you need one.

If a poster comes here wondering and confused, I'll be more patient.
If a poster comes here spewing, I'm gonna spew back.

GotHeart,
I'm always glad to hear from you.
I'm sending a big hug out to San Diego.

bacatcha, ican!

I to was a KAYBOT! Tracy can look up my early posts before I was totally defogged. Kaybot is so appropriate and I am ok with becoming a recovered Kaybot.

P.S. I love that ex-husband statement too, that is funny S*^T!!! LOL

Wow! Not much do I have to add but I do want to comment on what freetobepink wrote.

What training does a MK consultant really get concerning leading a SCC? Does a brand new consultant really have the information and training needed to help someone with skin care advice? I do not think so. Most of the training (and I use that term loosely) I received in MK was on how to book, and recruit, not on product knowledge and how to truly address the skin care needs of a future customer.

My first visit to Sephora was quite different than any MK SCC I ever attended. First of all the sales rep that gave me my complimentary facial had weeks of training before she was put on the sales floor. She also applied all the products as she had a license by the state to do so. Second, one of the make up artist for Smashbox was in the store and she applied the glamour look while teaching me ways to do so. She was not using a diagram designed by a company but her own expertise. It was such a pleasure having people that actually had been trained in the Skin Care and Makeup industry do my facial while I just sat there, learned and enjoyed.

Lastly, I have taken things back for a refund to Riteaide, Walgreens, CVS, Walmart, Sephora, and Dillards. I have never had a problem with returns.

I now use Olay SCC products with some Philosophy and my skin looks better than it ever did on MK. I spend about $12 on cleanser and $15 on moisturizer. Less than if I bought MK with a consultant discount. The Philosophy line is a little more but worth it.

I also use Bare Minerals foundation and love it. I learned to use it at a Sephora free facial.

Now you tell me how a part-time consultant with MK that never goes to meetings and has not received any professional training compares with the sales reps at Sephora, who are well informed, well trained, professionals who never bug me to host parties nor need me to sign up and order inventory. They do not stalk people nor harrass people on the phone.

There just is no comparison. Hope that was polite enough for you.

Dupie, you know I always enjoy your input. You call it like you see it and frankly I find your honesty refreshing.

Pinktruth is not the place for fake, dillusional, sugary sweet comments about MK. If a lurker committs a drive- by on PT they must be prepared to have their comments challenged and personally I find Dupie to be entertaining, informative and funny.

One thing not needed on PT is for a new comer to tell us how to post and respond. If you find us offensive, don't read. There are plenty of other sites to visit to find pro MK garbage. This site exists to share information that won't be found elsewhere.

Dupie, Chop is always in your corner!

chopportunity

Oil of Olay tests on animals.

"A small sample of companies that use the cruel practice of animal testing are Procter and Gamble, Lever Brothers, L'Oreal, Maybelline, Max Factor, Oil of Olay, Pantene, and Cover Girl." http://www.animalforum.com/gcruelty.htm

MK sucks but at least they don't participate in animal testing!!!!!!!

ooopsa got athat address wrong

http://www.animalforum.com/gcruelty.htm

Darn thing still did not copy correctly. There is not supposed to be a space after..... forum. www.animalforum.com/gcruelty.htm

pinkpink ... The only reason Mary Kay can brag "not tested on animals" is because they use products that were already tested on animals by another company.

Federal law requires testing on a certain number of live animals before any substance can be released as an ingredient for food, cosmetics or household product. There is a list of approved ingredients somewhere (it's a huge list). It is not necessary to test a combination of ingredients that have already been approved separately.

Many companies wait for the "big three" (P&G, Lever, L'Oreal) to get something approved, then start using it themselves with a big Tah-Dah about "we do not do animal testing".

It's like claiming you are a vegetarian because you buy your chickens from the supermarket and that nasty guy over there kills his own hens.

[quote]It's like claiming you are a vegetarian because you buy your chickens from the supermarket and that nasty guy over there kills his own hens.[/quote]

Perfect example LG!!!

Gosh, just one more slap in the face "believing MKC".

Unfortunately, the slaps just keep coming b/c they hide things so well.

...and that's why we're here...exposure, exposure, exposure!

At this point the only thing I can take away from this discussion is that the KayBots are angry that the end of the month came so early and are scared that their December commission checks are gonna sukash and there will be no GI Joe with the Kung Fu Grip or Malibu Barbie for the kiddos this year.

MK Sucks. So stop gurgling the pink koolaid already.

P.S. and one more thing...what in the hell gave koukla1 the idea that her Pro-MK slop was wanted or warrented here? This is not an equal opportunity forum where we discuss the merits and good deals that come with MK...this is a forum that exposes the filth and lies that is Mary Kay. Hey koukla1 and all you other dogma dealing money worshipping whores; slither on over to UnitNet.com where you can gush and sukash to your pink hearts content.

Here's some FACTS:

I'm trying to dump my inventory so another de-fogged MKer said go put a table up at the local bazaar and sell stuff there. So I did.

Sales: $134.93
Discounts and sales tax: $-38.40
Subtotal: $96.53

Value of what I sold $150.00
My cost for those products only, nothing prorated for MK's shipping fee $-75.00

Net sales: $21.53

I was at that bazaar for 5 hours which makes my hourly wage: $4.30

I should go to the MK website and plug in the sales numbers to see what they say I made.

Fools.

On another note, I'm REALLY upset about the animal testing stuff. That's just plain wrong! It makes me sick to think that animals have to be used so we can look pretty. Why can't they just test on humans? Drug companies do. They're always advertising for people to participate in studies.

Years ago someone addressed animal testing with Mary Kay and she said she'd rather a rat loose its eye than a human. As if, 1) they only test on rats and not puppies, monkeys, etc, and 2) it's ok to mame an animal in the interests of making money off makeup. I say round up those plastic SD's and test on them!

Oh, and still another note, in case there are lurkers here, the bazaar was filled with people. So don't blame crappy sales on low turnout. Maybe the sales were bad because I REFUSED to pester people and that's pretty much the only way to sell this stuff.

Eyeswideopen - Before a drug gets to human testing, it's gone through several levels of cell culture and animal testing.

[quote]pinkpink ... The only reason Mary Kay can brag "not tested on animals" is because they use products that were already tested on animals by another company.[/quote]

Isn't MK on the 50% cruelty-free list anyway? That list is a joke and a half.

[quote]I was at that bazaar for 5 hours which makes my hourly wage: $4.30
[/quote]

That's what they call executive income.

"Now you tell me how a part-time consultant with MK that never goes to meetings and has not received any professional training compares with the sales reps at Sephora, who are well informed, well trained, professionals who never bug me to host parties nor need me to sign up and order inventory. They do not stalk people nor harrass people on the phone. There just is no comparison."

AMEN to this, Chop! One could replace "part-time consultant" with pretty much every Mary Kay rank on the laundry list and it would still apply.
You will not get a REAL facial from any IBC, Director, or NSD, nor will you be taught how to care for your skin without the use of a Mary Kay product. And I've yet to see anyone in Sephora slap on a jaw-wrenching grin and attack me with the ol' NSD Gloria Mayfield-Banks favorite, "Is there any reason why you wouldn't want to work with me?"

[IMG]http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z227/sportica/sephoraspain.jpg[/IMG]

koukla, I make $15 an hour without expenses selling MAC cosmetics plus $400 a year gratis PLUS %60 off my purchases! Did I mention I get commission AND healthcare AND two weeks paid vacation? Man, guess I am working for the wrong cosmetics company. Also, my product really DOES sell itself, I have people coming to me to get their products.I don't have to hunt and track customers. Having a JOB doesn't suck too bad... Also my product has only had one package change in the last 25 years. Not to mention if it did it wouldn't affect my life or sales one bit.

I have been a "lurker" here for a long time and just have to throw my .02 in here... A "friend" attempted to recruit me for MK back in 2006; so glad I didn't sign on but I have been to a lot of the parties and know about the experiences a LOT of people have had with trying to make money in MK. I am objective because I am not personally involved but I will tell you that I truly believe that MK is not a good business opportunity for many reasons.

First, you learn in basic economics that a saturated market is not one in which you want to enter. The "barriers to entry" for MK are so low (only $100) that almost anyone can get in. Would there be a legitimate need for MK consultants if there were only a few in each city and they focused on SELLING and not recruiting? Well, sure...some people love MK products and don't know you can get them for a lot less from other sites and from eBay. There are some MK products I actually really like, though their foundation and concealer gave me cystic acne it took me a good while to get calmed down. But, their lip glosses are nice and really stay on. I'm not hating on MK, but honestly WHY do we need so many consultants? I used to live in Dallas, the MK mecca. There were 3 MK consultants at my job, everywhere you went you were approached and bombarded by MK consultants begging you to give them their phone number, etc. Now, think about it - what if Apple computer were to sell its technology secrets and products to as many "distributors" as could afford to buy in - AND the cost to buy in was really low? Well, they would go out of business due to competition, that is what would happen.

It astounds me that people still buy into MK and buy lots of inventory, go into debt, etc., when it's clear there are TOO many consultants (like there are TOO many lawyers so no one can find a job). I'm not berating anyone, but really step back and look at this "opportunity." Also, if MK's opportunity and products are so wonderful, why do their consultants have to nag the living *&#$ out of you to get you to attend a party, sign up to sell MK, or have a skin care class? Think about it...really good "opportunities" have people breaking down the doors trying to get to them, not the other way around!

Well said, lawgirl

Ah, logic!

I remember going to a party and being told how many consultants there were in the area (and this was presented as a perk, for some reason). The lady said, "just look around for all the MK cars!".

I was thinking "So if I were to enter this, how intense would be the competition?

Well I have posted on another section here today and I will say this. THANK YOU. Maybe a tad too late, but thank you. I have had such a huge eye opening experience today with MK. From the final decision to close my store and making that call to MK (yes, they were RUDE!!) to a contact email from another girl in the unit who told me not to discuss having emailed with her to the director. What in the sam hill is going on here? I can't even talk to other girls in the group that I used to get coaching from anymore? Yes, I have seen a whole new side to MK. Sadly though, it is the only thing I have ever used and I will continue to buy it, but NOT from that pushy SD (who yes, as you all mentioned did do my first $600 order for me.) When I hesitated about starting my MK business (or their branch of it), it was because I don't have outlets to people for bookings. So that still remains. I have been unable to sell the product I was told I had to have on hand. Yes, some of you will say I should have thought for myself. You didn't hear the pressure phone calls I had from my director either saying "you have to have inventory or you can't sell." What I was never told is, that I can get the stuff in a few days and everyone is happy.

I am glad I'm getting out after this short time of doing it, and wise enough to know when it is time to bow. I will never forget something one of the girls I sold mineral powder to said to me when I asked her if this was something she would be interested in doing. She said "every other husband in town has his wife selling MK, you don't stand a chance with the market in this town being over saturated." Yes, how true. I found that out when doing cold-calling. Well I am out now, (well waiting for that paperwork that they refused to fax to me.) Then I will finally be able to breathe again and hopefully regain a good portion of the money I loaned myself to dive into this mess. Luckily I have realized all this before I went too far into debt. Again, thanks for the insight here, I just wish I would have seen it sooner.

oh, and a question for the ones here who might know. I know that as a consultant, I cannot sell on ebay. So after I turn in my product and get my "blue slip" as ya'll called it, am I allowed to go sell the starter kit items I got? Honestly, I have never ever opened a single tube of the foundation. What am I going to do with all those shades? I couldn't sell it when I was a consultant. Oh boy, it makes me sick to think of the stuff I have bought. Business expense as a loss on my taxes at least. At least I was smart to go buy cheap little totes for my samples instead of the costly books and bags.

Hello Pinkcloud,
Welcome to Pink Truth.
You wont get any "I told you so's" here. We know all about the pressure, the emotional manipulation and the flat out lies.
You can send back the amount of product you have ordered in the last 12 months and get 90% of wholesale from MK Corporate.
You can also sell on E-bay. E-bay is swamped with MK. You'll get the most money sending it back to MKC.
Post on the Discussion Board any questions you have.
I am glad you are getting out after a short time. You are very smart.
Good Luck and glad you found pinktruth.

Not sure if this was the same disussion about teachers vs. MK- but I stole this from a teacher friend's blog (hope she doesn't mind). Have you ever heard this in MK? Keep up the great work PTers.


"Received a letter from a student. She wanted me to know I changed the way she thinks. She now believes she is responsible for her own future. She knows she can overcome everything she has experienced in her life and how strong she is. Just needed me to know how much my class helped her to see things differently. My... god, I am so happy to have found my calling. I am right where I need to be. It feels amazing."

Thank you icanbecomesane. The tubes of foundation that came in the starter kit (even though never used) MKC will not buy back. So when I get all done with them, ebay here I come. I had an offer from someone one day from ebay. When I was doing a transaction on there, they asked me if I sell MK because of my signature on the email. This person wanted to buy product from me to sell in their online store. I have contacted them now to see if they are still interested. Heck, I don't need foundation shades for dark skin, oriental skin, etc. I couldn't sell it before to my ladies. Thanks for the help, I tell you, I spent an hour this evening just reading post after post. It is sad that I am not alone in this, yet I am glad that I have found ladies to help me through this and realize that I DIDN'T screw up. I'm not one to play God, judge and jury here, but they need to take a deep long look at the Christian testimony they are putting out there. *shame*

I'm so glad you're sending your product back to Corpse. I hope you sell all your foundations, too.
You did not screw up. You were lied to and scammed by Master Manipulators.
I'm glad you're sending back and getting out. Join in on the Discussion Board anytime. You are among friends here.

Pinkcloud wrote: [quote]Yes, some of you will say I should have thought for myself[/quote]
NO WAY! Nobody here is going to believe that you're unable to think for yourself. My SD could sell ice to an Eskimo. She was slick, she was well versed in how to handle arguments - actually, from a sales perspective she was great. From a moral perspective she was wrong. Fortunately I've been around the block and recognized what she was doing when she helped me place my initial order. She was loading my up on products I KNEW I'd never sell and she was trying to get me to buy more, more, more! I refused and deliberately bought less. That's one small satisfaction I have now. Still, I've got products I'll never sell even though I've been trying.

However, the one great thing is that I REALLY needed a tax write of this year. Mary Kay will at least provide me with that.

And 100 years worth of eye shadow. By the time I use all of them they will be in and out of style so I'm set until I die.

"...they need to take a deep long look at the Christian testimony they are putting out there."

Mary Kay is Christian in name only, and being a Christian myself, I think every last woman in Mary Kay that calls Jesus Christ her Lord and Savior needs to take a hard look at this so-called "godly" company and the things their leaders teach. Mary Kay is about as Christian as a red light district.

Exhibit A: The almighty Husband Unawareness Program. Look at what's being taught on varying levels of Mary Kay leadership:

“You have to check with your husband first? I promise it’s easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission. Why not go ahead and get what you need now and then you can get the rest later if he agrees?" (NSD Rena Tarbet)

“You need to discuss this with your husband? Do you feel like you have a pretty healthy relationship with your husband...I have found is that it’s easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission. (laugh)” (from a training document via ESSD Mary Jo Dallen’s website)

“Be sure and share with [your customer] that you accept...creative financing (credit/check/cash) so your [husband] won’t know how much you spent.” (from SSD Kathy Payton’s New Consultant Training packet)

“May I suggest something? If you go home and ask him and he throws a fit, you’re not going to get it. Yet if you go ahead and get it and he throws a fit, you’ve still got it! I haven’t known yet of a divorce over a MK set " (from an “overcoming objections” document on SSD Bev Wenger’s website)

These leaders are teaching tens, hundreds, and even thousands of women how to disrespect and deceive one’s husband. Yet the Bible says…

Colossians 3:9,10: DO not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Ephesians 5:35: However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Proverbs 31:11,12: The heart of her husband doth safely trust in [his wife]...she will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.

If you’re one of the many Mary Kay leaders teaching this Husband Unawareness crap to women and practicing it yourself, you may wish to ponder how just solid your relationship is with your Creator and how "godly" your pink employer really is.

God will NEVER require you to do something that is against His Word so His purposes can be accomplished.

Hi gang,
I just found this site and I am truly amazed. I thought that I was the only one that felt like some of you do. First of all, let me start by saying, I am still an active consultant. However, I stop a long time ago when I saw how much they wanted you to chase people down to buy some darn makeup. People, I don't know what economy they're living in, but my pocketbook is looking kinda thin. I have two children in college at the same time. I work and make decent money, but I am a single parent. Every dime that comes into my house I need it to live and run my house. I have not lost too much money investing in MK. However, what I have spent could be very well used if I could recoup it. At any rate, let me share what I like and dislike about MK. I like most of the products. The skin care is rivaled only by 3lab in my opinion, but 3lab is so expensive. However, if I want it I will buy it, even if I have to work extra shifts to buy it. The color cosmetics are ok at times. Now let me get into the part that I don't like but they change s#@$# around too much. I am an African-American woman and I DO NOT LIKE RED MAKEUP!!! Some of the shades for AA can be rather red. I don't wear my makeup like that and I can't and won't sell anything that I don't believe in. I make a fairly good sales person. My face is my billboard, and I can apply makeup quite well. I can make my makeup look natural, or I can look like a drag queen, depending on how I feel that day. At any rate, there were some red flags that went up when I attended a cult--I mean hatchet--oops I mean MK (mighty kooky) meeting. I heard one of the pink caddy-driving directors say that doing MK would bring about a lot of tax benefits. Well, with me being economically minded, that interested me. So when we took a break from being brow beaten with the pink whip, I approached this SD and asked her to elaborate about the tax benefits that she spoke of. She told me "that would be a question better answered by your accountant". I said to myself "WTF? Why on earth would she even mention it if she didn't want to go into further detai?" Stupid me, ignored THAT red flag. Then at the pep rallies, it was a whole lot of clapping and singing by the MK mummies and testifying about their successes. One MK mummy even said how she made $10k selling MK gift baskets! I even was there when she went to the local dealership to pick up her silver Grand Prix with MK written on the side in the slutty pink! Imagine my shock when a few months later, she lost her car due to a failure in production. Hmmm-. The other director who told us about the tax benefits eventually lost her pink cadillac for the same reason. I even saw members of her unit running around trying to get orders to help this broad get her pink cadillac when she first got it. I asked the IBC what was in it for her. She told me that she got the good feeling of seeing her SD drive free. Puleeezzz! If she liked it I loved it! I was not in love with watching my success depend on what some other chic decided to do. At that point, I decided that I would not hound the hell out of people to buy. I was not going to "warm chatter" and bug the crap out of people on the phone. That wasn't my style anyway. I decided that I would let people know that I was in the business. If they wanted to buy, fine. If not, fine. I would get the products for me. I have been contemplating returning my products for the 90%, but if they shorted me any money, I would be readily prepared to go psycho!!! (Don't worry gang, I'm taking meds for that At any rate, watching other women lose their cars and commissions was wake up call enough for me, as well as the $4 commission check I received when my only recruit ordered the bare minimum. I decided that I didn't have the patience anyway. My heart goes out to those who have lost their marriages, friendships, credit,sanity and whatever else due to their involvement with MK. If it works for you, fine. But to anyone else reading this who may be contemplating entering into the abyss of MK, don't let it comsume you and for goodness sake, don't quit your day job! My "just over broke" has provided me with 16 years of steady employment (I'm a supervisor in law enforcement), excellent benefits package that no one can snatch away because somebody decided that they would be low down and not place an order just so they could see me fail. If anything, the real JOB is MK--Just On Broke.

[color=teal][/color][size=medium][/size]Do not, and I repeat, do not enter into any contracts or scams of Mary Kay. I was victimized by a very malicious SD who called me daily to see if I had done my 100 faces in 100 days, did I purchase my inventory, and yes she wanted me to purchase the 3600.00 package on a cc. I didn't because I was out of work for over a year and a friend introduced me to this creep Cindy. I thought she was okay when I first met her, but as time went on she turned out to be very nasty, vindictive, and soooooo self-centered that I just stopped going to the "meetings". She got her Caddy, showed it off to the "producers" in the "cult", and even drove it to my home, just to show me ANYONE CAN DO THIS, EVEN YOU! I basically told her to politely move her Caddy from in front of my house as it brought down the value of the neighborhood
considerably! So, she parked it down the street, came in and tried in vain to get me to SELL!SELL!SELL! for over an hour. My family got so upset that they left the house. Well, GOOD NEWS, when she left, someone had stolen the Caddy!hahahahaha. When it was found, there was nothing left of it but the pink body. We never found out who took the car, but everyone in the little "cult" had a chuckle. She has since returned to working a JOB, only because after that the sales went down, ibc's quit, everyone returned their inventories, or sold them for a pittance to anyone who would take the products off their hands. So much for being in the running for a NSD. Now she's a working stiff like me.

Hey Kukla 1,
I'd love to know what the name of your sd's club is called. The one I belonged to required all of us IBC's to wear dresses or skirts to all meetings, and special events they took us to. If we didn't, as in the case of one pregnant girl in the "cult of Cindy" didn't, she was literally pulled out of her chair at a NSD speech and this witch told everyone that "this is a no-no. Pants do not tell potential buyers that you are professional Mary Kay Consultant."
She quit on the spot, had a beautiful baby boy, and works part-time at a local elementary school as a classroom aide. By the way, KOOKLA1, she made more her first paycheck than she ever did with MK, even with her red coat and grand prix. You are the one I'm looking out for, just hope we never meet.

You know what else (regarding the Christian part of MK)? If they were TRULY Christian, any of them, the cars, the prestige, the applause, etc., would make them uncomfortable because it's self focused, something contrary to what the Bible teaches.

And the skirt thing? Gimme a break! I wrote on a different thread how I was single out because I won't wear skirts. It was ridiculous because several women who were looked like buffoons!

[quote]...they need to take a deep long look at the Christian testimony they are putting out there. [/quote]

At the first and only unit meeting I attended, I was surprised and shocked to see so many women pull out their Bibles. It was more of a prayer group than a business meeting. That was the #1 reason why I never attended another one.

Makes you wonder what these kaybots really bee-lieve in....

Dear Pink Truth contributors,
I had heard about this site and possibly peeked at it once. I think it is important for MK supporters to be realistic and living within their means. I am perplexed in pink. I want to be a star consultant yet I don't have credit to charge. I appreciate what you are doing here. Somehow I hope there is real genuine ways to be a successful MK consultant or director yet I have seen some directors who have a lot of product. One thing that strikes me is how adamant the pink truth supporters are. There is a sisterhood amongst you, no longer MK sisters, yet a sisterhood. I think one of the core fibers of the MK appeal is the sisterhood. I've been on & off with MK for over five years. Right now I'm on the red jacket pursuit. I want it yet I have to be realistic, at what price. I think open journalism is important. Thanks for being the voice of concern. I appreciate it. The truth will set us free, if we want to be.

Hello Perplexed in Pink and welcome!

It's refreshing to see a consultant come here with an open mind and clear thought pattern. I would urge you to read through the threads, especially in the sales director section. It's there where you'll find the real behind-the-scenes from those of us who were SDs for many years.

A red jacket is the first step down a slippery slope of debt and deceit. Once you become a red jacket, your director will be all over you to become a team leader, future director, DIQ, etc. If I had any advice for you, it would be to never, ever recruit.

(But you can read all about it in the discussion board threads!)

Again, welcome!

Hi perplexed, You sound like a pretty intelligent, reasonable person. We like that around here. We are very adamant about what the truth here because we've all been there. We know how things work and know that MK's "flopportunity" is destructive and cult-like. Charging your way to star consultant and upwards is not a healthy, viable way to run your business. MK is not a product that sells well. It's laden with chemicals, overpriced, and underperforms.

Oh, I forgot to add... Like Pinkpeace said, read through the info on here from sales directors. Please do ask a lot of questions. Question everything boldly.

Perplexed, Welcome!
My opinion only, even if some is based on facts (been around MK for 18+years). They, (MKC), have you by the balls/ovaries coming or going. You will need to watch your pennies very closely to make sure you have actually realized a profit or have *invested* poorly. Only order what you sell (remembering that every 3 months you'll have to order to remain *active* and if you recruit that will begin to affect you. If you did not *need* to order that's where they have you, that's called a QUOTA, and begins the slippery slope). I could go on and on, but I think you get where I'm coming from. Be careful, ask a lot of questions and try to get proof of the answers, oh, and don't use your (or anyone else's) credit cards.

[quote] I want to be a star consultant yet I don't have credit to charge[/quote]

The "truth" that you seek is right here in your own words.

Hi Perplexed,
You are wise to search for answers. You will find many of them here.
Ask ask ask. Here and at your MK meeting.
Please do not order anything until you read the articles on this site.
Welcome to Pink Truth. Ask any questions on the Discussion Board.

Sorry everyone, I had more to say, but I probably didn't make myself very clear. I was kind of in a hurry.
Perplexed:
The one thing I was wondering was: Why do you *want* to be a Star Consultant? Because of the supposed perks/bonus product/recognition? Whatever your answer, please acquire it through real sales, meaning $4,ooo (appr.) to have the need to order that much and to give yourself a profit. To charge that much is fiancial suicide, IMHO. I'm afraid you will never pay the cc and any profit you think you have made is fictitious because of the cc.
I'm sorry to sound so un-positive about the whole thing, but after 18 years exposure, I just can't see the benefits. Even IF you make money and you don't see an outright loss, the possible lies you may find yourself invovled in are just not worth your integrity.
I personally know some very honest women that have outright lied to gain directorship, and so on. I would have bet my right arm that they would NOT have finished had it not been achieved honestly. Sadly, this business can get the best of any good woman....time to read with my ds.

that's "financial" suicide

I became a consultant in late oct.2009.
I am already sick of MK. I finially see now that in order to make any money i will have to do alot of thinks i don't want to do and spend way too much time away from my family and my little grandaughter. I hate the meetings abd after taking a closer look at my life i see that it is not for me. My director is a royal pain and i am just sick of all the bull. They want you at this meeting or that function constantly and you end up spending alot of time gone from home. They don't tell you you have to pay more money just to go to a meeting. This seminar and that all the time. I just want to get rid of this stuff and not look back. I am sick of seeing her number on my phone!!! I have probably 4000.00 in inventory and now will have to figure out what in the world to do with it. I do like several of the products but also find some of the products to be not the quality of some others i have tried. I have classes scheduled and will have to tell those people sorry but im OUT of it. What was i thinking. I even just got a recruit! I just don't want the hassle in my life anymore

Pinky -

Welcome to PT! I know you will find all the information you need here. If there's one thing NONE of us miss, it's the constant hassle.

Send it back for the 90% refund PinkyD. It'll be the best thing you ever did with MK.

I am still debating on whether to send it all back or try to sell it off. I feel so relieved to have made up my mind. I am glad i decided to give it up and feel relief from the stress of all the crap. The sucess meetings were horrible and i dreaded everytime i had to go and sit through them.. One poor lady there last week ( she is an elderly lady, with no car , probably in her late 60's and the director was giving her a hard time for not selling, telling her to get herself on the bus and talk about MK and get her business going.. It was really pathetic to watch and i felt horrible for this lady.. I think the only reason the lady is even in MK is for the opportunity to get out of her house and have some contact with people. I have been in since Oct. and guess how much money i have made? NONE! And by the way have worked my butt off. What do i have to show for it. ? A CRAPLOAD of MK that i will be lucky to get rid of.. I haven't told my director or my adopted director that I am ending my relationship with MK. They will be shocked. I feel so relieve. No more stupid meetings with a bunch of women i have nothing in commen with. I am glad to be done!! I got so sick even in the short time i was in of my director saying ,she is gonna be a director and i would think if being a director means i would have to live the life you do then i don't want it. Training for this , training for that and being away from your family a big load of bullscrap to go with it. I am appalled at the way they use our Heavenly Father's name in vain. His name being used so freely causes me to question their sincereity. One more thing they use to legitimize the entire MK experience. If you work like they want you to, you have no time for Jesus or your family. I genuinely pray their are genuine. In addition, I was disquested at seeing MK's picture displayed in their homes like she was Jesus. I am sure she was a wonderful lady, but please stop placing her on your walls like you worship her. Furthermore, when you have $20k worth of MK products in your home of unsold merchandise and just sitting there. What is good about that. Wouldn't it be good to have this merchandise sold instead of sitting on a shelf. There were too may redlights flashed before my eyes. I am so glad to be out of the pink fog and in the light of day. Hallelujah i am done.

I'm new here and have had a great time reading all the posts. This is a great site. I came across it on a Google search. I am writing because I saw a post about the "Big box stores" with the Lowly workers there. I was one of those "Lowly Workers who happened to work at a cosmetics counter at a department store. I did care about my clients and did educate them about products AND other products. They were very surprised that I knew so much and that I referred them to other counters. I CARED about them and wanted the best for them. They knew I was genuine and kept coming back to me. I didn't pressure sell them or tell them our product was better than anyone else. If I didn't think our product worked for them I sent them across the way.I gave great customer service and made some really good money. I had a steady clientele and didn't use any pressure sales to keep them. I just had to post because that person who wrote that was pretty rude. Not all cosmetic counter people are insensitive and all about the money.MAC could be an exception though, haha. I don't work in sales anymore but just had to comment on that.

Oh, and sorry about the MAC comment. Some of them are very nice but seems like most of the salesppl at my Nordstroms and Macy's are very snotty. I do love MAC though and buy it, especially the lip gloss.

Yes, it was a rude comment.

But the person who said it wasn't talking about department store counter workers (who often provide very good customer service.) She was talking about people at big box stores (Walmart, K-mart, Target, etc.) They tend to get paid less, have less training, and in general get treated like commodities, so they often don't care much about their jobs. (My personal experience, the 3 or 4 Walmarts I've shopped at had universally terrible service, the many K-marts I've used have had mostly bad service, and the Target I commonly use now actually has reasonably good service for a place without a whole of staff for their size.)

The reason I point this out is because Mary Kay claims to have department store service & quality at lower prices. They know their prices tend to be higher than big box stores, so they have to claim better quality and service. I believed that when someone first sold me Mary Kay, and continued to believe it while selling the stuff. It took some experience with the business to realize that we got no real training from Mary Kay, so the service depends on the individual (who may or may not be more motivated than a Walmart employee.) Sometimes it can be really poor. And the quality is not better than what you get from big box stores. Many of the products at those stores aren't lower in quality than department store stuff anyway. What you pay for at department stores is service. And service with Mary Kay is unreliable.

In some department stores where the employees have quotas or make commissions, they can be like vultures.

One of the worst jobs I ever had was working in a Dillards, in which I had a quota to maintain just to keep my job. My coworkers and I did not earn commissions, but the atmosphere was tense. Petty bickering about who approached a customer first, blah, blah, blah. If I encounter this kind of pressure cooker atmosphere in a store, I am out of there.

I have been lurking here for a few days and reading. I was never in MK, but six years ago I signed up for a party plan/MLM style business. It was not a business that required buying inventory...people ordered at the event and I delivered it later. I wish that I had known about the pitfalls of direct selling before I signed and certainly before we racked up $8000 in CC debt. My husband was totally supportive of my new business and helped me with many aspects of it. What I wish I had known was the amount of "work" that wouold be required to make the business viable. I wish I had known how embarrassing it is to be approaching friends and family for sales/parties. Once the friends and family had been exhausted or drained I tried mailouts, bombing letterboxes, my kids' child care centre, hostess nights with incentives to order, but none of it worked. I blamed myself for months, especially about having racked up the debt which meant I had to return to full time work to pay it off AND put my kids in full time day care. Then I saw a show about MLM and began doing some research. It wasn't me; it was a business model with inherent flaws.
Thank you so much for this site. Hopefully it will help others avoid the heartache that I experienced.

Welcome, mizbear, thanks for sharing your experience. I thought what you said was interesting, and I hope you'll tell us more.

For example, where did the CC debt come from, if not from buying inventory? I have some ideas about this -- certainly mine wasn't all from inventory, but I'd like to hear about yours. Also, is there any reason you can't tell us which MLM it was?

I'm happy to tell you which MLM it was, it's just that it is an Australian company, so you probably won't have heard of it The company was called Crafty Kids and it dealt with kids craft, stamping and scrapbooking. A *bit* like Creative Memories, but with kids craft kits tacked on. The co. has now rebranded and reorganised the business...the kids craft was taken out and they redesigned all the scrapbooking stuff. The CC debt came from me having to buy all the product from the company - at a 20% discount - the profit was supposed to come from the difference between the advertised price and what I pace and what I paid. Shipping was expensive and always cost more than the handling fees included on the customer order form. I had to order all the booking forms, hostess invitations, customer order forms from the company, which all ate into the "profit". I am not pushy and refused to be so, but even my best friends started to (surreptitiously) roll their eyes when I mentioned CK. I got into it because I loved the products, so I always put in a personal order which ensured that I had no profit at all. Ever. The co. would also "discontinue" products with no warning. There was no pressure from above to update products, but sooner or later customers would ask why we were using the old product and not the new one. The “new product releases” were so enticingly packaged that it was hard not to get sucked into buying it anyway. They would also delete entire ranges without warning i.e. the just after I joined they sunsetted the entire range of 8 1/2x11 scrapbooking stuff - if you had that in your kit (and it was expensive) then it was suddenly obsolete and you had to invest in 12x12 stuff instead. One of the drawcards in the co was that you had 3 streams of income: parties/demonstrations, classes and recruiting. I did 3 training courses and then started advertising classes. I bought six of each of the tools needed to run a class, like the others did, and discovered afterwards that there was no market for craft classes. There were groups of friends that met and put an order in at the end of the night and there were professional classes held at local craft stores, but no market for just coming along to a craft class in someone’s home. I did everything I could to make it work, but there was no market for what I was offering. The only way to make money was by recruiting, which I hated!! We had to personally train our own recruits, and I spent over 10 hours providing a very basic training – none of it in how to sell, just a lot of how to put in orders and run parties. At the parties we were supposed to demonstrate the products (i.e.use them up and order more) and encourage people to buy based on how wonderfully we did things. I don’t quite understand how, but I didn’t realise that this was a sales job until after I got out. I am many things, but not one of them is a salesperson I realised after about 6 months that I needed to ramp up what I was doing, so I sent out a newsletter advertising classes, offering a VIP card and all sorts. I sent one to every customer I had ever had and I got one response back. One. And that was someone who had ticked the “I prefer not to be contacted again” box on the back page of the newsletter. With mounting debt and no idea how we were going to get out of the mess, my husband and I packed it in. I thought it was me, but after reading up a bit on MLMs I realised it wasn’t me, it was the system.

I forgot to mention...one of the things I was told in training was that the "products would sell themselves" and it was true. They *did* sell themselves...to me!! I was my best customer and I acknowledge that openly. It wasn't ALL the MLMs fault

aryanmk: so, you signed yesterday? and found us today? I find that a bit ironic and suspicious.

First, your Mom sold MK years ago, right? Well, good for her. Things are much different in the world of Mk today than it was even 25 yrs ago.

Second, how do you know we didn't work our businesses? At this point, you haven't worked yours much either, so how do you know? Tell us your successes, please!

Third, I get the whole wholesale vs. retail stuff. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. But what you might not know is this: You won't make 50% profit at all. Because if you aren't at "profit level" you are supposed to reinvest into inventory until you get there. Even when you are there- you are taught to do the 60/40 split - 60% back into product, 40% to cover your expenses (gas, phone, computer, cards, supplies, etc) - you'll be lucky to clear about 20%.

You're new- so I'll give you some space- but do yourself a favor and don't dis my girlfriends without any real information. I'm being very nice right now- but my other girlfriends might not cut you so much slack.

The choice is yours- either act like an idiot and lash out- or please keep quiet and just read on- you actually might learn something of value here- and when your SD lies to you (and she will) - we'll be here to pick up the pieces.

ta ta.

Aryanmarykay - Before you judge the ladies on this site, you should know that they were way ahead of you in this business...Many were Directors, Senior Directors, Executive Elite Senior Directors...All the way to National In Qualification Directors.

You've only been in one day and you're calling these ladies lazy losers? It won't be long before you realize that your customers won't buy Mary Kay from you because they can get it for $1.00 on Ebay. Good luck!

BTW - There IS a minimum for your discount! You must buy at least $400.00 retail to get your 50% discount, plus pay tax (On retail amount), plus shipping. You get to keep your discount for UP TO three months if you place your order on the first of the month...Then, there IS a minimum...but you wouldn't really know that much info. about the business since you just signed yesterday right???

I'm guessing there are a few other things you might not know about this business...like...The car isn't free unless you meet your ordering quotas...The quality of the products aren't very high (read the ingredients and do your own research), etc...

$200.00 a year for makeup and skincare? Nope. I use the classic Dove Beauty Bar, some Paula's Choice samples, and E.L.F. makeup (1.00 for most colors). I spend about $15.00 a year and my skin is thanking me! No more horrible breakouts like the MK timewise products caused!

Someone call the Trollinater!

This one is funny, though, EWON. She might have a lot to teach us if she sticks around. She has one day's experience! Woot! Woot!

Seriously? This troll is using "Aryan" in her user name? What, now we get the Nazi trolls? Did MK go all Aryan Nation on us, and we missed it? This one's a sicko, gang.

Wow, mizbear, you story is sooo familiar. They really are all alike, aren't they?

Personally, I think "aryan" should have her miserable, disgusting ash banned for chosing that name!

I will not even comment to someone who is that rude.

[quote]No one forced you.. yes you may have been influenced but that is where self control comes in..[/quote]
No one forced us, but we were working on bad information. We did a normal, human thing, which was to act on advice from the experts in authority. You know, people who told us it was their job to help us.

If you want to understand how normal and human it is to do what people in authority tell us, check out the Milgrim experiments.

[quote]Buy as needed... Don't buy an inventory. .duh![/quote]That is what we advise. But it is not so obvious that you need to be rude and say "duh" to us. My recruiter and my SD both carried inventory, and they seemed to be doing just fine. I loved it when my recruiter (while she was my consultant) had the product on hand and I got it right away. I thought she was great, and I wanted to do what she did. Why not follow the example of the successful people, if I want to be successful?

The only thing I didn't understand is that they weren't really successful. And in the case of my SD, she did actively work at making people think she was more successful than she was. We were working on bad information.

[quote]When doing MK you have to have a open mind and a optimistic one at that.[/quote] Now that's bad advice, that's contrary to the good advice you've already given. [quote]If you have a gut feeling that you shouldnt do it then why do it.[/quote]
Trying to have an open mind and be optimistic is exactly why many of us ignored some of those gut feelings.

[quote]I would have fun.[/quote]
Yup, that's what everyone says when they realize they're not really making money. "At least I'm having fun doing it."

[quote]There is no minimun req. for your discount..

200 dollars for your first order...[/quote]
That would be a minimum. And it will cost you more than $200. You will have to buy at least $200 wholesale section I, plus the sales tax your state charges on double the wholesale amount, plus shipping.

[quote]and..
200 dollars a year..[/quote]Keep in mind that you have to spend that $200 (which is really more than $200) in a single order. If you spend $50 in one order, and $150 in another order later, you won't get the 50% discount.

[quote]... why no take my discount and spend it on me..?[/quote]
Because there are plenty of good brands of skin care and makeup to choose from, many of which are no more than Mary Kay at the 50% off, and many of which are better quality. Why be locked into buying everything from one brand, when some brands are better at certain products than others? I'm so glad not to be restricted that way.

Hey Aryan. You're funny! Ridiculous in your stupidity.

I never really bought from Mary Kay because my consultant was constantly trying to recruit me. Because of this, I never called her to order products. What kind of company chases away legitimate customers?

The kind of company that really sells to the consultants, not to the end users. They don't care if I buy or not, they only care if I sign on, and how much inventory I purchase upfront. They put the screws on to make you buy upfront, because they know as time wears on and you realize that when the fly off the shelves sales don't materialize, you're not going to pony up the big bucks for inventory.

But once they get you hooked, moving up the ladder just puts more pressure on you to recruit. The whole car thing is just designed to force you into a) buying more yourself or b) manipulating your team to buy more. But none of these sales are driven by DEMAND. And that's ridiculous.

You say that you know you are going to have fun. Wow, that's cool. But how much fun do you think you are going to have when you are ridiculed by your management for not coming up with production? How much fun is it going to be when you are called lazy and someone else who places a big inventory order is a star? You'll soon find out that whatever fun you have comes at a huge price.

The mind blowing thing about all of this, is that we live in free enterprise system, and you can buy ALL YOU NEED on EBAY for a fraction of the retail price. You don't need to be a consultant to get the discounts, you can get all of this plus free shipping on EBAY. That should tell you something right there!

So go on ahead with your Mary Kay fun fest, dearie. I'm sure you will be rewarded in kind!

I have found that anyone whose mission is to attack and uses the word DUH, while speaking/typing during the attack, is extremely immature/child-like and ignorant.

Her post is just oozing ignorance (lack of knowledge).

I want to correct something I said. As someone pointed out to me in a PM, and as there's some thought on the discussion board that we may be sending out mixed messages...

We'll always say "don't buy inventory", but I'll only advise "Buy as you need" to someone who's absolutely determined to sell the stuff anyway. Many of us only intended to do Mary Kay as a sideline, and got talked into doing more than we intended once we were in it. And we've heard from a number of people who never bought inventory and STILL LOST MONEY.

On top of that, there are still social problems with supporting a "party business", where you ask people to hold events, and they invite their friends who buy from them NOT because they want the products, but to be nice, or because they feel like that have to. AND having any involvement with Mary Kay is supporting a company that preys on women. The best advice is stay the heck away from it.

It is hard to send one clear message when there are thousands of us voicing our opinions. Ha! That is what makes PT so interesting and that is also what makes PT so confusing.

I have been visiting PT for over a year and a half and I am still confused!

here's a link to the Milgram experiments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

i was amazed, i've never heard about them... it really does show how humans are much more likely to obey an authority figure, no matter how awful the deed may sound.

dang it...
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment[/url]

Yeah, it annoys me when people bash those of us who work in retail! I personally love my retail job and try to be as nice and helpful as possible, but there's always people who think they're better than others just because they're on the other side of the register.

Anyway, I wanted to comment that I'd studied about the Milgram experiment in college and it blew my mind that so many people just went along with the "shocks" that were being given! There was another experiment done a bit later where this guy wanted to study prison conditions so he started up a "prison" at the school he was teaching at. They ended up having to shut it down because both the students who were the guards and the ones who were the prisoners were so deep into their roles that they needed to be like deprogrammed.

In my opinion, a lot of the women who get involved with MK are the same way, they just get sucked into the lifestyle and because they surround themselves with other MK members that's all they know.

LOL

Ya gotta love the way that utterly clueless women have the moxie to post on PinkTruth and tell us what's what.

Love the way they think we were FAILURES!

Hee hee. Sure, cause why would we post here?

It never occurs to them that as Successful sellers of Mary Kay products and Successful recruiters and Unit Builders and car winners and Star consultants, and Queens Courters and Caddy drivers, THIS SITE MIGHT HAVE ANOTHER PURPOSE!

Wake up sweetie. Pinktruth exists to save your sorry ash from financial destruction, cult manipulation, and blind loyalty demanded in order to pick your pocket.

This is not a site where failures moan and complain. This is a Site to SAVE YOU from the lies and omissions of "dual marketing" from those who were good at it.

Aryan,

You deserve everything you're going to get.

[quote] If you buy into the 100 dollars you get enough product for yourself to use.. [/quote]
Sure you do..... if you have 3 different skin colors in 9 different tones, and have 2 different skin types

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SIGNED THE CHECK!

No one forced you..
No, but someone sure as Hades lied and manipulated beautifully....tell em what they want to hear (read that as how not so great people rise to power)



When doing MK you have to have a open mind and a optimistic one at that.....We did and it got us burned...see how far that optimism takes you,cupcake?

I'm a new MK consultant and my mom was years ago..
I just joined yesterday..
Oh great and wise one....


There is no minimun req. for your discount..
Excuse me while I gag on the smell of BS

200 dollars for your first order...

and..
200 dollars a year..Try again wise one, that's every QUARTER....Did your recruiter "forget" to tell you?

do you spend 200 dollars a year in makeup and skin care? Nope, and there is NO need to. Walgreen's has frequent sales,the color selections are better,and the fragrances don't make everyone in a 100 yard radius want to puke..best of all,nobody was put into financial ruin trying to sell it to me,and the saleslady didn't warm-stalk me.

I do.. why no take my discount and spend it on me..? All I can say is enjoy that debt,ahem,discount.

hmm.. thought about it.[/quote]

Well said, ExKaybot.

Crud!! Raisin I meant to give you a thumbs up, but my laptop mouse area is super sensitive and my medicine makes me shake,and it caused a thumbs down. I am SO sorry

Thank you ladies!!! WELL SAID , I was no failure, I sold 2500 dollars in product, in 6 months. AND I STILL TURNED MY PRODUCTS BACK IN! WHY??? Because I had LOTS of stuff no one in their right mind would buy. And I had expensive products that could not deliver. I mentioned I may be "closing my store" in a mass email to my 30 so customers, and I ended up with 200+ in product returns...Think about it, they wanted their money back and I had to give it back to them. NOT the company, that's out of pocket guys!! Or of corse you could just get MORE products! wow, so glad I'm out! Can't wait till my refund check comes in though. it's just enough to cover my credit card debt. Gas , papaer, skin care class supplies, stupid cheap giveaways, all came from my familys budget, I didn't count on all the expenses...oh well, guess I"m just a lazy failure

Raisin- girlfriend, well said!~ Absolutely we are here to specifically warn others of the huge pitfalls that a Mk life can give.

Exkaybot- nicely done as well. Welcome to our club.

Fabulous ladies- you are all incredible and you don't disappoint!

I hope she comes back and absorbs the wisdom that has been emparted for her- and a thought- she might be A. Ryan- but until she decides to clarify, I guess we'll never know.

great job ladies!

I love Mary Kay cosmetics. Since I use them I have no problem with my face and skin. I do not use all of them but time wise miracle set, body lotion, maskara etc. I'm also selling them. I have obout 20 customers, I'm selling with 20 % discount and they like it. If they do not like any cosmetics they return and they have their money back. I like the business very much. I'm not making great money but I'm making some extra income, for clothes, vacation. The best is that I have free cometics and I love it. I have my director and I do not know how is her financial situation. We do not have contact. Every week we have meetings, usually I go once a month. As a student and part time emploee the Mary Kay is a great opportunity for me. I have to order $200 every 3 months, I use more cosmetics for myself in the time. I do not have rectuters and I do not really need them. I have positive experience maybe becouse I'm not crazy about the business i just enjoy the cosmetics.I never bought a lot and did not spend money for inventory. I only order what I and my customers need.

Elizapola,

Your story is Pro MK. It belongs on a Pro MK website.
This is an Anti-MLM website. Thus Anti-MK.
There are dozens of Pro MK websites. Post your story on any of them.
Thank You.

Mary Kay is a pink predator. You sell their products and you feed the beast. We'll thank you in advance for deciding not to feed the beast.

OMGoodness! You guys just saved me. Thank God I Didn't sign up. Whew! I was looking for a silver bullet, but apparently I just dodged a real one. Now I just have to break it to my friend that I have changed my mind and cancel the appointment with the SD. Wow! I feel so relieved that I was not swept away by the "no quotas, work at your own pace" malarkey. I should have known better ... if it sounds too good to be true then it is. Thanks again.

dodged -- glad to help. And I'm thankful you did some research before signing on.

Wow. Just...wow.

I honestly can't believe I signed that stupid contract. I've been an IBC for *OFFICIALLY* 3 weeks, because I believed all the hype from some woman who seemed to be just like me in every way, tremendously successful as an SD, and who assured me that I could make an enormous amount of money in no time at all.

I'm getting married in March. I need cash. I need money to pay for everything from a photographer to a DJ to flowers and everything in between. So of course when I was told that I could augment my normal income by a few hundred dollars a week, I JUMPED at it!

And now, in the past 3 weeks, I have gone from nearly debt-free (although not entirely...wedding expenses, ya know?) to being an additional 1k in debt. Not as bad as some of the PP, but certainly not where I want to be.

My Grand Opening was tonight...I invited 8 friends, and all but two of them flaked. The two who showed up were my mom and my very patient aunt. I sold $35 WS. And I didn't have any of what they ordered in stock, so there came another order.

I'm done. I'm going to sell the inventory I have and get out. I love the product, but to amass a debt of this magnitude in so short a period is simply insane. And then to do the "Power Start" on top of it? Sorry, but I work 50+ hours a week as it is, and I relish my two days off. I don't want to spend them hocking product to my friends, who have been avoiding my phone calls for a week and a half.

I'm planning to maybe have a "clear my inventory" party in a few weeks, and just bring everything I have and spread it out. I do adore the MK line. Honestly. And I love my SD. But this just isn't for me. I'll sell what I have, make what I can, cut my losses, and run. At this point I just don't see any other options.

Thank you to everyone who posted above. My eyes have been opened, and the Pink Fog has lifted, and not a moment too soon.

And who knows? Maybe I can make back my investment (including gas, new "professional" clothes, marketing tools, etc), and even have a little left over for a single carnation for the wedding!!!

I believe you will get more money back by sending your product back to Corpse than by trying to sell it.

icanbecomesane speaks the truth. Send it back and get your 90% back. You can send back EVERYTHING, which means no left over dribs and drabs that no one wants to buy. I encourage you to do so. Why try to hock your products to people that don't want them?

The last few years the only benefit I have received from MK is the loss on my tax return, and it really isn't even a benefit anymore since the only order I only place is the $200 order with my tax return. I stopped the regular ordering when my director was calling and e-mailing the unit begging us to please order and order to make production so we could be a Cadillac unit. Would we be taking turns driving the Cadillac? Since I would NEVER be driving this Cadillac, why was I spending my money so she could? The entire unit would be there with her at the dealership when she picked it up and drove off in it. Are you serious? That was my benefit? My director is a very nice person, but that was it for me. My inventory is over a year old, so I can't send it back to the company can I? Any suggestions?

Some of the stuff make sense to me. such as number 5: "You’ll be expected to wear a skirt to all company events,"it seems appropriate because it is a business; number8: "You’re not really allowed to advertise your business or sell through modern outlets such as ebay," ebay asks for about 8% of the profit made from the sale so it make sense to not sell on ebay b/c why should they profit from a company they are'nt associated with? number 10: "In MK you’ll likely be one of the over 99% who lose money in the venture, and if you do make money, it’ll probably only amount to minimum wage." mary kay is considered a independent business so this situation is not just in MK it's in every business similar to it and of course everyone is not gonna be rich but i mean at least 1% make it; that 1% was probably more of a risk taker...

So I just got a free facial today, and I rather enjoyed it. I usually don't wear any makeup, or do anything with my skin. I think I look nice without it, and cant really tell when I put it on. I did like the idea of taking care of my skin so I don't look bad when I get older. I'm also looking for some extra money to help me through college, since I may be looking at 4-6 more years for veterinary school. After reading all the comments on here, I'm very nervous. I'm not a very forward person, and I don't really feel comfortable with people I don't know. The consultant tried to get me to sign up on my computer right away, but I wasn't quite on board yet so I said I would wait and think on it. Does anyone actually believe I could make decent money doing this? I know this is probably not the best site to ask this on, because most of you are going to say no, but please tell me reasons. I'm just nervous I guess. Thanks

Well you will be set up to buy a boatload of inventory at your orientation...which you will be told you will whip right through. You may be asked to set up a business debut where your Director will come over, and demo and give the rah rah speech, and try to recruit your friends and family members. At that point, they make pity buys and you will think you are making money. AFter you sell your friends and family, a shy person is screwed because you have to go out and "warm chat" strangers by handing out samples. Your biz spits and starts from then on, until You get suckered up the career path, where "the real money is--you are so sharp!" That's when you finally bend over and take it up the dupa because you get hooked into winning a car, getting your own Unit, and topping off production any time it is necessary until you find another sucker like yourself to take over that job.

yea you can make money.

PS. If you start with anything lower than $3,000.00 worth of inventory, you will be told not to pay yourself until you get to "profit level". Reinvest all you make back into the biz. Since you will believe your Director and believe thatsales will come as easy as they did at the debut, you do it.

About this time the seasons change and there's new stuff to buy. Better order NOW!! You want to be current!

So you make money and then you lose it, and then you make some and then lose it, and about 10 months from now you will be 8K in debt...on average.

How's this sounding so far?

Fantastic! When can I start!

I feel bad for most of you, bitter people here.
Did Amway with my wife 15 years ago (we were 25 then), were pushed to the limit just like in MK, eventually quit, but loved all of the positive experience.
Joined Amway/Quixtar 6 tims since(every 2 years), under the same upline/recruiters, because we love the products, but are unable and don't want to maintain quotas.
Can write a book about everything negative about MLMs (it all has happened to me), but can also write 10 books on everything positive it gave us.
Yesterday, my wife (now with the support of our 14 y.o. daughter) signed up for MK. The recruiter tried to honestly talk them out of it, but they are determined, even after I showed them 54,748 lots on eBay at below wholesale. My wife has own business (14 hours/day), goes to college, 2 kids, me, 2 cats, house, etc. Best of luck to her!
Meanwhile, I am going back to Amway... there has to be more people like us, who love the products (both Amway and MK)...

Amway Boy ... there may be, but they are all personal-use consultants or will be soon. Your chances of making much money selling the stuff are slim to none.

Amwayboy...There are many situations that could have a positive aspect. Its the totality of the experience that determines the way reasonable people view it.

Mk friends are great friends, still you threaten exposure of the con.

MK events are positive and entertaining, until you cant scrape together an $8 room fee or have no gas in the car...because you are maxxed on 3 credit cards.

MK provides an arena of personal growth, and you do grow new skill sets, like lying better, living in denial, self preservation, and of course, public speaking.

MK lavishes prizes, awards and recogniton, and you only have to order more merchandise to get them.

Plus you gain great determination, because when you are losing your car, that needed new recruit is DEFINATELY going to start with a FULL WAGON, cause if she doesn't, that's exactly what you'll be tooling around town in..

We aren't bitter, my dear. We are Better. We refuse to DO this to anyone, anymore.

Well, they say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results...

I'm trying to understand why you, "Amway Boy," would continually join a system of destruction, and then try to tell us that, yeah, it ruined our lives, but look at the good stuff.

I mean, seriously, look at what girls and boys learn in child slavery rings -- self-preservation, sexual skills, early-onset maturity. Why bother with the negative aspects?

You are loony.

Now this, my friends, is a wonderful example of insanity. They've tried MLM 8 times but still haven't learned their lesson.

Amway boy,
Please share what your positive experiences have been with Amway/Quixtar? If any of the reasons are financially based, please be prepared to show us your Schedule C.

Amway boy: I really do feel sorry for your children and will pray that they have not inherited the penchant for self-delusion that you and your spouse seem to readily model for them

Kenpo, I don't see how.

"Yesterday, my wife (with support of my 14 y.o.daughter) joined MK".... wrote amwayboy.

Does he really want his 14 y o daughter to be caught up in lies and scamming others? Sounds like the least of his problems are MLM-induced.

Too bad the gene has been allowed to infiltrate the next generation. Looks like insidious MLM family destruction continues.

yea when you read amboys post again,...you definately get the sense that he is playing.

I cracked my head on a wooden board. It made me so dizzy I saw stars. So every 2 years, I smack myself again. I could tell you to stay away from wooden boards, cause of all the knots in my head, but I like the pretty spinning colors.

Yesterday my daughter grabbed my neighbors shovel and bashed my wife over the head. He tried to talk her out of it but my wife really wanted a knot like mine. I made her look at photo's of all the mishapen heads people had from being bashed with boards and shovels...but she thinks she can get hers to come out even and symetrical. You go girl!

So I am going back to the garage to see if I can find my old wooden plank and smash myself in the face. There has to be more people out there who like swollen knots and can't seem to get enough brain damage to see colors all the time.

AmwayBoy,

I am not bitter. I write on Pink Truth so I can warn women about MK and help the ones who want to get out. How is that bitter?

Every day another woman learns THE TRUTH. She learns how to get her money and her life back. I am very proud of the work I do.

Your wife is headed for emotional and financial abuse. That is the truth.

Ican is bowing to Raisin.

Raisin LOL

Scamway boy's post was scripted and uttered by a gazillion people before him. Do MLM racketeers not have an original idea in their plank-bashed noggins?

Bwahahaha ttp!

Hey Ambot... I don't wanna be rude but seriously, you still haven't figured out what MLM has been doing to you all this time? And now you are willing to sacrifice your wife and daughter on the pink alter of greed?
Okay then...... to each his own, I guess!

**Truly sad**

"Yesterday, my wife (now with the support of our 14 y.o. daughter) signed up for MK."


Is the daughter going to get a job and pay the bills while the mom tries to make money with MK??

Scamboy: I hope you are still reading.

Look, anyone who goes back to some form of MLM EIGHT TIMES has more problems than your average bear. So I can see why you're all cool with your wife venturing into, as Penn & Teller called it on BULLSHIT last week, the Mother of all MLMs.

Better yet, go read the current "Did MK put a wedge into your marriage" thread. There are a couple of MK husbands in there you would do well to listen to.

scAmway did not even pay for the gas it took to drive all over picking up and delivering their cheap overpriced products every week my upline withheld a $6 check from me because his upline withheld a $12 check from him. Seriously. That's when I quit

I love PT and am so glad I found this site but scAmway makes MK look legitimate by comparison.

raisin et al: LOL

I am glad somebody has actually paid attention to my posting. Thanks!
Did not expect to have so many responses...
To answer your attacks:
When we joined, I didn't speak much of English, we were the hardest people to sign up (sceptics from Russia, young, no money, no credit, no language, no NOTHING).
Amway has taught me to be positive, to not let negative (like this website) to bring me down. My sponsors helped me to get my first house in the US, taught me everything about America, inspired me to borrow money for college education, so I make now a 6-figure income as a Director of Nursing of a Home Care Agency, helping women to make more money than their husbands. They taught me to look for value in anything I buy, so I enjoy Tropicana OJ and don't care that it is 3 times more expensive than the store brand.
My wife's recruiter called today with the name and # of the local MK rep (she is from Virginia and we are in NJ) and wanted to make sure that we have no pressure, but receive whatever support we need.
I will keep you posted about my wife's progress.
About my Amway re-joinings: I am not as dumb as you want to think (my GPA after 10 years of college in US is 4.0). Amway, though, is doing a much better job than MK to prevent people from selling the products on the internet. Check me out: the bottle of the original LOC (I hope you know what it is) now retails for $5.45. eBay has it for $8.99 plus $5.99 S&H. And people actually buy it!!!! Mary Kay, apparently, doesn't do as good of a job as Amway (I hope they read this blog and do something about it!), so there are plenty of products out there for less than the wholesale price. Crazy! Totally agree with all of you on this point. Will talk to the company's executives through my lawyers next week about it.
My daughter? Please, don't try to put her down. She has her picture in New York Times, surrounded by 5 world-famous Hollywood and Broadway stars in a play that took more Tony awards than any other play in US history. She defended US in 40 countries' competition in Broadway musical in LA in 2005 (won it). Honestly, she knows what she is doing. She will be the national director of MK as soon as she hits 18.

Again, I completely understand why folks are not happy with their MK experience. I am truly glad this site exists - MLM is certainly not for everyone, and people need to know the truth, so thanks for sharing your negative experiences - it helps new and old MK reps to better their practices (I hope you understand that this site is actually very helpful for Mary Kay).

Will be back in one month with the update.

Interestingly, haven't found many alternatives to MK (or Amway/Quixtar) on this site... so what are your suggestions? Keep on doing 9-to-5? hope that my company will pay for my retirement?
Honestly, is there a better alternative?

Won't bother you for a month, promise,
Best of luck!

10 yrs college? Nuff said

Amway Boy : [quote]Interestingly, haven't found many alternatives to MK (or Amway/Quixtar) on this site... so what are your suggestions? Keep on doing 9-to-5? hope that my company will pay for my retirement?[/quote]
Take advantage of the company 401K, stock purchase plans and other investing. I know people who worked making computer chips - just line operators and shift leaders - who have a couple of million in their 401K and stock accounts. All that with 40-hour weeks, 2+ weeks paid vacations, sick leave, and company health benefits.

[quote]Honestly, is there a better alternative?[/quote]
MLMs are not it. You are a contract reseller in an overcrowded marketplace.

"She will be the National Director of MK as soon as she hits 18."

Uh, no, since she's not recruitable until she actually turns 18. Cute affirmation, though.

Amway Boy, tell me why you and your wife appear to be so addicted to the MLM business model. Is it the praise? Is it the so-called "positivity?" It's not the money, because according to your claims (given that they are indeed true), you already have that:

You: 6-figure income as a Director of Nursing
at a home care agency

Wife: Has own business/attends college

Daughter: Budding Broadway actress

So being blessed with that, what do you need recruiting rackets like Amway and Mary Kay for? Allow yourself the honor of logical thought for a moment (even though Amway and Mary Kay thinks that stuff is horrifically negative) and ponder why - despite your having tried to make it work over six times - it still ain't working. Surely there is a cheaper, much less manipulative way to gain "positive" experiences in one's life.

Hell, go to Burger King, buy yourself a fountain soda, park by the lake, stroll along the waterline, talk to God, and just enjoy His creation. Positive AND cheap!

A-boy said:

[quote]Mary Kay, apparently, doesn't do as good of a job as Amway (I hope they read this blog and do something about it!), so there are plenty of products out there for less than the wholesale price. Crazy! Totally agree with all of you on this point. Will talk to the company's executives through my lawyers next week about it.[/quote]

Two points:

1. If this is "crazy!" then why be affiliated with a company where the true market value of the product is so low?

2. I busted out laughing at the thought of A-boy getting his lawyers to talk to MK corporate. That is too funny on any number of levels.

[img]http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/50/s_fbc41f4b5621f320b74cbab6092c1bd1.jpg[/img]

Whoops - sorry about the image link.

Suffice it to say that it is a pink troll mooning us.

oh you guys are sooo good. I pity the fool that comes here to play three card monty. Yea, Scrib...6 figures and needs a multi-level...Wife who works 14 hours a day is going to do mary Kay..when? Sounds like a Mary Kay hubby, just borrowing another guys "I-story".
And buddy if you think "your lawyers" can say anything important or relevant or even get an audience with MK, your head is in the clouds. That made me laugh out loud.

But once again...this is a "negative site"???
This is a site that will restore you to sanity.
You believe a sales presentation given to you by people who get commission off what you buy.
We tell our own stories with no personal gain whatsoever. Other than abuse recovery.

Who has the more "positive" motive?

Amboy,
We look forward to hearing from you in:
One month
Six months
and in One Year.

Anyone can make big things happen in one month when they push hard enough-- sustaining it and living with the deceptive ways for a year is much different. We'll see who really shows up to the party.

g.o.o.d.

Scamway Boy says this site is actually helpful to Mary Kay. Yeah. That explains why the number of new directors decreases each year along with the commissions of those at the tippy top.

The reality is, Scamway Boy, this site is good for people who are on to the MLM con game.

Am I the only one who noticed that scamway boy's posts appear to be written by two different people? The first is written in the usual style, the second is suddenly in broken English.

He's just a pathetic little troll.

Move along, move along.

Amway Boy says he and his wife both have high paying jobs. So why do they need MLM?

Why are our questions attacks? How is this site negative? I would like this explained.

As for the 10 years of college, some people who work full time take one class a semester.

It's a shame Amway Boy doesn't realize we're here to help.

i have been with mk say about 9 month where i am no one is interested in it. most of my clients say they are to expensive and some say they dont work.i had a prevouis customers who used mk products and she tried it on after 2 weeks she phoned me and told me to come to her place when i did my god i gave her the right products and when i looked at her face she was covered with blothes and spots and also i did her consultataion too.

any way i have been in mary kay for 9 month and it was rubbish i tried to go get customers and they say that no thanks. i understand them i haa also put in 200,000,000 worth order and wadsted all my money that the total of every week which i put in and also that i didnt get no where with it. tried to reqruite people to join they aint interested.

the only thing is that when my team member didnt say to me was that u have to put money towards it. its all hoax.

money mulpulating bastard
its all money and never helped me me.


i felt depressed after all the mk products and i couldnt get rid of it or send it back so i quit

bally, you can return the $$$$ amount that you purchased in the last 12 months for a 90% buyback. Get as much money back as possible, and don't beat yourself up for falling for the scam that is MK.

Bally - What part of the world are you in?

I sent this website to my director and told her I will be telling everyone I know who's in MK or thinking about MK about it. I lost a lot of money in the few months I was in this pyramid scheme. My director wouldn't give me the number to return my products. I found all the info I needed here and didn't hesitate to tell her about it I told her thanks for nothing.She replied saying how disappointed she was in me for quitting...uhh how can you be disappointed in someone you don't even know? I told her she could stick her disappointment where the sun don't shine because I don't care that someone I don't know or care about is disappointed.We all know she is only disappointed because she won't be making money off of me anymore! Now I can spend my free time calling other MK IBCs that are stuck and telling them to come here before they lose thousands! Thank y'all so much!

So far I have returned 1,301.08 in crappy products and I get my makeup from Wal-Mart where it's higher quality and cheaper.

Congratulations on getting it figured out early, GOPgirl!

Glad you dodged the bullet!

First of all, being a former consultant, this top 10 list is very very truthful. I found out first hand how MK is not a business opportunity, but sucks the money out of you. I've read comments that "Oh my director NEVER pushed me into buying inventory, only what I need!!" Really?? Doesn't your director call you every 3 months to beg you to order enough to make you an "Active Consultant"? Does she not care if her consultants are active? That is why she recruited you in the first place, isn't it? To have a body to call her own so she can still drive her car?? yea. I thought so. And if you only order what you need, do you always pay full price for your product? What about delivery costs? Postage? gas? So you're telling me that you are making all this money and having "so much fun and enjoyment" doing MK? Sound like your ass is broke!