http://www.pinktruth.com

I thought it would be fun to tell you about some of my favorite lies told in Mary Kay. Lies? Lies, you say? But you thought Mary Kay was a “Christian” company!

Wrong! It’s a company that exploits Christianity for monetary gain. By spouting things about Christianity, they get women off their guard. Their defenses are lowered, and they’re more likely to believe the lies they’re told.

So here are a few of my favorites..

• Just one bad apple in the bunch – Sorry, but if you look at Mary Kay recruiters in general, the vast majority of them tell lies to recruit. Many of the lies are lies of omission… They don’t tell the potential recruit how low their sales really are, the true quotas that are required to move up, and the fact that an estimated 99% of women actually lose money with Mary Kay.
• Mary Kay products sell themselves – Anyone who has ever done Mary Kay knows what a total lie this is. Of course, there will occasionally be a customer who is hunting for a consultant. That’s rare. One in a while you’ll find an excited hostess who has a bunch of spendy friends at her party. That’s rare too. What we know is that the actual market for Mary Kay products is very small. There is a very tiny pool of women who are legitimate customers buying the products. There are certainly not enough of them to allow many women to turn a profit selling the products.

• Do you have a few hours a week to devote to Mary Kay? – This one is a simple con. Who doesn’t have two or three hours a week that they waste on nonsense and could devote to something productive? Probably all of us. The problem is that Mary Kay doesn’t just require a couple of hours a week. Especially not if you’re interested in making more than $25 a week. The truth is that developing a legitimate customer base takes many hours per week. You have to find prospects, talk them into hosting parties, preparing for the parties, holding the parties, wrapping up loose ends after the parties, and then do it all over again. Then there are all the meetings and “training” events that you’re coerced to attend. Quite simply, there is a lot of time involved in Mary Kay, and anyone who tells you that you can do it in a couple of hours a week is lying.
• Any statistic about success in Mary Kay (more women making six figures, more women millionaires, etc.)  - Recruiters use these made up statistics to entice women into Mary Kay. None of them are true. Mary Kay is not the “best selling brand.” But for a few select individuals, women in Mary Kay aren’t making anything close to an executive income. Women aren’t “promoting themselves” when they’re ready… they’re just trying to tread water and hope they don’t lose their teams and units. Did you ever wonder why no one presents any proof for these statistics or claims? It’s because the proof doesn’t exist and these claims are completely fabricated, but repeated with vigor by those attempting to recruit you.
• Executive income for part time hours – Just as it’s a lie that you can do Mary Kay in a few hours a week, it’s an even bigger lie that you can make an executive income in Mary Kay with part-time hours. Almost no one makes an executive income in Mary Kay to begin with . And those who do are easily working 50 to 60 hours a week, most of that during what many would call prime “family time”… nights and weekends when the spouse and kids are not at work or school and would love to see mom.
• No one put a gun to your head! – Maybe the biggest fallacy of all in Mary Kay is this statement by the pro-Mary Kay crowd as a defense for any of the wrongs that happen. They contend that women should have said “no” to anything they didn’t want to do. They had free will and should have exercised it. The truth is that Mary Kay trains women on mind games used to exploit needs and weaknesses in women, and they train women to not accept “no” as an answer. No is “a request for more information” in the Mary Kay world and they will stop at nothing to get you to change that no into a yes. So while there may be no physical gun to your head in Mary Kay, the emotional torture that you will be put through is just as scary and effective.
  


What’s your favorite Mary Kay lie?

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vintagegold   |2009-11-02 08:35:07 My favorite Mary Kay lie is the one I used to get my first 3 recruits: "I make about $275.00 per hour"! I had the sales slips to prove it, but what I didn't tell them is that I spent most of the week (15+ hours) calling everyone I knew begging them to hold a party for this "contest I was trying to win" and that was from the only party I held.

Pax   |2009-11-02 08:59:48 My SD used to tell me that I was selling Mary Kay's dream/business not mine. She said this after I commented that I could not recruit someone when my business was doing so poorly.

didpinkawhileago   |2009-11-02 09:28:35 I remember in the mid 90s, using the hanging multi storage plastic cases and creating "the total woman" which was filled with skin care plus foundation, make up etc and it retails for $99 or $150?? Canno remember but I just remember the ESSD showing it and how you present it at a skin care class how every woman sees it, she wants it!! Fat F....Chance!

thinkingpinkstinks   |2009-11-02 09:29:12 To me, although everything above is right on the money, I think the line that the products sell themselves is one of the worst. It is what gets you into this mess in the first place. It is one reason why we purchase so much inventory, and so many limited edition items, body products, etc. I really believed that women would be so thrilled to be able to purchase Mary Kay from me and reorders would continually come in. I kept stocking up thinking that reorders would come on a regular basis. I was so afraid that I wouldn't have their favorite things in stock, so I kept ordering more just to be sure. Quite the contrary, of course. Many times their first purchase was the last, or they would only order one or two small items. It wasn't worth my driving time or mailing fees.

PinkApostate   |2009-11-02 09:32:20 Gosh, since everything that spewed forth from my SD's mouth was a lie the list is long. Do I have a favorite? Maybe this one... I've been driving FREE for 10 years! MK pays for everything-registration, insurance, everything! Lie lie LIE!!! Or maybe this one: There are NO quotas or territories in MK. We know the quota lie is, well, a LIE in a big way. (See I’ve been driving FREE…) As for the no territories spiel, every idea or opportunity that I had to set up a booth, or deal with a business, whatever, my SD would take me aside and tell me that was someone else’s ‘territory’. WTH? Oh, another lie.

didpinkawhileago   |2009-11-02 09:41:59 Oh, wait= you can write off all the product you use as personal use since you use it for your job! Plus your director's suit, clothing, heels, gas etc.

raisinberry   |2009-11-02 09:44:57 Number two should have been a dead give away, the moment your Director said, the "real money is in Directorship". Everybod y gets a newsletter. Some attend meeting.The proof that nobody sells much is all over the place, IF you have eyes to see and ears to hear. But if instead, you would rather be all starry eyed and googly minded everytime your NSD blows into town, your blind trust is being exploited, because you are not applying wisdom to what you see. Do you have a star event? What level of sales in a quarter gets recognized? $3,000? Ok. Divide by 13. That sales volume represents 230.00 a week. That's your "creme de la creme". How many achievers do you have? $368.00 profit before event prices, per month. That's a Mary Kay Superstar. All the info you need to know about what is true and what is not, is available to you if you take the blinders off and just look at what is recorded in your newsletter, unitnet site, Area website...

twinkiefree   |2009-11-02 09:52:04 I was thinking, as I was driving my son to school this morning, that if I had a few honest moments with P. Shaw, I would tell her to wake up, that she is taking financial advantage, swindling women and leaving them with major credit card debt as she cashes her NSD checks. It then occurred to me that her defense (her lie) would no doubt be that, "any woman can run with this unlimited MK opportunity, because she starts with the same $100 kit that I did, and she can then go as far as her vision can see." LIES!! I fell for this blather, too, until I decided to come clean and relinquish my association with MK. If P. Shaw (or any of the other NSDs) had any shred of morals or ethics she would not spew the sames lies again and again to untold thousands of women.

freshoutofpink   |2009-11-02 09:54:07 Well, this may be one you oldtimers haven't heard for a while, but it was told to me and I repeated it several times to the unsuspecting. With regard to becoming a Beauty Consultant: "It isn't like it's a marriage. You can change your mind at anytime". What they neglect to tell you is that you actually will be married to the company, especially if you want to be a SD. And you may lose your real marriage because of it! When I think back about that stupid lie and realize just how hard it is to extricate yourself from the MK mess, I am so sorry I ever repeated those words. I'm sure many women over the years were hurt by that lie. My MK divorce cost me plenty! Time, emotion, money, self respect and self esteem. Not to mention the impact on my family! Mary Kay is lies, lies and more lies!!!

Be gone, bee   |2009-11-02 10:02:20 The biggest lie of all. "God first, family second, career third."

Rachel   |2009-11-02 10:07:06 I tell you this, not because it's good for me, but because it's the right thing to do for your business.

The Scribbler   |2009-11-02 10:14:07 "It’s a company that exploits Christianity for monetary gain. By spouting things about Christianity, they get women off their guard." Bingo. The second a woman of faith hears Mary Kay's motto "God First," they may think, "Wow!  It'd be so nice to work for a company that believes as I do!" Some folks may argue that manipulation in the sales realm is to be expected, even permissible. However, the level of manipulation is quite different between Mary Kay and say, JCPenney.  When I walk into "godless" JCPenney, I am there to buy something.  Therefore, I expect to be offered bargains and 10% off today's purchase by applying for their credit card. The relationship between customer and merchant is quite clear. With "God First" Mary Kay, however, consultants are taught to tell their potential customers/recruits that the consultant isn't doing anything close to hawking wares, we swear! We're just nice women talking to other nice women, right? "You are not obligated to buy anything!" "I just need to finish my training!" "I just want your opinion!" "I just need the practice!" I've yet to have a JCPenney cashier tell me that I'd become the woman God wanted me to be if I worked the registers like her.   Opinions, training, and practice don't pay the gas bill, sister. Just a thought.

Angelwoman   |2009-11-02 10:46:04 I agree with all of the favorite MK lies listed in the article by the writer. My favorite lie is the "Golden Rule" by Mary Kay Ash. There is no "Golden Rule" at all in MK Inc. The upline treats the downline like pink trash. The MK independent sales force bullies customers to purchase. All of Mary Kay Ash's books are filled with lies and brainwashing. Also, Mary Kay Ash's picture on "The Mary Kay Way" (Her other books as well) is a complete lie. The picture looks completely retouched. I hope that picture is not supposed to be Mary Kay Ash at 80 years old. The skin and features look she is 25 years old and has had lots of plastic surgery.

icanbecomesane   |2009-11-02 11:10:36 "I succeed when you succeed." From my SD. I succeeded in losing a LOT of money. She succeeded in cashing all the commission checks.

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 11:28:16 I was a MK consultant in 1989 to 1990. Yes I allowed myself to be talked into "it". I allowed it to ruin my marriage (ended in divorce) because I put all my attention to MK. I do run when I see a MK coming my way. At work my co-worker just joined. She does MK work at her job. She gave me samples and I decided to let her know thank you but no thanks. After 2 times, she approached me and said "do not take samples if you aren't buying...I'm trying to build my business and I don't have time to waste." Now I know why I despise MK. How to burn bridges the mean way!

kenpomom   |2009-11-02 11:29:46 "Hear my heart . ." on whatever 'get-rich-quick scheme du jour' that my SD was pushing Yeah, Hear me F*&#!

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 11:37:24 Kenpomom Ditto! Yeah, Hear me F*&#! My favorite line I was taught after a class, "how many basics would you like while I was shaking my head yes". It took me a long time to un learn the head shaking! really...

pinksedition   |2009-11-02 11:44:38 My fave is "No never means no. It just means she doesn't have information or she's not ready just yet. So, no actually always means yes in some form or another."

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 11:46:32 Hi didpinkawhileago! "the total woman" which was filled with skin care plus foundation, make up etc and it retails for $99 or $150?? +++++ I am so glad I found this site...I'm feeling healed and not alone! I did this "total woman" hanging thingie too at classes. What a joke!!!! LOL

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 11:50:54 Gosh I can relate to all of you! My fave is "No never means no. It just means she doesn't have information or she's not ready just yet. So, no actually always means yes in some form or another." ==== This is so abusive, a no means no. I was "taught" to push at least 3 times. This is why my coworker finally gave up on me - YEAH!!! whew. I said NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

pinksedition   |2009-11-02 11:53:13 Minera, the dog pic on your profile is way cute.

happynotpink   |2009-11-02 11:54:06 I really wanted to bee-lieve. Didn't we all? Even when the facts didn't add up, I still wanted to bee-lieve. But when the boxes and boxes of inventory started to pile up and I was down to only one regular customer, I finally faced the PINK TRUTH: MK sucks. Luckily I kept my job, one that has benefits, retirement and security! But I saw the tragic results of bee-lieving by watching my one MK friend who became a director in my area during the time I was in. She really admired our senior director and bee-lieved all the lies to the point that she quit her secure civil service job to do MK full-time. I know she recruited her brothers and uncles so she could finish DIQ. She told me about her debt and mountains of inventory. She worked hard and could sell product--but she was struggling. She ended up on anti-depressants. I haven't heard from her in over a year. I think she's still in her pink bubble with even more debt and inventory.

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 11:54:33 Pinks, thanks! not my doggie, I borrowed it. He is so cute!

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 11:56:13 My director must have asked me over and over to join. One day I must have been weak and I said Yes. The day I finally quit I had $800 of product. She called me when she got her "---minus check" and said how could you! I was laughing all the way it felt such a relief to be over MK.

kenpomom   |2009-11-02 11:56:41 oh, and when i expressed incredulity at the prospect of booking and holding "skin care classes", SD LIED with: "Don't worry about that! I will teach you how!"

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 12:06:39 another one: You're not "selling" you are "teaching".

didpinkawhileago   |2009-11-02 12:42:20 minerapearl- you mean you didnt sell any?? LOL They all didnt WANT IT!

pinkpunch   |2009-11-02 12:54:45 The one that really burned me up was... "You're never alone in Mary Kay." Yeah, except for the fact that they left out the words..."as long as you are producing and/or buying."  I actually said this to people while interviewing them b/c in my heart, I felt, that I would never leave someone behind or alone, especially if they were struggling in their business or new etc... It was a lie. I spent a lot of my time working with my consultants that were struggling (like 90% of them). I felt that if I spent time with them I could help build them to become successful, right? Well, that doesn't happen over night and I had $4,500 in production to meet, by the end of the month. My SSD told me, "You are wasting your time on these women. You will for sure go down. You need to focus on the new(1st time large inventory women), on the few(the women that are producing right now) and You(the person that ultimately benefits)." She said, "If you don't, then you might as well kiss your a$$/business good-bye."  I was beside myself b/c I told them that they would never be alone. What about the girl that was so shy and I convinced her that I would help her through her shyness? My SSD said, "It's her business and her responsibility, not yours. Are you going to let her take you down with her?" This was just too much weight on my heart and some of those women were my friends to boot! At this point, I started to not care if I made production or not. My SSD also said, "They have not earned your time." I said, "Earned my time?! They haven't even gotten the time I promised them?!! MK =

didpinkawhileago   |2009-11-02 12:58:27 Another one- -you cant sell from an empty wagon. Well you might not be able to sell from a full one too! -The products sell themselves. Well not really or you would not have it collecting dust in your home office, basement, garage etc -MK directors are the highest paid women in America. -Court of selling. should be court of ordering -drive a FREE car! -MK is Americas top selling brand. By whose standards? If that is true why again is it sitting in millions of homes across the US and all over Ebay?

chopportunity   |2009-11-02 13:27:51 One of my absolute fav's is 'Stars drive cars.' Whatever! Stars have huge CC balances. Also there is the 'Those who show up, go up.' I showed up for everything and still had to do DIQ 4 times and cheat to get it done. Those who show up will soon throw up! There is another group that will tell you that 'no' means yes, rapists. But isn't that what happened to alot of us in MK, we were raped and stripped of all credit, cash, dignity and self esteem.

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 13:40:50 didpinkawhileago LOL no, no one wanted to be the total woman. I wrapped, I packaged, I basketed my product until I did it 24/7...sorry but my marriage fell apart, I was just newly married too! ugh that is why I'm so Anti MK now!

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 13:43:53 chop -- rapists. But isn't that what happened to alot of us in MK, we were raped and stripped of all credit, cash, dignity and self esteem. ****************** Agree! MK says "no means yes". Well in the real world no means no, but since MK doesn't sell itself, a consultant must act like a desperate person to get a sale...how utterly exhausting. I'm so glad I have my evenings and weekends to myself now!

Out of Pink   |2009-11-02 13:46:03 Lie: Mary Kay is not a Multi-Level-Marketing company...it is a Duel - something or another - on two legs!!! Lie: In MK we give a lot of products away for free because it is based on the principle of sowing and reaping a harvest. Lie: If you want an executive income you need to get a house cleaner, babysitter, and delegate all other “non-income-producing” chores to someone else.

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 13:49:25 out of pink Lie: In MK we give a lot of products away for free because it is based on the principle of sowing and reaping a harvest. LOL --so the 2 little samples my coworker gave me broke her bank and since I'm not buying from her, she turned into Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hyde...so sad!

Out of Pink   |2009-11-02 13:58:22 minerapearl ...she is mad because her "giving samples away" is not working like her director told her it would. It is suppose to be as easy as 1,2,3...another lie. She will later be told to get as many "yes's" as she can and just ignore the "no's". Stay away from that girl!! LOL

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 14:04:13 out of pink: Stay away from that girl!! LOL --------------- I shall! I told her now I know why I don't like MK and it made her even madder! I say things out loud like, oh tonight I get to put my feet up!!!

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 14:23:11 out of pink: Stay away from that girl!! LOL ============= Maybe "she" knows that "I" know the MK in's & out's and it's making her frustrated. I heard all about...free gifts, $5.00 off, birthday discounts, girl she was working it....but I didn't fall for it nor am I in the least interested in the scam.

Out of Pink   |2009-11-02 14:35:57 minerapearl ...that poor girl doesn't know who she is up against! You are a few steps a head of her - I would like to be a fly on the wall of your office!

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 14:46:00 I would like to be a fly on the wall of your office! LOL I'm saying out loud...tonight...I'm going to take the phone off the hook, getting a nice bath & relaxing...mean while...she is probably going to dial the phone until her pinky hurts tonight!!

minerapearl   |2009-11-02 14:54:21 good night, it was so nice talking to you and hope tomorrow I can come up with some more mk lies/stories.

SuzyQ   |2009-11-02 15:38:16 Mine was "I will make you a red jacket, I will help you become a team leader and I will let you become a director." Along with, "I was just calling to see if you were going to order this month, I am trying to project production. It doesn't matter to me if you order or not." And I ended up repeating those lies to my unit, too. Monkey see, monkey do? This company turns decent competent women into horrible ones.

saucylady   |2009-11-02 15:55:49 The MK Lie: "You'll have friendships with women for life" (translated: "or until you leave MK, doesn't matter if it was the smart thing to do for you and your family" Or "Just order 1000.00 in product to finish DIQ, you know you'll sell it!" OR THE BIG LIE "I BELIEVE IN YOU" HUH!!!!! YOU, MISS SALES DIRECTOR, BELIEVE IN MY CREDIT CARD, AND MY FACE AT MEETINGS TO MAKE YOU LOOK GOOD!!" CAN I JUST SAY MARY KAY SUCKSSS!!!!!!

ciavyn   |2009-11-02 16:55:18 Um, let's see.... "Skin Care Class" as thought I wanted to teach them anything more than how to sign their name on their credit card receipt. "I'm working my business tonight." Translated, it actually means, I'm graveling, begging, and swindling. "I wouldn't be the woman I am today if it wasn't for (fill in MK lie here)." Oh, wait, maybe that one was true. I wouldn't be the woman I am today (in debt, miserable, in a black depression and considering suicide) if it wasn't for my wonderful director! "Future (fill in fantasy position here.)" "Going on-target for her car/red jacket/directorship this month!"

pinkflew   |2009-11-02 18:14:18 Okay, maybe I am too "old" in Mary Kay,I haven't seen this one - but when I was a new consultant I was taught that YOU, the consultant, are "the company" and to use that. Such as "The company wants me to compete in this contest blah blah blah" "The Company asked me to contact someone else to help me in this area, someone that I felt was sharp etc..." It makes me SICK to think how these were out right lies but I was utterly convinced my drector hung the moon and I really did only have to do what she told me to do. It made me feel so bad that I did everything she said and still struggled. I parrotted all she told me to say. She always told me that it take 9 "no" answers to get one yes. So I had to just beat the numbers. So when I went through 50 NO answers I just knew I was a failure and something was wrong.... I guess THE COMPANY was not doing something right!

stinkinpinkthinkin   |2009-11-02 18:49:34 I'm not sure this statement qualifies as an outright lie - it certainly is a MKism and it will lead you to lie if you do as suggested. "Work smarter, not harder!" Essentially the "working smarter" part is where you "LIE" to others to entice them into the business. And well the "harder" part??? We all know that is an impossible situation as you will be working harder at MK than anything else you may ever try with little to no results. I agree with all the "Lies" I've read so far. This company is just one "lie-filled" line after another

freeandempowered   |2009-11-02 19:18:02 "Just do the activity and the results will come." Thanks GMB (Queen of the Lies)

Still Breaking The Basic   |2009-11-02 19:37:10 "Our product is consumable like milk or bread so reorders are a large part of our business." Reorder is kaybonics for repeated frontloading. "Our products are cutting edge." Cutting edge is kaybonics for roll-out 12 months after other companies have released it. "Mary Kay is taught at Harvard Business School." What page is Frontloading 101 on in their course catalog? "I can show you how to turn $100 into $1,000 in 30 days." $1,000 in credit card debt, that is. "Mary Kay is the #1 selling brand of skin care and color cosmetics in the land." Sales are kaybonics for consultant purchases. Corp could care less if the product is actually sold to end-users or if it sits in unopened boxes in consultants garages, storage sheds, living rooms, dog houses, etc.

chopportunity   |2009-11-02 19:42:54 What about 'Fast is easy and slow is never.' The NSD that adopted me used that one all the time. She has gone from over 30 directors in her area to less than 15. All those fast directors had no unit and are no longer directors. Great dialogue guys!

The Scribbler   |2009-11-02 20:12:51 My SSD told me, "...you need to focus on the new (1st time large inventory women)...if you don't, then you might as well kiss your a$$/business good-bye." Time to hack and slash, go-givers; we got production to make!

freshoutofpink   |2009-11-02 20:14:04 This is a lie I'm ashamed to say I used at almost every interview: "Each person has their own circle of influence. I know different people than you know and of course your circle will want to buy from You". That one is right on top of the ol' crock of lies! It leads the prospective consultant to believe her family and friends will be beating her door down to get the product. Chances are that unless she's only 16, she's probably already been churned by another consultant or burned by the product. New IBC just doesn't know it yet!

The Scribbler   |2009-11-02 20:15:25 This one shoulda been up there, but I suppose the other pic was equally suitable for the thread.

pinkpunch   |2009-11-02 21:29:32 -A skin care class only takes 2 hours of your time. -You can "make" $300 in just 2 hours. -MK is the greatest opportunity, on earth, for women. -She "earned" Emerald star consultant status. (no she didn't, she bought it and hasn't even sold it and never will.) -You have God's favor in MK.  -If it's not income producing you are losing money so you need to "pay" for housekeeping, "pay" for a babysitter and "pay for an office assistant. Uuummm okay, so now how many miracle sets do I need to sell, in a week, to cover all of that expense? Lets see... house cleaning (mine was)= $110 office assistant a wk = $56 babysitter a wk (4 hrs x 4 days)= $112 total = $278 a wk 40% of $104 (miracle set)= $41.60 $278 divided by $41.60 = 6.68 I would need to sell 7 miracle sets, a week, to just pay for my non-income producing activities!   My SD would say, "Never say you do not have the money for ____, just ask yourself, how many miracle sets do I need to sell to get it.

thinkpinkagain?   |2009-11-03 02:44:39 Lets not forget that a Star Order is a Profit Level Order. I never understood why I had to order almost $4000 worth of inventory to 1) prove that I was serious about my business and 2) why I needed that much at once to make a profit.

backtoreality  - Another lie: " you can't be cheap on your way to   |2009-11-03 05:51:19 Yvonne Lemon was the one that said this. "You can't be cheap on your way to the top". So I was convinced to give away $100 dollars per class. I lost more money than I made... Blah!!! I hate MK! Speaking of being cheap, I was working for a cadillac sales director who probably paid for her cadillac and she didn't pay me for the last 3 weeks of work.. She said the inventory was off and never called me again. She was just acting as if I stole from her or messed up on the inventory so she wouldn't have to pay me. Enriching women's lives my butt... more like ruining them. I want to run and tell everyone not to join or buy any MK products!!

Lazy Gardens   |2009-11-03 06:10:10 Pinkflew: Quote: I was a new consultant I was taught that YOU, the consultant, are "the company" and to use that. Such as "The company wants me to compete in this contest blah blah blah" That tactic is straight from the lips of Mary Kay Ash herself! It's in her biography. Lying about a contest to make people want to help you.

Rachel   |2009-11-03 07:18:30 Quote: "Work smarter, not harder!" The way I heard, there was definitely a lie in the implication. It was part of telling us that we should be able to do impossible things like completing a skin care class with 2 hours of effort. It was a way to make us feel like it was our fault that we weren't doing well, because we hadn't figured out how to "work smart" enough yet. It really worked a number on me. I had been good at waiting tables. Good at the service part, and the selling part (once, after I gave my dessert pitch to a couple of car dealers, they offered me a job.) I'd been good at factory work, and quickly worked my way into the highest level "worker" job & was being groomed for management. I was really good at college, and quickly stood out as one of the best at both jobs I'd had since getting out of college. So I couldn't figure out why I couldn't do these things that my SD told me shouldn't be so hard. I felt like such a failure! Even after I realized she wasn't actually doing what she told me I should be able to do, that feeling stayed with me.

pinkpunch   |2009-11-03 07:36:52 -"Free" weekly training. I don't know about you ladies, but my consultants had to pay $6.00 a week at the training center -The sky's the limit, in MK. Yeah, they're hoping on your credit card -It takes money to make money. Now, in the real world, this can be true but you have to be making a nice profit to pay down your debt AND survive. In MK, you do not need to buy $2400 in product just to find out that you're only making MAYBE $30.00 a week. -Reinvest "ALL" of your profit money until you make profit level. (My SSD said that "everyone" should be at a $4200 profit level) There is not 1 business that did that or could do that b/c they would have to live on drinking water for months!! You cannot survive on that theory. Everyone has to take a % profit out just to live and pay, ummmm, like your loan payment and bills etc..!! They are not smart business women at all. This is exactly how they get these women to max out their credit card.

pinkshimmer7   |2009-11-03 07:42:45 ok here is a direct quote taken from the guest book of my former seniors unitnet site - the poor starry eyed new consultant just got her first team member after the wed night conference call in which my former snior spews lie after lie after lie.....she writes: "I HAVE A TEAM MEMBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! Too good of a feeling. Thank you for sharing such a great opportunity! I am starting to believe what you said about not being so selfish and sharing the dream." I want to be sick at the thought that she once said this to me too, of course adding in the well known "now hear my heart on this" (thanks kenpomom for reminding me of this one!!) thank god I finally saw through the dense pink fog.   ATTENTION LURKERS!! - you have to admit in your heart of hearts that you have heard at least one of these lies and if you don't - well HEAR MY HEART ON THIS!!!your LYING to youself! Thanks for this TRUTHFUL article Tracy!

Out of Pink   |2009-11-03 08:11:46 Rachel, I know exactly what you mean!! I also had been educated and capable in many different areas and I thought I was "groomed" for this type of so called business. The questions always swimming around in my head were, "how do they do it?" "what am I doing wrong?" "why is it not working for me?" I found out that...IT IS NOT ME!!!! IT IS NOT MY LACK OF CAPABILITY OR LACK OF DETERMINATION OR DESIRE!!! I felt like the biggest failure because I was watching my dishonest, manipulating, and narsistic director paint a huge lie on how to do this business. Lurkers: How pathetic to live such a lie and want women to follow you down this path. This whole business is only self-serving.

2pink4me   |2009-11-03 08:31:02 My NSD;s favorite was : "The speed of the Leader is the speed of the team." When I couldn't make production, she would throw that one in my face everytime. God, I was going just about as fast as I could, doing everything that I could possibly do to make things work and noone on in my Unit was moving anywhere. I was though.......Fast Fast into my savings account to finish up that production every other month. How about the famous "Fake It till You Make It" NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU FAKE IT YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO MAKE IT. You CAN'T make it by faking it. Better yet you CAN'T make it in MK anyway. So why even go there. How about "You need to be at a profit level inventory before you can start paying yourself or taking you BIG 40/60 cut. Please, after all your expenses are deducted from your 40% profit, that doesn't even include your time, you aren't anywhere near 40% profit margin. And a profit level inventory $3600.00 WS. You could be working for months and never see a dime and then that may BEE the exact amount that your have made.

minerapearl   |2009-11-03 09:07:44 I know you will get a good laugh: My coworker, sits next to me, a MK clone, gave me two lipstick samples to try. I was going To buy one eyeshadow. What “was” I thinking??? I changed my mind not to buy --realized I would open pandora’s box and I wrote her: I'm ok with my makeup for now...so I'm not going to place an order. Thank you for everything & the samples! MP. She emailed me back …..after she got my NO…."Friday you mentioned an eyeliner, or brow definer or possibly mascara. I am not sure which. You said that you would Look in the book and get back with me. Well just in case you forgot, I have attached a link to my website and let me know which product you are interested in. If you place you order this week you will receive a $5.00 dollar discount. Thank you for your consideration" Changing Lives One Liptstick at a Time I am a contributor to the MaryKay Foundation our initiatives are Women's Shelter,Stopping Abuse and Breast Cancer …NOW she is not speaking to me….wonder what ole MK would say about that one?

raw joy   |2009-11-03 11:38:10 Friday you mentioned an eyeliner, or brow definer or possibly mascara . . . If you place you order this week you will receive a $5.00 dollar discount. So she buys an eyeliner from Corpose for $5, and then sells it for $10 with a $5 discount. Duh, she makes no money. It's an even exchange. Seems like that little light would already be going off in her head.

minerapearl   |2009-11-03 11:45:33 Raw Joy: I "shoulda" just ordered the product and only paid $5. Laugh all the way home.

chopportunity   |2009-11-03 11:53:31 Punchie, my former SD used the,'You can afford anything, just hold an extra SCC,' line all the time. I can so relate to what you wrote. You can go to CC, just hold a SCC. You can afford a housekeeper, just hold a SCC. Need money for Seminar, hold a SCC. Jeez, how many blasted SCC's a week would I need to hold to do all of that? Thanks for sharing that!

chopportunity   |2009-11-03 11:57:10 Hey 2pink4me, did your SD ever consider that your team's failure to produce was also a reflection of her leadership according to her philosophy. What they really mean by, 'the speed of the leader is the speed of the team, is to use your CC to make up the difference.

whatwasipinking?   |2009-11-03 13:02:46 You're in this business for yourself, but not by yourself. What a total lie! First of all, this is not a business, secondly, unless your SD is making money off of you, she has nothing to do with you.

pinksedition   |2009-11-03 13:11:41 I can't remember if this has been posted yet but here's another one: "Don't reinvent the wheel. Just follow the formula and do everything your director tells you to do. You can't lose. With Mary Kay, we can fail forward into success."

minerapearl   |2009-11-03 13:24:12 Here's one: I was taught to say this after I got a No called The Feel, Felt, Found "I understand how you feel, I felt the same way too & here's what I found" (like they don't have $$ to spend & here's how they can find $$)

raisinberry   |2009-11-03 13:25:27 Can we add the "bee story" here? That aerodynamically challenged little critter just doesn't KNOW he can't fly..cause God whispered in his ear, "You can do it!" Bees dont have ears, God didn't whisper, and he's not aerodynamically challenged with too big a body for his puny wings. He's perfect. He displaces exactly the lift he needs by oscillating wings..not batting them like a bird. Take that, mary kay.

minerapearl   |2009-11-03 13:33:31 Raisinberry....Oh wow...I remember the Bee story...and the bee pins we wore! LOL great one!!

pinkinthered   |2009-11-03 13:35:19 How about "Enriching Women's Lives".? The only lives that were enriched were the credit card companies I had to employ to support this "opportunity".

kirads09   |2009-11-03 14:10:53 "the number one best-selling cosmetic on the market". How in the world can they verify and claim that? Corpse does not even track actual retail sales. They are only concerned with IBC's wholesale orders to the company.

raisinberry   |2009-11-03 15:11:21 Wait. Here's a Big Lie for You. Introducing Million Dollar Unit...Sandy Superstars! How about 650,000 Unit Club, Cathy's Credit Catchers! And the ever popular Queen Of SALES...Holly Wholesale Doubler! Ain't a ONE of them recognized for the truth!

Still Breaking The Basic   |2009-11-03 15:14:29 How about the Queen of Recruiting - Frieda Frontloader?

freshoutofpink   |2009-11-03 17:50:05 Here's a fat lie for you: "You need to be a star consultant and complete your power start. Those are the two pins all directors look for on a lapel. It means your successful and serious about your business". Ummm... no it doesn't! It means you got frontloaded and that the people who let you "borrow their face" are a one time possible purchase if they purchased anything at all! Sorry to burst your pink bubble!

onelessSD   |2009-11-03 21:50:35 My favorites are: Just consistantly do 3+3+3 and you'll get where you want to go. (ha!) You'll never work harder than when in DIQ. (good grief! I worked sooo much harder to stay a director than I did while getting there!) I make executive income while working part-time from home. America is the land of opportunity - and Mary Kay is the opportunity of the land! (now, I do believe that America is the land of opportunity - the MK thing - ) (.. thinking hard trying not to repeat others!.....) There are more women in MK making over $50K a year than anywhere else in Corp America. (once again ) alright - that's all I can come up with tonight. Off to bed!

pinkpunch   |2009-11-03 22:33:06 Oooh, how about: Short term pain for a long term gain   It's more like, long term pain for a long term financial strain onelessSD wrote: Quote: Just consistantly do 3+3+3 and you'll get where you want to go. (ha!) I know for a fact that the my SSD did not do anything consistent except LIE! Now that, she did do consistently and, for her, it was easy as 1,2,3 in 3+3+3 seconds!

MKAlaska   |2009-11-04 02:30:15 I've been an active Mary Kay Consultant for over 28 years.  I don't have any recruits. I stock about $2000 in inventory, and have taught only 1 skin care class this year. I have over 200 active customers who call when they need products, and come by my house to pick them up. I'm usually a Star Consultant every quarter. I love the product and so do my customers. I never nag them, never try to sell them products they don't want or need, and always give them a gift with their purchase. My director is the BEST and has never nagged me to buy more product than I need. The company has changed a lot in the last few years, and I think Mary Kay, herself, would not approve of many of the changes, but the product is still the best I've ever used, and the retail prices are comparable to other high quality skin care/glamour products. God first, family second, career last...that was what drew me to the company in 1981. I had 3 young children and a very supportive husband.  He had a paper route, and I sold Mary Kay. I asked him awhile ago if he thought I should quit Mary Kay because I also own another very successful business. He thought for a minute, and then said,"Hon,it's a part of you now."... So, I'll keep buying and selling Mary Kay until my hair turns gray & I wear it in a bun! I just wanted to share my own success story in Mary Kay.

Pax   |2009-11-04 06:36:51 How nice for you MKalaska. Now how about talking about all the expenses you've had to incur over the years. How about talking specifics about how much you make after expenses a year. Oh, better yet, why don't you post your Schedule C from a few years (with all personal information removed of course). Because without out this type of information you just wasted my time. Oh, and if you've been in MK for 28 years you already have the gray hair.

raisinberry   |2009-11-04 07:07:38 Hey Pax..ALASKA? How many malls do you think are within 15 square miles? There are over 1,000 consultants within 200 square miles of my town, from 5 Seminars. It used to take about 35 hits on Consultant locator just to see your name for the first time! God forbid if you weren't a STAR! BUT YEA FOR NO TERRITORIES!!! NSd's do not care about sales-they care about recruits... If they made their money based on actual retail sales, they would all be living under bridges in refrigerator boxes.

didpinkawhileago   |2009-11-04 07:26:41 In all fairness, this is an old timer and most of the oldtimers built their business like this and she maybe in a selling area and not one of the GMB type areas. Sadly this is not the way MK is now. Its all about recruiting.

pinkpunch   |2009-11-04 07:28:11 Hi MKAlaska, Normally, a person knows exactly how many customers they have and if you send out Look Books etc..., then you should know exactly. Anyway, let's go with 200 customers... It's fair to say that on an average a customer will spend $50 every quarter/3 months (some spend a little more but some spend a little less). You said that you keep $2000 in inventory and that you are usually a star consultant, right? So let's do the math, shall we... 200 customers divided by 4 quarters =50 customers   50 customers x $50 = $2500 (now we all know that expenses are more then 60%/40% split but I'll be nice) $2500 x 40% = $1000 profit in 3 months ($333 a month) Now, again you said that you carry an inventory of $2000, which is double then what a "real" business person would carry/need according to their customer demand. Also, again, you said that you are usually a star consultant Let's do the math.... $2500 x 60% = $1500 (which is $300 short of a sapphire star order and with no section 2 items ordered, free gift with purchase ordered, shipping, bags, Books, sales slips, profile cards, samples etc..) MKAlaska wrote: Quote: and always give them a gift with their purchase. Now, if you are using your profit to cover that star consultant status... Profit $1000 - $300 = $600 $600 divided by 3 months = $200 a month $200 a month divided by 4 weeks = $50 a week (again not including expenses)   This figure does not include any specials/discounts that you may be giving out, either. Once again, another liar! You picked the right front page to post on, though! One of our favorite lies spoken by a true Kaybot is...how well they do in MK!!   Miss MKAlaska, I think you would be better off selling Hot Chocolate!

vintagegold   |2009-11-04 08:46:57 MKAlaska - Mary Kay products are not high quality. Read the ingredients. They once used high quality ingredients. They bank on the fact that new consultants don't know otherwise anymore.

onelessSD   |2009-11-04 09:02:08 MK Alaska - I give you kudos for being polite, we appreciate that, thanks! However, Pinkpunch has a point, if you really dug in deep and looked at the data (without names attached) - you might find your situation isn't so rosy. I'm not trying to be critical, just analytical. If you just feel you love doing what you're doing, and how you're doing it - and not worried if you actually are making much money, then continue on - who am I to say that you're wrong. The picture you described just sounds a bit too rosy for reality.

kenpomom   |2009-11-04 09:07:09 Quote: "Hon,it's a part of you now."... PLEASE make it stop.

Past Pink   |2009-11-04 09:23:18 Wow, the lies that I believed when I was in the fog. Pink Truth is my guilty pleasure. I haven't been involved in MK since 1996 except for personal use which I quit 3 yrs ago. I am just continually amazed at all the different ways they have to reel you in, and how fogged people can become. Someone who posted on the discussion board posted about reading from Merchants of Deception, so I was able to read several chapters online and I was floored. I was shown the plan once against my will, invited to a meeting that I did not attend, so I was clued in that it was a pyramid from the get go. I don't know how to properly articulate what I found and felt as I read this man's account of his experience with "The Business" (Amway). The same lies, the same deception, the same "Dreams". The same building up of the "Millionaires", showing off the Caddies, the diamonds, the furs. Couples devoting all their time, energy, and resources in a business designed to enrich the upline, while depleting their resources. All the while chasing the elusive dream of the "good life". Being told that a job, was "Just Over Broke" or some such nonsense. Paralled the MK experience exactly. Recommended reading for anyone even remotely considering any of these selling/wholesaling/whatever network marketing schemes. Also, anyone who has walked through the pink flames and come out on the other side will certainly identify with the descriptions of the information used as mind control. I could not believe how much the descriptions of all the Seminars, Leadership meetings, weekly meetings, big Rah-Rah sessions were exactly like what all of us experienced in MK. Right down to the sleep deprivation and hunger I felt at Seminar, as well ast the major cost of everything. After all these years out, I look back and can't believe that I fell for the scam! I heard so many "I" stories from Super SDs about their vactions, their homes, their diamonds, their big commission checks. They all misprepresent their actuall earnings. The lies mentioned in all the previous posts? I was told each and every one, believed each and every one, repeated each and every one as I was recruiting, and am ashamed of it all.

Pax   |2009-11-04 11:02:47 PastPink, Please don't be too had on yourself. You believed what you were told, like all of us were. The important point is how you handle yourself going forward - paying it forward in a positive way. That is what matters. We all have had cringe worthy memories and I just try to remember that I don't have to live that life any longer.

The Scribbler   |2009-11-04 12:09:36 "I've been an active Mary Kay Consultant for over 28 years. I don't have any recruits." I can't pass up credit to where it's due. My view is if you can sell MK honestly and make fun money, then I am all for it. The second you start recruiting, however, is the second you strap a time bomb to your morals and key in the ignition codes.

chopportunity   |2009-11-04 12:14:08 Something to point out is someone who has been in MK for 28 years should have an established customer base. 28 years ago you did not have all the competition you so now with on-line ordering and QVC. There is a new skin care line being born everyday. Also you did not have the market saturation with MK that you do now. My former SD has been in 28 years and she has a solid customer base but she is not recruiting many and she has no offspring directors even after 26 years of being a director. The average shelf life of a consultant now is about 3 to 6 months. Times have changed. Punchie, loved how you spelled it all out in black and white. Info like that is what should be taught at sales meetings but then that would make recruiting almost impossible.

MKAlaska   |2009-11-04 13:27:28 I guess you get what you ask for when you sign up to be a consultant. I asked for a part-time job that would provide supplimental income while I was raising 3 kids. That's what I got with Mary Kay. That's what I still have after 28 years as a consultant. I'm sorry that so many of you had horrible experiences with the company. It has changed drastically in the last few years, and many of the changes are not good for the consultants: product changes, price increases, smaller product sizes for the same or higher price, but that's how most companies work. I never got caught up in the competative climb up the ladder of success, but I still use and sell the product, and wouldn't do it if I didn't think it was one of the best skin care lines available AND a profitable business. I'm sorry so many of you had terrible experiences with Mary Kay, but unless you were literally "brainwashed" into signing the contract, and were mind numbed robots, YOU made your own choices. The company is NOT blamless, but neither are you. If it didn't work for so many, it would have disolved by now...and still could if the Company continues to make stupid and unnecessary product changes. I'm fortunate to own another full-time business (picture framing), so I'm not totally dependent on my Mary Kay income, like some consultants are. My dad used to say "eat the meat and spit out the bones"...translation: take the best of every opportunity and reject the rest. If Mary Kay works for you, embrace it. If it doesn't, quit and find something else that "fits," but don't waste valuable emotional energy slamming others who make it work. P.S. Did you know that "Fifty is the new 40?" And, you don't have to be gray unless you choose to be.

pinkpunch   |2009-11-04 13:57:16 MKAlaska wrote: Quote: If it didn't work for so many, it would have disolved by now... Uuummm, not true, again. The devil is still around, isn't he? The company relies on how many people will continue to hurt and destroy others for there own financial gain. The people who have no conscience, self centered and only care about themselves will stay and keep the business going. We know that a lot of them are brainwashed and if we can reach out to them, they can and will snap out of it and leave MK. Hopefully, by doing the right thing and helping others out, the company will crash and burn. It depends on how many women are willing to sell their souls all in the name of trying to reach that false dream of success, recognition and money.

chopportunity   |2009-11-04 14:24:58 Dear Ms. Alaska, take your own advise sweetie and don't slam those of us who challenge what you post. With 2 successful businesses I am wondering how you can find the time to become so emotionally involved with PT that you felt the need to post.

jonaris   |2009-11-04 14:45:05 She was here for a reson...so maybe her eyes are opening. Everyone has to take that first step...

Rachel   |2009-11-04 14:59:07 Quote: I guess you get what you ask for when you sign up to be a consultant. Seriously? You're saying those of us who had bad experiences asked for them? Quote: I asked for a part-time job that would provide supplimental income while I was raising 3 kids. Yeah, that's what I wanted, too. Didn't get it. I put in more time and effort than I ever wanted to, and ended up with more debut for my family. Really not what I asked for. Quote: It has changed drastically in the last few years... I don't know. Some of the people here were in it 20+ years ago, and many of them tell us it wasn't as different as some people want to think. And the changes that have happened, are mostly the results you'd expect due the fundamental flaws of the business model. MLM is MLM. Quote: ... but unless you were literally "brainwashed" into signing the contract, and were mind numbed robots... That's a pretty accurate description of what did happen to many people. And certainly, when the people who are giving you the information you use to make a decision, are giving you bad information, they bear some of the responsibility. Quote: If it didn't work for so many, it would have disolved by now... That's an optimistic view, but as long as they manage to keep enough people in the dark as to what really goes on, they can, unfortunately, keep going for a long, long time. Amway has proved that.

Rachel   |2009-11-04 14:59:38 More debt for my family. Not debut.

Black Nova   |2009-11-04 15:05:11 I actually appreciate MKAlaska's honesty. She's not just a mindwashed 'bot. She's enjoying selling on the side; she has a real job and that's fine. She seems realistic about the product changes and how they only benefit the company. I don't think we've ever said that, as a hobby, MK is fine. It's just that Corporate portrays it as something that can support you full time, and it can't for 99% of the people who try. Scribs!!! As usually, your comics are great! You've got Tia Dalma's voice down pat!

stinkinpinkthinkin   |2009-11-04 18:14:55 WOW Alaska - spouting the MK party line. Me thinks many of us were not the only ones who experienced the "pink brainscrubbing"

Happy to be ME   |2009-11-04 20:26:01 Yeah Pax Dreams are great, but they do not pay the bills.

Happy to be ME   |2009-11-04 20:41:42 The free car is my favorite

Happy to be ME   |2009-11-04 20:46:39 Oh wait. The free car is not my favorite. The best lie is the NSD were once consultants just like the newbie. They had to work just as hard as the newbie. That you can not "buy" your way up - - LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE (did I say LIE LIE enough) If you already have money and credit cards out the yang, you can and they do "BUY" their way up the "ladder of sucess" LIE LIE LIE

MKAlaska   |2009-11-04 21:20:11 I give up! I just ran across your site while I was searching for information on why Touch of Pink is no longer available. Their site provided a much needed service. Your site is vicious. Sorry I interupted your hate fest.

Lazy Gardens   |2009-11-05 04:21:52 Ms. Alaska said, "I'm sorry so many of you had terrible experiences with Mary Kay, but unless you were literally "brainwashed" into signing the contract, and were mind numbed robots, YOU made your own choices." You've been in for 28 years ... do you know how recruiting is done now? One NSD says, "Find her hot button and push it". Whatever the recruiter needs or wants, Mary Kay is presented as the answer.  Recruiting and that all-important big first order is done in a rush because the upline knows that if the recruit doesn't sign on and order big within 24 hours, she's either not going to sign or will place a tiny order and that is not good for the upline. I have a training document from NSD Pam Shaw explaining how to calculate how many recruits you need to bring in with how large an order to get the commission check you need ... nothing in there about helping the unit sell more stuff, just how to recruit and frontload. With the omission of critical facts, such as car co-pays and production quotas, the number of active and ex-consultants in an area, the real quotas, etc. the recruits can't be said to be making a real choice. (it's as if the Marines recruited without saying anything about getting shot at) Add that to the blatant lying about highest checks (waving the $5,000 commission check from 6 years ago as if it were last month's), and the overall "fake it till you make it" mentality and you do not have an atmosphere in which quality decisions can be made.

Lazy Gardens   |2009-11-05 05:19:29 MKAlaska said, "I just ran across your site while I was searching for information on why Touch of Pink is no longer available. Their site provided a much needed service." You mean you had unsold, obsolete inventory to liquidate? Or know people who did? The huge quantities of unsold inventory in the hands of current and ex-IBCs is a symptom of the problem.

Hunney   |2009-11-05 06:34:40 MKAlaska said: Quote: Your site is vicious. How is it vicious? From where I stand, Pink Truth is just being honest about what REALLY goes on. Thank heavens for this site!

didpinkawhileago   |2009-11-05 07:32:43 sometime honesty is vicious. Maybe there is a market way up there in Alaska. But here on the mainland, esp big metro areas, its saturated.

chopportunity   |2009-11-05 08:29:20 I am sorry Ms. Alaska that you think we are vicious. We simply addressed what you posted. I found your post to be a bit of a jab at those of us on PT that had negative experiences with MK. If you post on here, we will challenge what is posted especially when it is implied that we are stupid, easily led women who got what they deserved. Glad your experience was different. I just wanted to point out that after selling MK for 28 years you should have a customer base. Those just starting now will find it far more difficult to find customers as the market is so different. That is just the truth. And yes, Touch of Pink did provide a service to overstocked consultants but alas MK Corp did not see it that way.

pinksedition   |2009-11-05 09:01:54 Alaska, your remarks toward us have been thinly veiled nastiness. You have insulted our intelligence (we are over 5,000 strong on here; it stands to reason that this is not a stupid convention), you have negated our collective experiences, and then accused us of having a hate fest because we are telling the truth. You are the one with the problem. What happened to Touch of Pink was a gross injustice. We are free to express our outrage over it. It's not out of line nor is it unreasonable whining from sore losers. It was morally and ethically wrong what transpired on the part of Mary Kay Cosmetics.

chopportunity   |2009-11-05 09:06:49 Thanks PE, very well said. I take issue with those that post on PT implying things and not just saying what they mean. Then when challenged they run off like spoiled brats crying about how mean we all are.

The Scribbler   |2009-11-05 09:07:47 "With the omission of critical facts, such as car co-pays and production quotas, the number of active and ex-consultants in an area, the real quotas, etc. the recruits can't be said to be making a real choice." Absolutely. I have a real problem when drones come on here and caw, "It's your fault - you should have educated yourself!" knowing full well that they are being taught to spew recruiting lines like, "After our time together, you will have all the facts needed to make an educated decision." Some NSDs have gone so far as to say that a recruit's family and friends can only provide opinions, while the MK recruiter is the only one who can provide facts.  Unfortunately, they will be facts that paint the company (and their $3600 inventory packages) in the best possible light. If Mary Kay culture were truly secure in their setup, they would say, "Go ahead, take your time and do your research on sites like Pink Truth. Once you've read both sides, make a choice that's best for you." Or they'd give PT a quick wave of the hand and a giggle.  "Go ahead and check out PT - you'll get a chuckle because it's so far off-base! I mean, look at this:  "Directorship is like filling the tub with the drain open?" Come ON, no director has that problem! Instead, there is a feverish frenzy to divert any future recruit or questioning IBC from seeing the information presented here. "It's pink porn!" MK leaders cry. "It's of Satan! They don't do God's work! Educate yourself, but don't go to Pink Truth; go to NSD Pam Shaw's website and learn how to apply for that MK Visa straightaway!" There's an awful lot of negative fear coming from MK's leaders. Why?

pinkpunch   |2009-11-05 09:16:42 Lurkers -Please Read: This will be the cold hard facts. I say "cold" b/c I'm just going to say it like it is, although my intentions are not to hurt one's feelings but to state the obvious.... Since everyone may have a different opinion on the words/meaning of  "successful business" let me point out some things and then, ultimately, let "You" make your own decision. The most important question of all is: What do "You" want and/or expect from any business? Not just MK...any business adventure that you may be seeking. Next: Are you looking for profit and income to survive or are you looking to just have fun, meet people and make a few bucks a week? After asking yourself those questions, and answering them for yourself, you now know exactly what you are looking for, right? If you are looking to just meet people, have a little fun and make a few bucks, then you are just looking for a hobby. If not, please read on... My hubby and I own a business. We have had it for 11.5 years, now. We have 10,353 customers (this number changes weekly b/c we gain new customers every week, from advertising and word of mouth) Although, we gain customers weekly we have, also, lost customers due to the recession, job losses and people moving out of our state. Right now our customer base is a juggling act (lose a few/gain a few). So lets do some more math: 10,353 customers divided by 11.5 years = approx. 900 new customers a year = approx 75 customers a month (Are store caters to more, not all, wealthier people so you will not see Wal-Mart shoppers there.) It's hard to say an average purchase b/c we have customers that spend $100-$300 but then we have customers that spend $600-$800 at a time. So it's fair to say the average purchase is around $400. 75 customers a month x $400 = $30,000 (of course this is not including the deduction of expenses) $30,000 divided by 4 weeks = $7500 a week BUT, we do well and are able to provide a nice life style (according to "my" opinion of success) and we live in a slightly above average size home. I, personally, consider us successful (not hugely successful but comfortable and happy) b/c we are happy, with where we are in life, right now. Like I said, everyone's perception of success will be different but let's compare, in order for you to form you're own opinion. Let's compare MKAlaska: 28 years in MK 200 customers 200 customers divided by 28 = 7 customers a year 1 new customer every 2 months   (Again, do "you" consider that successful? It's your call, your opinion and your life.) I personally, do not but MKAlaska does. A few posts ago, I found (from the info that she provided) that she makes approx $50.00 a week (not including expenses)  Again, I personally, do not find that to be successful but she does. Also, please do not take this the wrong way but MKAlaska said: Quote: I had 3 young children and a very supportive husband. He had a paper route , and I sold Mary Kay. Now, here's where I may sound mean...but personally, in my opinion, I do not find, having 3 kids and a paper route, successful. That's just my opinion. If they are happy with that, then great. Just like MKAlaska is happy with her business. Now, I do not know if her husband is currently in that same position b/c she did not state otherwise. But, if he is, "I personally", wouldn't take business advice from him.... MKAlaska said: Quote: I asked him awhile ago if he thought I should quit Mary Kay because I also own another very successful business. He thought for a minute, and then said,"Hon,it's a part of you now."... ...nor would I take business advice or ask for help on a business decision from a man working the register at the local gas station. But that's just me and my opinion.  Bottom line is....get ALL of the facts, lay it out, seek out people that "you" feel are successful according to "your" theory of success. Read between the lines and add it up just like I did and then make "your own decision". Again, what do you want out of your business or are you looking for a hobby?

onelessSD   |2009-11-05 10:54:34 HonestConsultant - thanks for returning. Come back often to keep the education going. When you decided to read & post on this website, you are reading and hearing 1,000's of years of experience wrapped up in all of us. There are women who've climbed very high up the ladder, some who've hit and maintained SD status, and women who (were smart) and stayed at the consultant level. I hear you when you say, you've built your business to the level you're comfortable with and enjoy- that's fine. But don't call us names, just because you don't like what your reading. The fabulous gals that have taken the time to "show up for class" and respond to your comments have spoken to you truthfully. If it sounds negative to your ears, sorry - but it's the truth. What you choose to do with your "free education" is up to you. You can tell others about how 'mean' we are, how 'negative' we are - that's cool, they will probably come here themselves to check it out and receive a part of their "free education". I know I did when I was told - I thought, "geez, I can't wait to give those negative & bitter women a piece of my mind". When I arrived and read - I realized that there is more truth to what is said than anything. It converted me and made me see that the 'dream' I thought was so great, was nothing but a fallacy. So, please - spread the word - teachers are standing by to continue the excellence in education across our nation!

chopportunity   |2009-11-05 12:17:02 I want to be clear about something. I did not attack Ms. Alaska, I simply pointed out the fact that 28 years ago things in MK were completely different. I also wanted her to see our point of view. I found it odd that she chose this particular article to share her experience on. This was about MK lies, not MK success stories. I post to challenge things I do not agree with. I may attack their point of view but I try not to attack them personally. I also post because I know there are many people coming to PT for the other side of the coin. Most of us know first hand that you do not get that kind of info from MK or your SD or recruiter. Ms. Alaska's poinat of view can be found in any MK sales meeting or pro MK website. We are here to present the other side. This is called a debate. Ms. Alaska herself began to throw tomatoes and once challenged found it necessary to attack us personally. I will not let that go unaddressed. Sorry if anyone has a problem with that. I just know that if I had not ben confronted by many of you when I was still deep in MK, I may still be stuck, losing more money, deeply depressed and still wondering why I could not make it work. I am thankful for all of those who challenged me and helped me to think and evaluate. I want to do the same for others. Sometimes the truth hurts.

chopportunity   |2009-11-05 12:19:02 Sorry about the errors in my last post, computer is acting up and I was typing to fast.

didpinkawhileago   |2009-11-05 12:21:23 I would hate for lurkers to come here and see pinkpunch putting down others just because they work at a gas station or deliver newspapers. Also seeing your guns laoded because someone peed in your cherrious this morning saying she was happy with her $50 a week business. If anything lurkers can see- keep it as a hobby instead of business and you will be happy. But dont expect to make executive income selling 2 lipsticks a week.

MKAlaska   |2009-11-05 12:47:56 Hi Pink Punch... Your math doesn't add up. I'm not going to devulge how much money I make selling Mary Kay...but it's definitely enough to make it worth it or I wouldn't continue. My husband and I both have "real" jobs...he "retired" from his paper route 28 years ago and is an administrator for a large Native corporation. I own my own very successful business (picture framing) that takes up most of my time and energy. I respect your right to give your opinions about Mary Kay. My experience with the company and my director have been pretty positive...can't you respect my opinions too? I don't disagree that there are many, many in Mary Kay, maybe most of them, who are letting their greed rule, but there are some, like me, who are glad to be part of the company, and are doing it the right and ethical way. I'm grieved that so many have been "burned," and I totally understand why they are angry...and it is a righteous anger, I'm sure. I don't mind being slammed by you all if you think it's necessary. I won't argue with you...your anger is valid. Maybe just realize that there are probably many consultants who actually have a positive experience with Mary Kay, and that should be encouraging not condemned. I'm glad that this site (Pinktruth) is available. I'll probably continue to "lurk" just to keep informed.

chopportunity   |2009-11-05 12:57:53 Ms. Alaska, that is great that you had a good experience. That point of view has many platforms. It is presented weekly at sales meetings and is printed in each Applause magazine. PT exist to present the other side. If our anger is valid, why call us brainwashed robots?

chopportunity   |2009-11-05 13:03:17 Punchie was making a point she even pointed that out. She was not putting down anyone. She simply pointed out that if one was looking for business advice they would seek out some one qualified to give it. Dave Ramsey often says the same thing on his radio program. He is blunt but honest and so in Punchie. I stand with her and I value her posts.

icanbecomesane   |2009-11-05 13:27:57 Thanks Chop for saying (what I couldn't) so clearly.

pinkpunch   |2009-11-05 13:30:26 Again, I said that if that's makes you happy then that's great and if that's your idea of a successful business, then that's great, too. What I want others to know is "what your idea of success is" and to take a look at it for face value (your numbers that you provided) and decide for themselves if that's what they are looking for and is that what they would consider as success. That's it. If they do...then great! Just like all of the SD's that told us how happy and successful they are with their MK business, too. When we found out the face value, of their opinion, of "success" (they feel happy and successful, too!), we decided, for ourselves, what was best for us. Obviously it wasn't what we thought or were told. I felt that this was similar to that situation.

Past Pink   |2009-11-05 15:11:39 My SD completely misrepresented the amount of monthly income to be expected in the form of a commission check if I reached SD. I was also told that DIQ was the hard part, but it would be worth it. I was told that the average SD makes 4k monthly. I was told that the car was free, then learned that there "could" be a co-pay if you don't meet production, but that rarely happens, you'll be fine. I really only wanted to sell the product and get mine at cost when I signed. I lived in a rural small town with few retail outlets when I signed, and had some good customers. The SD kept on until she convinced me with misrepresentations and half-truths that I could replace my salary, until I decided to go for the car and DIQ. My salary was small, but my benefits were good. Anyway, it is a rare consultant these days that is not hounded to recruit and try to do MK full time, when maybe all they want is to get their products at cost. THEY WILL TRY THEIR BEST TO GET TO YOU AND THEY USUALLY DO......WITH LIES. MKAlaska just escaped some how.

Past Pink   |2009-11-05 15:13:17 I don't mean to sound so bitter, just posting to reinforce that it's not just a rare SD that is misrepresenting. They all do.

chopportunity   |2009-11-05 15:30:03 Pastpink, your story is the same as mine. I got in to sell to a few people and get my product at a discount. But after attending meetings and being told by my director, who has been in 28 years that I could make $4,000 per month while driving free, I decided to go for directorship and that is when all the debt started. Thanks for sharing. I believe our stories are the norm and not the exception.

MKAlaska   |2009-11-05 16:11:28 I must have the rarest of the rare Directors. She has never nagged me to buy more...she's just there when I need her. Her unit is smaller than most but effective. I haven't actually seen her face to face for 20 years. She stepped back from MK for awhile waiting for a kidney transplant...one of her offspring directors donated one to her! I guess that's the true "Go Give" spirit! Success isn't always measured by the money we make...but by how we spend it. Just curious to know what product you use now if not Mary Kay? Is there a comparable one on the market? It's been so long since I used something else.

vintagegold   |2009-11-05 16:41:34 There are many products that are just as good as MK and cheaper. Study the ingredients in MK. They don't have enough of the "anti-aging" ingredients in them to make a difference. The reason that they get away with all of their advertising claims of "anti-aging" benefits is because ALL moisturizers can legally make the claim that they "minimize the look of fine lines and wrinkles". That is why there are new skin care lines coming out every day. You can mix vaseline and water, add some glycerine and some other ingredients, call it an amazing anti-aging breakthrough, charge $1,000.00 per ounce and it will be legal AND people will buy it because there will always be women desperate to regain their youthful appearance.

icanbecomesane   |2009-11-05 17:36:06 PastPink, You do not sound bitter. You are simply telling the truth.

company sucks   |2009-11-05 18:25:37 I love the one my sales directors used at meetings and recruit appointments and especially mine! She told me she started MK at the beginning of the month and circled the end of the same month to quit. She had to borrow the $100 from a friend. She was also $65,000 in debt. By the end of the month, she was completely debt free. I didn't realize it until I was wayyyyy in that she would have had to sell $130,000 worth of mary kay that month in order to pay off her debt. Isn't that a great big LIE!!!

chopportunity   |2009-11-05 18:58:29 I personally use Bare Minerals foundation and the Philosophy SC line. I have also tried Oil of Olay and find it much improved and Garnier has some good products out. As far as glamour is concerned I have been using Sephora and E.L.F. I used MK exclusively for 20 plus years but began to have an alergic reaction to the Timewise products. After I left MK and returned product, a friend took me to Sephora where I had a facial and I have had a blast discovering new things. Once fun thing about PT is that we all share what we have tried and if we like it or not. I have learned a lot about many different products from my pals that post here.

gotheart   |2009-11-06 15:57:42 didpinkawhileago.............. how old are you? 12? mkalasssssska....... ......how old are YOU! yad think ya could comprehend the life line pinkpunch was throwin out to the lurkers.......... your math is pitiful get a calculator with all that money you are earning! seeya wouldnt wanna be ya!

MKAlaska   |2009-11-06 16:57:51 58...how old are you?

MKAlaska   |2009-11-06 17:20:26 My math skills are fine. I used to teach Math to Junior High kids. But, come to think of it...I do need a new calculator...thanks for reminding me. I wouldn't want you to be ME either. seeya too!

RoseRuse   |2009-11-06 22:19:14 My favorite lie was the one that a SCC was the solution to all your problems - short on rent? Hold a SCC! Need Christmas money? Hold a SCC! Unexpected car repairs? Hold a SCC! We actually chanted the "hold a SCC" after our SD asked us the questions. Blech.

dupedbypinkfriend   |2009-11-07 10:04:21 Quote: I'm sorry so many of you had terrible experiences with Mary Kay, but unless you were literally "brainwashed" into signing the contract, and were mind numbed robots, YOU made your own choices. The company is NOT blamless, but neither are you. Man, that was rude! I do not blame myself for believing the lies that I was told. I was not brainwashed. I followed the teachings of my upline, and guess what? It was lies mixed in with exaggerated half truths. Quote: My dad used to say "eat the meat and spit out the bones"...translation: take the best of every opportunity and reject the rest. If Mary Kay works for you, embrace it. If it doesn't, quit and find something else that "fits," but don't waste valuable emotional energy slamming others who make it work. Quote: My experience with the company and my director have been pretty positive...can't you respect my opinions too? Quote: Maybe just realize that there are probably many consultants who actually have a positive experience with Mary Kay, and that should be encouraging not condemned. It is obvious that you did not read the Welcome section: Quote: Pink Truth does not offer what some may call a “balanced” view of Mary Kay. Why? Because there are few redeeming qualities in a company that abuses hundreds of thousands of women a year. Companies like Mary Kay are abusive systems that create negative consequences for the vast majority of participants. Because of that, there is no such thing as the “right way” to be involved in an MLM. The system itself damages the vast majority of participants and is therefore something this site cannot and will not promote in any way. Now, some of us do not hold true to this very important tenet of this site, but many of us do.

MaryKayExploitsWomen   |2009-11-07 22:18:34 Dear Ms. Alaska Mary Kay Lady: 1. I am glad you like Mary Kay, kudos to you. 2. Have you read the book, The Secret? It will change your life. It changed mine. I never laughed so hard in all my life! 3. Please read about the abusive lying and recruiting tactics that Mary Kay directors use every day, it will open your eyes. 4. I can't believe you went 28 years without need to recruit. But then again, if you have your own actual business full time, I can see you getting by without recruiting. 5. Do you know Sarah Palin? If so, please tell her I said hello. She is one of my most favorite nazis for Christ. Thanks. Love, huge, kisses, and lots of makeup, MKEW

pinkpunch   |2009-11-08 09:13:22 "We only build women up and never tear them down" Really? okay, then explain this one... How many of you were told, "It's your own business" or "You are your own CEO"? So many consultants join and think that it's their "own business" and that they are "their own CEO". Think again.... Here's my own experience which contradicts that quote.... I remember when I was having a really hard time with a consultant. She "appeared" to be not very nice, negative, very out spoken and giving everyone a hard time (~ahem~, asking too many questions, out loud, at the meetings). My SSD called me, on the phone, and said," You know, "You" are her sales director and "You" hold the power whether she sinks or swims." A thought like that never entered my mind? Weren't we here to help others succeed? I mean, I know I'm here to succeed, too, but....??? Didn't you say, "We only build women up and never tear then down." ?? So much for that quote, too! It's funny how easily they twist that stuff... "Well, we can't have a person like that here! She's so negative and contaminating to everyone!" She only wanted answers. She was trying to run her business the way that she was told she should (selling the product) but she would come to the meeting and see all these people that are doing so GREAT! She didn't realize/know that they were either, lying about their success, bought it and didn't really sell it or it was just a 1 time, wonderful class for someone. After she was gone, my SSD made it a point to everyone that she was someone to stay away from b/c she failed. "She is bitter and a failure and will try to take you down with her."   So basically, it's not you should do as your sales director tells you to do in "your" own business....it's you better do as your sales director tells you or else...your out! (of course this excludes women that do not go to the meetings BUT b/c you don't you will not get her time or very little, if you help with "your" business. She will tell you that you need to show up at the meetings. Do you see the vicious circle?

chopportunity   |2009-11-08 20:46:04 Is is a full moon? the nuts seem to be out in full force lately.

sherineill   |2009-11-09 07:39:17 Quote: Can we add the "bee story" here? That aerodynamically challenged little critter just doesn't KNOW he can't fly..cause God whispered in his ear, "You can do it!" Bees dont have ears, God didn't whisper, and he's not aerodynamically challenged with too big a body for his puny wings. He's perfect. He displaces exactly the lift he needs by oscillating wings..not batting them like a bird. Take that, mary kay. I remember telling EVERYONE this one. I still can't believe I thought it was true (D'oh ). It wasn't until years later I researched it and realised how uneducated I sounded. I cringe at the thought of it.

The Scribbler   |2009-11-10 14:03:47 "It's not "You should do as your sales director tells you to do in "your" own business"...it's "You better do as your sales director tells you or else you're out!" Agreed, Pinkpunch. NSD Dacia Wiegandt is one of the many MK leaders teaching directors to dump anyone who won't follow/agree with their teachings: "If someone is not willing to take the director’s advice and work, the director should not push her, but move on." That being said, look at this "How-to-have-Mary-Kay-succ ess" quote from NSD Pam Shaw: "Are you AT your unit meetings? Many want success, few take the direction and guidance to receive it. (Unit meeting weekly with guests, star consultant order monthly...)" According to this quote, Shaw claims you'll get success in MK by 1. Going to unit meetings and 2. Bringing prospect meat to the recruiting hyenas. What happens if you don't agree with going to weekly hype sessions or choose not to recruit? Bye bye negative birdie...you haven't earned the favor of the exalted.  How quickly Mary Kay's god turns his back on you when you decide not to perform for him!  And how different this false god is compared to the God of the Bible who says in Hebrews 13:5, "Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."

onelessSD   |2009-11-10 16:15:16 Scrib, you always say it well. Thank you! The god of MK is fickle - it sways with the wind, and is tossed to and fro. Sad but true that many women fall prey to the constant need of approval from their SD's and NSD's. That's not the place to get your worth, because your worth will always be tied to how much you bring to the table. As long as it's benefitting the higher-ups, you're in their good graces. If that ever falters, watch out - your support system just left the building. Also, MKEW - it's not necessary to bring up a political figure in your message. MKAlaska may or may not agree with Ms. Palin - but it has no bearing on who she is here. Just thought I'd mention that.

fashionopolist  - "You can quit your day job"     |2009-11-10 20:11:18 I think the biggest MK lie is that you can quit your day job, kick back, and sell Mary Kay. See, generally when I go to Target, I am not working. I am shopping. When someone comes up to me at Target and tells me I should be a skincare model, they are not shopping. They are WORKING. You know who else sells on the street corner? Prostitutes.

onelessSD   |2009-11-10 22:10:34 fashionopolist - so true, so true! I used to "hit up target" all the time, stalking fresh meat. Even though I did it- I hated it, but I was running out of ways to meet new people. Geez, young and stupid, I was! Puts a whole new spin on "workin' girl"!

The Scribbler   |2009-11-10 23:03:58 OnelessSD, you're a sweetheart - thankies to you! "You know who else sells on the street corner? Prostitutes." And that's to say nothing of the fact that some pretty hardcore MK action takes place in the wee hours of the morning, as in: "Jenny and her team worked hard and believed and finished up at 12:45 am on the last day of the month......WOOOOWWWW!!!!!!" ; Bow chicka charge charge!

4freedom   |2009-11-17 11:17:59 I may have missed this one on this post: "MKC has your best interests at heart" or "Always trust the company - they put the sales force first". I remember the first time I heard this as a new consultant I thought "What the heck?" I'd never worked for a corporation where anyone felt the need to say something like that. You just assumed the co. was out to make money and that's OK because we live in country based on capitalism. So when I heard MK SDs say that, I thought how weird? Before the pink fog set in, that should have sent up red flags because it sounded so insincere from the women who were saying it. I'm ashamed to say I passed that lie along as a pink fogged SD. Now I see in hindsight that all those promotions and stuff were NOT in our best interest.

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