http://www.pinktruth.com

It's not always easy to get information about the real numbers in Mary Kay. The company is private, and therefore not required to release any information about the sales or the independent contractors. The company does offer some limited information in its press kit, but that's about it. 

For several years, Mary Kay Inc. has been representing that it has 700,000 independent consultants in the United States. The last time I saw this figure from a Mary Kay source was 2007.  I've been left wondering how things are going.

But I finally got my answer... Mary Kay told "Direct" Magazine that there are 600,000 consultants in the United States. That's down over 14% from 2007. This is even worse than the 7% drop in sales directors Mary Kay saw, going from 14,000 to 13,000 between 2007 and 2008.

Obviously I'm thrilled to see that fewer women are getting sucked into Mary Kay. I don't know the reason that the numbers are down 14%, but I don't care. Fewer women being conned into this money-losing proposition makes me happy, no matter the reason.

And in case you're wondering, the "negative websites" did get mentioned :

Like every big corporation, Mary Kay has detractors. A quick Google search brings up several sites run by former reps and customers who had less than optimal experience with the brand. Shasteen's team monitors the sites and message boards but doesn't actively get involved.

“We let the market work that out,” she says. “For all the naysayers, there are plenty of people who've had positive experiences. The primary thing for me is to make sure I'm aware of the discussions that are going on. There may be business issues that need to be addressed, and we need to get to the root of what may be causing negative feelings about the brand. But we don't participate in those conversations.”

"Less than optimal" experience with Mary Kay? Can you say spin? No one can read Pink Truth and possibly call our opinions "less than optimal." As if we're complaining about a shade of lipstick or one detail about the compensation plan.

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The Scribbler   |2009-01-19 03:05:58 From the article: "What's next? Mary Kay is conducting an extensive research project called “What Women Want,” which explores women's desires and attitudes in key areas of their lives..." Seen on the project's questionnaire: 1. What do you like about the job you currently have? What would you change? 2. Do you feel like you need a change in your life? I believe Mary Kay comes into our lives when we need it the most. 3. If I taught you everything I know, do you think you could learn?   ;D

pinkpeace   |2009-01-19 06:54:12 Well, hi Rhonda! It's nice to have you here, and I'm serious about that. Quote: The primary thing for me is to make sure I'm aware of the discussions that are going on. There may be business issues that need to be addressed, and we need to get to the root of what may be causing negative feelings about the brand. But we don't participate in those conversations. Rhonda, the problem isn't so much with the brand. You know that there are many here who still like and use Mary Kay products. What's causing the negative feelings is the entire MK business model which allows only a minuscule percentage of women to make a reasonable income, while the vast majority lose money. I realize you can't do anything about that and still keep your own job. But surely you must know that in this dire economy, the 30%/30%/30% model will shift to maybe 20%/10%/70% or worse for the company. The market is indeed "working it out." Are you sure you want to be part of that?

havurah   |2009-01-19 07:19:07 The pyramid is petering out! This company and its business model have churned through too many bodies and the credit crunch precludes frontloading of the few new recruits who can be convinced to sign up. The days of easy credit are over and if a new IBC cannot get the purchase approved by the card issuing bank, she can't be frontloaded. If she can't be frontloaded, the commisssion earning pyramid steps above do not make enough commission to justify the effort expended into recruitment. We know that we cannot sell from an empty wagon, but it is the credit card who will decide how full the wagon will be and there are no more new credit cards to acquire to use to place large orders. Predatory directors and uplines can do all of their end of month entreaties to downlines and recruits, but the well is dry. There is no amount of prayer meeting and evangelical cheerleading for find a way, make a way that will release credit from a godless bank. Those days are over. Recruitment can increase as unemployed women look for a lifeline, but no bank will approve any more unsecured debt in order to buy any products for resale that are readily available in the commercial market and that cost more than their similarly financially strapped potential customers and recruits can afford to pay....especially with a credit card. Rhonda can monitor us all she wants. We are warning off the sharp women who have the wherewithall to investigate the offer before thay sign on. The credit squeeze will save the other recruits from themselves by limiting the available credit limit and precluding frontloading. No matter how much a new recruit may desire to open a full store at $3600.00, the bank may only approve $200.00. Consultant numbers may not drop exponentially, but the order amounts will and that is what will force the business modelers to rethink the opportunity. We can only hope!!!

DLPSOY   |2009-01-19 08:06:23 Excellent information in this article and the "Direct" magazine article! Thank you!

havurah   |2009-01-19 08:10:11 I forgot to add that the directors and uplines are under the same credit limitations so that even they will not be able to make up for the unit's production shortfalls and the credit will also be limited when having to make the copays on the cars due to the same production shortfalls. Many cars are going back to the Mary Kay leasing corporation.

fantasygirl   |2009-01-19 08:24:13 From the article: Directors also hold weekly sales meetings with consultants to introduce new products and offer makeovers to test them. This portion of the article pushed a hot button with me. All of my unit sales meeting were based on deception. We were told about the new products only after placing orders for the older, now outdated, obsolete, now on pink sale products, even though my SD knew months ahead of time about this. Makeovers to test them? Another deception. My SD: Invite a sharp women to our studio for a makeover and tell her you just want her opinion on our products. Once she is here a SD will give the SCC and you can earn while you learn. This turned into nothing more than a recruting event and I would end up feeling so uncomfortable. 80% of the facial was spent on recruting and how much money you can make. Once the guests would start to look at the clock or say they had to leave the SD would rush through the SCC. No focus on the products or what that did for you. What happened to asking her opinion? Oh but don't worry you can learn so much more later because everyone here gets a follow-up appointment with their IBC. Who in their right mind would now come back for a follow-up appointment? Now on to the specials that we have just for being here Blah,blah,blah. I just could no longer in good conscience bring anyone to these meetings anymore. I love most of MK products but hate the whole premise around MKC. I no longer attend any event that has anything to do with MK, the whole concept was just a total turnoff to me.

fantasygirl   |2009-01-19 08:29:24 oops sorry I mispelled the word "recruiting" so many times! ;D

Post_It_Note_Dutchess   |2009-01-19 09:10:26 I got an email today from the SD in my area... I think you all will love a good laugh. Dear Consultants, Please return the attached paper to me filled out with guests names. I must receive them by Friday as I'm leaving Sat for the Director meeting in Phoenix.... If your guest wins ...you win !!! Just return the whole sheets to me and I'll cut them up. Use attached form .....preferable on card stock but not necessary Go for the Grand contest CONTEST DATES: September 1-December 31st 2008 Drawing will be held on Jan 26th at the Piro Director Evening at Leadership. Enter guests for the following A Guest’s name will go into the $1,000 CASH Drawing for: 1 Entry … For Hostessing a Show   1 Entry … For a Face-to-Face interview or attending a MK Event 1 Entry … For participating in a 3 way call or listening to a Tape/CD/DVD 10 Extra Entries … When she joins the Company!

Post_It_Note_Dutchess   |2009-01-19 09:11:18 as you see--- they're trying new ways of recuriting

The Artist   |2009-01-19 09:24:08 What's next? Mary Kay is conducting an extensive research project called “What Women Want,” which explores women's desires and attitudes in key areas of their lives. Results will be available during the first quarter. “That'll set our strategic platform in terms of how we interact with women over the next three to five years,” Shasteen says. Rhonda - we wanted to make money - earn a living - help our families. We didn't want to be scammed and bilked out of our money and churned and burned. We wanted to learn how to sell. It says in the article that you taught selling and product knowledge at one point. Today in MK women are taught only to recruit. That's it. We have to beg for anything else. So, save your research budget - operate with a few less reps and teach them how to be profitable, knowledgable, and successful - and you'll be golden!!

The Artist   |2009-01-19 09:25:02 If that's possible of course!

raisinberry   |2009-01-19 09:30:19 Hey Rhonda. How've you been? Listen, we get the market "working it out"...That's "Mk speak" for they are hoping to purge all the unethical-("successful" Directors because in this market (precisely as Pinkpeace mentions) easy credit is a thing of the past, and so weak units will go by the wayside. But Rhonda, that not the core problem. You have a culture problem. You all think that living in the pink bubble is the correct strategy for staying positive and avoiding negativity. THAT is the problem. It was THAT problem (pollyanna gone mad) that prevented everyone from stating the REALITY of what they were experiencing. It was THAT STRATEGY that prevented problem solving in earnest, and it is INAUTHENTIC because it fosters LIES...nowhere in business do managers, supervisors, workers or CEO's succeed by "faking it till they make it"---but Ponzi scheme runners do! "Spin" is a euphenism for LYING. Let me give you an example. For one of your last interviews you said the OPPOSITE of this loss of consultants truth. You made it appear that MK was doing so great! YOU SAID THAT "AUGUST" had DOUBLED consultants over August last year, to make it appear that Mary Kay's consultantship was on the rise. And You FAILED to mention that MK had a $100 Rebate offer going for August on starter kits, to give you your inflated number. It is this spin and masking the truth that is at the bottom of how this thing got so far out of control---and why you are paying for it now...and Rhonda, you are part of the problem. You just proved it.

Satin Lips, I Quit!   |2009-01-19 09:33:19 First - that photo of the Caddy is freakin' hilarious!!! From the article, "We'd never really focused on the brand before and thought whatever perception the consumers carried in their minds was OK. But with a mature market in a mature industry, you can't do that, especially today." YOOZERS - The brand perception = blue eye shadowed, bright red wearin', little old ladies from Fried Green Tomatoes! My 20-something friends thought I was absolutely nuts to join the company. But, I think that's where the focus is going with sales force. The shift to 20-somethings is bc they don't know much about the brand...they're also more naive on the history of MK (sorry other 20-somethings, but true!). I did fall into that category...I thought my generation was going to freshen the company's image! NOT! No amount of brand marketing is going to help this sinking ship! I also loved in the article where they said that Olay was their biggest global competition...did consultants/SD/NSD say that their competition was high end retail stores like Clinque, Lancome, etc??? WAKE UP CALL :o...it's drugstores brands. MK is way too overpriced to have them as their market competition.

Satin Lips, I Quit!   |2009-01-19 09:37:06 Raisinberry - YOU GO GIRL! Well put!

raisinberry   |2009-01-19 09:52:29 Oh and did you catch that other Misdirection from Rhonda...it was lightening fast, a quick slight of hand..."There may be business issues that need to be addressed, and we need to get to the root of what may be causing negative feelings about the brand" Negative feelings ABOUT THE BRAND? Well you may be grouping the whole enchilada here, but is it the brand that is the problem or the PERVASIVE DISHONESTY OF THE MARKETING PLAN, DISHONESTY OF THE SALES LEADERSHIP and their TRAINING METHODS,AND DISHONESTY OF CORPORATE that is ruling this fire?

Out of the Pink   |2009-01-19 10:17:05 It has nothing to do with the brand!!!!!

raisinberry   |2009-01-19 10:23:29 Olay is their competition, along with every other mass merchandiser because of Walmart's world wide reach. It's distribution that makes this happen, and MK tried "pearl" level to affect that...but alas, you have to Sell the Sh/t in order to recruit more profit centers or else friends don't suck other friends in. For some reason, being able to effectively SELL the product to an end user as the mechanism to add more sales and more recruits....has utterly escaped corporate comprehension. IT IS THE SUCCESS OF YOUR CONSULTANTS THAT DRIVES YOUR GROWTH, but snatching their credit lines was just oh so easier, huh MK?

pinksedition   |2009-01-19 10:31:21 Yeah I noticed that little misdirection there and also that she copped to reading all the "negativity" which is a big no-no but didn't directly participate in the conversations...yeah right. I bet she bitches about MK incognito.

dupedbypinkfriend   |2009-01-19 10:32:17 It actually has to do with the stigma attached to Mary Kay Cosmetics: old ladies' creams and cheapo makeup. You'll never rid yourselves of that image. And now, in the information age, you've been branded: CORRUPT! You did it to yourselves. We're just the messengers.

sodone!   |2009-01-19 11:52:42 Great research Traci! I don't know why but that Guardisil commercial is coming to my mind.......Sodone Says, "I'm glad to be one less." Yep! One less Sales Director that is!

Baroness von SügarScrüb   |2009-01-19 13:03:42 Rhonda, your problem is Mary Kay is just a pink-washed Amway. That truth is getting out (thanks to PTers) to sharp women who would otherwise believe the lies about your Mary Kay opportunity told to them by their recruiter and "leaders" in your company. Face reality, Mary Kay is a product-based pyramid scheme. I'd start looking for a new job with a reputable (non-MLM) company if I were you. And that goes for the rest of Mary Kay's corporate employees - and especially the independent "sales" force.

Day Radiance lover   |2009-01-19 13:24:19 Hey all, I would like to ask a question; Who in the world is Rhonda? Never heard of her before and would like to know who she is and what is or who is Shasteen's team? thank you in advance for your answers, DRl

Tabitha   |2009-01-19 13:43:31 Rhonda Shasteen is the Chief Marketing Officer for MK corporate. She is in charge of Mary Kay's "image" - and we're her real competition!

SuzyQ   |2009-01-19 14:56:51 Hi Rhonda! So good of you to stop by! I hope you are spending some time reading the comments because you are getting the real story here! And by the way, the brand is NOT the issue. I know you must talk about brand identification somewhere, but with all of the changes in the product packaging over the last three years, MK has lost it's brand image. Big mistake. Huge. Watch the upcoming product changes--> for everything MKC changes to increase sales, you lose more and more of the brand image. For us on PT, it's like watching a major accident in slow motion, horrifying and riveting. We have a little problem with the economy and since there is no brand ID with MK anymore, it's hard to market to women who can buy equally effective, lower priced skin care and color cosmetics at WalMart, CVS and Walgreens. It's sinking ship time, Rhonda. You might want to hire a head hunter and get while the getting is good. I'm just sayin'

Still Breaking The Basic   |2009-01-19 15:11:09 Rhonda: You missed the negativity mark. It's not so much the brand but more the way IBCs are trained to book-recruit-frontload that turns women off. Dump the "you can't sell from an empty wagon" mentality. It works for Avon. And if you're watching the competition, Avon's C-4 brochure is offering their business opportunity in an under-stated way. The product isn't totally off the hook either. The line has been re-done so many times that you've lost your product identity. The pink-to-silver compact change irked a lot of IBCs and customers alike, but the complete change to black has turned off a lot of customers to the color line altogether. You could learn a lot about brand identity from Clinique. The clarifying lotion 2 in my bathroom is the same as the first bottle I bought back in 1976. If you don't actively participate in conversations about MK's negative aspects, you're not going to solve anything. Unless your interview in Direct Magazine was another piece of pink fluff to mollify the NSDs.

chopportunity   |2009-01-19 15:28:41 Hello Rhonda and all of you from corporate who may read this. Keep reading you may learn something, I did!

pinksedition   |2009-01-19 15:30:06 Well spoken, Breaking The Basic. MK is spending what appears to be an increasing amount of time doing ads, publicity, etc in an effort to strengthen the image of credibility without really acknowledging the true issues regarding the brand and marketing model. To do so would speak volumes to the public and sales force that there is, indeed, some integrity remaining in corporate and support dedicated to real innovation brand wise and marketing wise and not a bottom line of just dollar signs. For now, the products are over priced for their performance and constant changes, the marketing model is outdated, and its insidious practices and lack of integrity will be its own destruction.

raw joy   |2009-01-19 16:03:43 I liked how MK returned to television advertising two years ago. I guess she means that 30-second commercial that they aired four times? ;D

ooohh whattodo   |2009-01-19 17:50:47 The average Mary Kay beauty consultant is married, college educated and in her mid-30s, with a greater-than-average household income. Quote: And you wanna know why that is Rhonda? So that those wonderful Sales Directors can recruit the women who have MONEY!! If they are married, then they have thier husbands money to spend, college educated, sounds great when they tell thier I-story "Oh, I have a college education, but I'd rather do MK!" and lastly ABOVE AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD INCOME - again, all about the money, not the money you can MAKE selling Mary Kay, but the money you will spend on INVENTORY in MK - this article is awesome, but Rhonda, face it, there are thousands of woman whose mind you won't change in whatever you do. Mary Kay still sucks to us...

windycitygal   |2009-01-19 21:24:50 Dear Rhonda, Here is what I would like you to know from my experience. 1) There is too much emphasis placed on a Positive Mental Attitude and affirmations rather than sound, fundamental retail principles. 2) Recognition given for ordering instead of selling. Director's give out cheap junk for insignificant activity. It creates mediocrity. 3)A myriad of selling approaches [i.e. the roll-up was big when I was in, hostess games, etc.] Every director had her sure fire way for high skincare class sales. National brands embrace consistency. Every McDonald's is supposed to offer the same experience. All these approaches add up to wasted time and inefficiency. 4) Other inefficiencies - all those guest events and the expectation that one should attend even when guests bail out. The razzle-dazzle distractions appears to us here to mask an empty shell of a business opportunity. MK says it offers a real opportunity for a successful income. For some that may be true. It wasn't for me. I am not stupid and I devoted 10 years of full-time effort. I was not going to be a quitter, but thankfully external circumstances rescued me. I now watch my dear friend who is still in the pink bubble after 20 years. She is now single, [no longer subsidized by her husband] works the plan faithfully in 60 hour weeks, and cannot support herself. She has no savings, and no off-spring directors. What can MK offer her? I challenge you to look at Directors like her and evaluate THAT business issue. She keeps chasing new training that will be the key to 'turning her business around'. When MK success is based on frontloading and playing the recruiting lottery, how will my friend ever be successful in your company.

madamchair   |2009-01-19 22:52:16 Aw, shucks, Ladies! You're giving Rhonda way too much good information that she just might use to re-market and do all that image stuff she was blathering about (if she's got any sense). However, on the other hand, she does represent MKC.

lightershadeofpink   |2009-01-19 23:01:41 Oh, Rhonda . . . blah, blah, blah. It all sounds new but not. Read PT and learn.

180degrees   |2009-01-19 23:40:05 Rhonda and her cohorts may not participate in discussions with people at PT, but after the antiPT instruction to IBCs in their weekly meetings, the IBCs faithfully defend their beloved MK here on a regular basis. So sad that MKCers don't put on their big girl (and boy, lol) panties and take us on themselves. They have to let the newbies, and other stalwart followers do their work for them. We'd love to see you "model" what you spew! For any newcomers here, MKC is Mary Kay Corporate (office).

raisinberry   |2009-01-20 01:37:31 WindyCityGal, you are so right. I would like to believe that MKC is trying to turn it around--evidenced by the DIQ link to corporate, but here is why you can never take MK, Rhonda, NSD's, Richard or Darryl seriously. There is no repentance. Repentance might sound like an antiquated word, but it is the core activity that tells the ones wounded by the behavior that was PREACHED and CONDONED, that history will not repeat itself. When someone wants to simply have their wrong forgotten, without ever really facing the magnitude and ripple effect of what they did, they really have no plans to change. In those cases, they really do not deserve forgiveness. From the words of Jesus Christ in Luke 17: 3 Take heed to yourselves. Yet if your brother should be sinning, rebuke him, and if he should ever indeed ******, forgive him. 4 And if he should ever be sinning against you seven times a day, and if he should ever be turning about seven times a day to you, saying '**************,' you shall be forgiving him." The missing words? "repent" and "i am repenting". According to Jesus, forgiveness is predicated on hearing, and IF he repents, forgive him. Rhonda and staff can monitor all day long...reaping the fallout of New IBC's who find us and decide they want nothing to do with this foolishness. But how long can you really go, ignoring the wreckage your greedy NSD's have wrought? How long can you pretend this is something it is not? Enjoying yourself at Leadership Conference under false pretenses? Rallying the troops to go back home and do more of the same? If you will not admit that it is standard operating procedure to OMIT facts, distort outcomes, deny the full costs, embellish sales figures, Hide behind PMA, manipulate under the guise of salemanship, Spiritually abuse unit members with amateur pastoral teachings and flat out abuse of scripture, LIE about year end sales results, COVER for Director's who have illegally obtained production, look the other way on obvious cases of lack of integrity, under the convenient un-accountability of "independant contractor status".....then we will not stop warning your "next generation" of recruits and Directors. Stop treating women like powderpuffs who couldn't handle real business concepts and ACTUAL results. INVESTIGATE.

MYcomfortzone   |2009-01-20 10:21:20 Amen Raisin! Rhonda- How do you sleep at night girl? I hope you're saving a nice chunk of that nice salary they're paying you...since you'll need if when the ship goes down. And it will go down someday. Or maybe before that happens, you'll grow a conscience!

windycitygal   |2009-01-20 11:54:23 Raisin, thanks for endorsing what I wrote. I agree with you as well. If MK Corp would honestly look at what goes on in view of their God, 1st...credo they would be ashamed. They are too greedy to run the business honestly. If they tried it would be evident that it isn't much of an opportunity. I feel they have a 'don't ask, don't tell' understanding that allows Christine P's line, the Allisons, the Dacias, etc to do what they do. I suspect in the future there will be a greater disparity between what is carried out by NSDs and SDs and the 'opportunity' that MK corp promotes as they try to offset what is told on PT. MK Corp will whitewash reality while allowing an escalating charade to go on. PT is the voice of truth and I appreciate that what we post here is out of a desire to do good not harm. We want to spare others our pain and suffering.

Lazy Gardens   |2009-01-20 12:31:01 Quote: The most popular products in this country include the TimeWise skin-care line and a new refillable eco-friendly compact. Which "refillable, eco-friendly compact" is she talking about? The original one that was made deliberately obsolete by a change in product shape, or the subsequent one that was made obsolete by a change in product size? Or the next one, probably to be unveiled at the Valentine's Day MassaKre.

Lazy Gardens   |2009-01-20 12:33:58 "Globally, Mary Kay's biggest competitor in skin care is Olay. In cosmetics, it varies with the region — Maybelline and Cover Girl are its closest rivals in the United States." So much for the department store brands. I think I can find all of those as close as my neighborhood Walgreens.

pinkpeace   |2009-01-20 13:00:29 And I'm going to add that the Olay Regenerist line ROCKS. My skin has never looked better! ;D

Acapella   |2009-01-20 15:47:52 Hi Rhonda : Out of the 600,000 consultants that are in the U.S., how many are actually doing anything. I know many consultants in my Area who years ago were placing the big orders. They were doing the Court of Ordering consistently for years. The veil has lifted and they might place a $200.00 once for the quarter if needed; or every six months. They are only ordering what their customers are using. No more star orders or court of sales. I have seen my Director try every trick in the book to get an order. Her production has been sinking. I know that she has not re-qualified for her caddy. With easy credit going out the window, let's see how many of them survive.

company sucks   |2009-01-20 20:39:11 Hello everyone, I have been gone along time! Thought I would come back and visit. I have to tell you of the episode of "Married with Children" I saw the other night. Boy, they had to be making fun of mary kay. Peg became a makeup saleswoman for "Patty Cosmetics". Guess who her number 1 customer was, herself! Her husband told her that was the only way she got commission checks was because she bought it all herself. It was great! I have to go finish supper for my husband, I hope to be back later.

Still Breaking The Basic   |2009-01-20 21:32:07 Company Sucks: Remember the episode where the dog got a credit card? He could have been Peg's first recruit.

pinkpinkustink   |2009-01-21 14:36:34 Shasteen's team The market is saturated here in Northern California (not SF or Bay Area, more north than that)and no one can make decent money doing this here now unless they frontload ladies who they know will quit in three months! This is a problem! The reason they quit....THE MARKET IS SATURATED! I worked hard and my average show was about $80. People don't want to be harassed by IBC's and the in home part is out of fashion. I worked about 25 hrs a week and made about $5 and hour for a year. I am saying this out of experience as a former team leader. You need to change the "NO Territories" thing so that your IBC's have a chance to be successful without frontloading!

pinkpinkustink   |2009-01-21 14:39:38 I meant to say that the at home party is out of fashion. If you want to make them cool again, them start advertising them on your national commercials and romance the in home party again!

pinkpinkustink   |2009-01-21 14:40:29 Shasteen's team You must listen, or you are a part of the problem and therefore condoning it!

Queen of Section 2   |2009-01-25 18:59:59 Raisinberry said: Quote: ...but alas, you have to Sell the Sh/t in order to recruit more profit centers or else friends don't suck other friends in....IT IS THE SUCCESS OF YOUR CONSULTANTS THAT DRIVES YOUR GROWTH, but snatching their credit lines was just oh so easier, huh MK? Wow, there you have it in a nutshell, folks! I haven't been on in such a long time.  Boy was it worth it to sign on this evening and read that nugget. Bravo, Raisinberry!

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