http://www.pinktruth.com

I've long felt that Avon is really no better than any other MLM out there which pushes recruiting and building the pyramid. For years, Avon did have more of a focus on retail sales, but the profits to be made from doing so were very low because the products have such a low pricepoint. As Avon lost market share and watched other MLMs grow exponentially, management realized the key was recruiting.

Over the last 5 years or more, Avon has shifted to become more of a recruiting-focused operation, with inventory frontloading a new and exciting part of the company. And so Avon is just as damaging as the rest of the MLMs I oppose. One of our readers provides this insider's perspective on the business of Avon:

Avon is a pyramid scheme now. When I try to bring this to the attention of reps on the internal messageboard, they attack, as expected.

But this must be searchable on the internet. Is Avon a pyramid scheme? Yes.

In 2008-2009, Avon has instituted huge bonuses for Leadership. And not just one bonus scheme, at last count, two bonus schemes that can both be earned at the same time. Now Avon has added yet another bonus scheme open only to the women in Leadership. I believe they can all be earned together.

We are talking thousands of dollars and gifts, too.

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Acapella   |2009-03-24 13:00:40 About 4 months ago I went into the Avon store to purchase some children's bubblebath, and they were trying to invite me to a meeting the following week. After my experience with Mary Kay, I said no way. I just ordered the bubblebath and kept going. I can really see that they are into recruiting because that had never happened to me before when I went to the Avon store.

angelia42   |2009-03-25 06:44:17 What they don't tell you about leadership up front is that, unlike Mary Kay, you have to pay for a "kit" (so much for the $10 start-up fee) and you only have so much time to get your first several recruits. That bothered me when I was a part of Avon. Granted, there's the MK push to recruit as quickly as possible, but if you wanted to build your team over a few years, you could. Not with Avon. In fact, I think you need to recruit so many before you see a dime, and if you don't get enough team members within a certain time period, it's all for not. It's like an extreme recruiting blitz with the added insult of paying for it!

Post_It_Note_Dutchess   |2009-03-25 07:53:57 MLM is like a deer running in front of your car. Once you make contact- you'll end up paying out money hand over fist. That's depressing... Good thing there's ebay. I can buy what I want and never meet face to face with the person.

Queen of Section 2   |2009-03-25 10:19:46 Amanda, it's my opinion that MLMs *hate* Ebay for the very convenience it represents. There is no impulse purchases, no high-stress/hard core sales pitch to contend with. No recruitment dialogue. We just log on, bid (or commit to buy) and that's it! It's my observation that Ebay has the biggest piece of the (MLM) pie. I think that's why Mary Kay is picking on TofP. Not because they're selling product, but because all the customers buying from them are in effect protected from predatory MLM recruiters disguised as sales ladies. Sucks to be them!

Queen of Section 2   |2009-03-25 10:24:02 Oh and think of all the Section 2 crap MKC is sitting on. With recruitment down and a dwindling prospect pool, all that Section 2 stuff that they would make ridiculous $$ on is just sitting on their shelves collecting dust. Pendulum seems to be swinging .... ;D

ILikeRedBetter   |2009-03-25 10:42:47 This is really scary. Thank you so much for your story! I too have noticed an increased focus on recruiting with Avon. In the past I would see an Avon commercial about new products, every once in a while, but never anything about recruiting. Now, for the past month or so, I have seen a ton of Avon commercials about how they have an "opportunity" for women that "doesn't exist anywhere else". It's really annoying because it's in EVERY commercial break!! They must be desperate. Sounds just like MK and every other MLM. As far as Ebay selling MK and Avon products: good for them! The more people that buy it on sites like Ebay and TOP, the less $$$ that MLMs like MK and Avon make.

bn724   |2009-03-25 13:18:41 I am a former MK rep who has been visiting your site for a while now. Some posts I agree with and some I don't. Mostly, I just visit for amusement and education. This post I wanted to comment on, though. Yes, I am now an Avon representative. I returned to Avon after my short stint with MK. I had done Avon about 20 years ago, but tried MK first for some extra money, because of the 50% straight commission/discount. I knew that Avon's was a variable discount. However, MK just didn't work for me. I was unable to get people to agree to parties and/or facials. Maybe, I didn't work it hard enough, maybe not. I am now back with Avon for 3 years, and am really happy with my decision. My customer base has grown through some effort, though not 24/7 effort. With respect to the leadership aspect of Avon, yes, the post is correct, it is MLM based. Yes, it is being pushed by corporate, probably because reps come and go on a regular basis. But, leadership is a choice. If you get a recruit, you can elect to go into leadership or, you can take a straight $20 referral bonus (with no commissions made later on that recruit's sales. The post is correct that in order to receive commissions off your recruits, you have to have 5 active, and you and your unit have to attain a certain sales level. It differs from MK in that, you can lose your downline and/or don't receive a commission off your recruits' sales, if you don't meet the requirements. With MK, as long as you stay active, you don't lose the recruit or the ability to earn a commission off their "sales/wholesale orders". I am also a Unit Leader with Avon. But, it is not something I actively pursued. As a result of my efforts to find customers through booths at fairs, tailgating, etc., I have gotten most of my recruits. The extent of my recruiting effort is putting a recruiting label on my brochures. Most, if not all of my recruits, have sought me out to sign up, not the other way around. I do not agree that Avon pushes inventory frontloading. They will push stock-ups. But I tell all my recruits, "if you don't think you call sell it within 2 weeks, don't take the stock-up". I may be rarity, but I don't think so, based on my conversations with the other unit leaders in my district. I have found that Avon is based more on "genuine" retail product sales that wholesale sales. I caution my recruits on buying inventory because that's their earnings sitting on a shelf. I will say, however, that if a rep buys product in anticipation of sales that don't materialize, it is very easy to return the product to Avon for a 100% refund of the price paid by the rep. Another benefit I have found is on the subject of meetings. They are held every 1-2 months, and I wish it was more. There is never a charge for a meeting fee, and I always come home with FREE stuff, samples, sales tools, Full size new and discontinued products. As with MK, I am sure that there are former Avon reps who fee they have been burned. You will find greedy uplines in both companies. That has not been the case with me. Oh, and I guess I was lucky, my MK director was a great lady, and was definitely NOT what I have seen described here on this site. I want to thank PT for the MLM education. Now, I really know what to look out for. Other MLM's have tried to recruit me, and right now, I have a Market America rep that is actively chasing me because (based on my sales level with Avon), she thinks I will make a whole lot more money with them. Talk about a pyramid scheme that is based only on recruiting and not actual retail sales!OMG! Mona Vie is pretty shady too. When you try to buy their juice retail, oh no, you are pretty much advised not, sign up as a distributor, buy it wholesale. With Avon, I would prefer you as a retail customer. However, if you want to sign up, that's fine. Sorry for the really long post

angelia42   |2009-03-25 13:42:38 Thanks, Bonnie. It's good to get information from someone on the "inside," as it were, especially done in a respectful manner.

bn724   |2009-03-25 13:49:18 Oh, I forgot to mention, that I am consistently selling between $400 - $600 per campaign (a 2 week period). That's not what I earn, because it varies, based on the products sold. But that number is genuine retail sales to actual customers, not me. I am not getting rich by any stretch, but making a little extra cash, and that's why most of us get into this kind of thing anyway. Right?

Rachel   |2009-03-25 14:25:36 Quote: I do not agree that Avon pushes inventory frontloading. They will push stock-ups. But I tell all my recruits, "if you don't think you call sell it within 2 weeks, don't take the stock-up". Ummm... it sounds like they do push it. You might not be pushing it, but if the leaders lose their recruits when they don't buy enough, this is encouraging them to push ordering, and you said yourselve they're pushing something called "stock ups", which sounds like it has lots of potential to get people buying more than they need. Not every SD pushes inventory, but that doesn't change the fact that MK is set up in such a way that inventory loading is exactly what a lot of (probably most, these days) directors do to make their money, and Mary Kay completely tolerates it. It sounds like the same would be true of Avon.

Pax   |2009-03-25 14:39:32 Ummm, has anyone else noticed that the women's suit in the photograph is exactly the same as the 2009-2010 director suit? Exactly how old is that picture?

angelia42   |2009-03-25 15:08:08 Pax, that's hilarious! I hadn't noticed that before. Always "cutting edge!"

dupedbypinkfriend   |2009-03-26 10:24:04 Quote: You might not be pushing it, but if the leaders lose their recruits when they don't buy enough, this is encouraging them to push ordering, and you said yourselve they're pushing something called "stock ups", which sounds like it has lots of potential to get people buying more than they need. Good call, Rachel. Quote: I do not agree that Avon pushes inventory frontloading. They will push stock-ups. Tomato, tomahto, call it what you will. SSDD. And the fact that we are now getting bombarded with Avon recruiting commercials tells us what the company's priorities are these days. Reese Witherspoon:  Boo! Hiss! Do your homework!

caralyntheresa723   |2009-03-26 15:33:26 I just saw some catalogues in the teacher workroom at school and saw Courtney Cox on the cover now. She has a perfume they sell called Spotlight or somthinglike that.... enjoy your day

sherineill   |2009-03-26 21:31:32 There is a girl at work who decided to do Avon while she was on maternity leave (One year for people in Ontario) She was hoping to make extra money, hoping to cut back on her shifts when she did return to work. Well none of us at work were interested in buying it. She wasn't making any money and was always "owing money to Avon" I couldn't figure that one out until now. She told us that her "leader" was pushing her to buy more "stuff" even though she wasn't selling the "stuff" she already had. I told her, "Tell that woman to "stuff" it. Why would you stay at a place where you pay them to work?? It doesn't make a bit of sense. Get a JOB that pays you, with a paycheque every two weeks. You make tips, good ones and health benefits...like the one you have here. We have your job waiting for you to hurry up and get back to already!" She came back to work a few weeks later. (I sounded my hubby did with me while I was in MK) As far as I can see, Avon is just another MLM pyramid scheme. They'll end up like MK eventually.

lightershadeofpink   |2009-03-27 07:50:07 What a surprise to see this post this morning. I just received a link from a not-so-close friend of mine who is an Avon rep. She posted this link on her Facebook page that makes the same claim as MK - that cosmetic sales are up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =I5J3RnUZMZA Avon is a MLM just like MK, maybe with a few different rules but its a MLM just the same. It is my understanding that Avon allows reps to order product and have it mailed directly to the customer. If this is true it should help with the problem of having too much product on the shelf. MK is just testing this now. What's taking them so long.

Kinzie   |2009-03-27 08:33:41 *wistful sigh* It is sad that Avon has come to this. I remember when I was a little girl how the Avon lady used to come to our house with her case of samples and those little lipsticks. Sometimes she would even give one to my sister and me. Ahhhh...back in the day.

angelia42   |2009-03-27 10:09:02 I remember those little lipsticks at my grandma's house, Kinzie. A simpler time, indeed.

pinksedition   |2009-03-27 11:29:09 I remember those little lipsticks at my Nanny's house. I used to have so much fun trying them on with her. It's one of my favorite memories. Aw, now I'm going to get emo and teary eyed with all this discussion about grandmother's!

maskedavonrep   |2009-03-27 14:51:27 I just wanted to clarify a couple of things that may have changed at Avon. There are no longer monthly meetings. There are a maximum of 7 sales meetings per year because Avon cut financing. The DMs are required to push stock ups. Even though my DM claims not to push stock-ups, she has backended her 'not pushing' with a story of, "This is why I bought stock ups when I was a new rep...." which, to me, is a round-about way of getting to the same place. Also, returns are not easy and not free. Returns are very difficult. Avon lady after Avon lady can tell you that Avon does not want you to return a product, even if they shipped it to you in used or damaged condition. Avon does charge you for return shipping except when their error. If you return more than one item, Avon will often claim the other items were missing. In fact, it has gotten so bad that Avon ladies are now digitally recording themselves as the pack up the returns. There is currently a class action lawsuit against Avon regarding these "EZ Returns." (Perhaps already settled?) While presented as a positive point, the actual loss of a 'downline' is very painful to the woman who worked so hard to recruit her 'offspring' (as MK calls them?) You only have thirteen months to get xyz number of recruits. If you don't, Avon 'rolls them up' to the person above you (District Manager, I believe.) All that hard work (as a result of Leadership Brainwashing) flushed down the toilet, and your much anticipated commissions disappear. In my book, the above post -- while polite, thoughtful and mostly accurate in a literal sense -- it is still 'Leadership Speak,' the sort of thing I hear from Leadership reps on a regular basis.

maskedavonrep   |2009-03-27 19:11:40 I made a mistake. It's not thirteen months to develop your downline, it's 13 campaigns, so really only 6 months. Some hard numbers: to become Unit Leader, you have to have 5 active recruits (placing $50 minimum order each campaign). You have to have $250 in personal sales per campaign. In addition, your team sales have to be $1200 per campaign. Otherwise, you are in jeopardy of losing your downline. This doesn't include the per recruit cash bonuses. Or the "Golden Opportunity" bonuses which are earned at the same time (as I understand it.) This scheme as a chance for Leadership to earn more cash bonuses and Gold iPods. If you are in sales only, not Leadership, you have to order two Anew products (the high priced Avon line) and pay $29 to get the iPod. If you earn $10K in gross sales, you get a figurine or a plate or something and a dinner. You are also guaranteed 40% discount on product for a year. Whoo-hoo. Frankly, if you are selling $10k a year, you are already getting the 40% discount.

PUNKEDBYPINK   |2009-03-28 20:52:21 Same old S*** different MLM. Cheap prizes,work your butt off,few people benefit,people lying and being lied to...yada yda yada. Believe me, I'm not trying to trivialize anyone's experience with Avon or MK,but that is why these sites like Pink Truth need to exsist. Hummm....we can start a similar site for Avon! Let's call it Avon Super Sucks, or it's acronym A.S.S. ;D After all, P.T. started out as Mary Kay Sucks, right?

PUNKEDBYPINK   |2009-03-28 20:56:12 BTW,I've changed my name to something near and dear to me. Formerly known as PUNKEDBYPINK (all caps I know! It's like I'm yelling every time I post) Anyway,the name has been changed to protect the innocent!

maskedavonrep   |2009-03-30 08:49:30 One sure sign of a pyramid scheme is when recruiting pays out huge bonuses, while it doesn't to sales. I keep getting told the sales person's bonus is the incremental earnings levels. Well, it takes $1500 in campaign sales to get to a 50% discount, and Avon tells us the avg. order size is $25. That's 40 orders per campaing. Can you imagine calling, arranging payment plans, and deliverying 40 orders every 2 weeks? Very few reps can do this. If they can net helpers, it helps. But helpers routinely quit. Keep in mind that regular customers order on avg. only every fourth campaign. So to get those customers, you'd need a minimum customer base of 160 customers Yet Avon has 1 Avon rep for every 50 adult females in rural areas. So you'd need to be servicing 3-4 towns on a regular basis. Servicing incudes dropping off new brochures, showing new demos, ad nauseum. You see, in addition to getting new orders, you have to keep your regular customers in new brochures, even in campaigns in which they don't order. The more I think about it, the more impossible it gets. Yet leadership, ka-ching, gets hundreds of dollars and gifts based on signing me up, and based on signing up even more and more and more competition for their downline. You see why Leadership grows to hate Sales Only reps? We eat up the tiny customer base that remains. We give good service to outshine their downline. We keep on going even though Leadership tries to trip us up. (Not all Leadership reps are bad, of course, but it only takes 1 or 2 bad ones to make your Avon experience miserable.)

Jitterbug26  - Warning not all avon ladies are nice   |2009-04-30 16:43:41 Im informing you all that if you ever do or already are signed up for avon and log into the forums be prepared for the shock of your life. The women on the youravon forum are some of the most  petty,childish,and immature women you will ever meet. They get a thrill off of being mean to new reps,putting down others and ganging up on people that disagree with them. Theres a certain clique of women on there that want full control of the youravon boards.Probably because they have no control in their lives outside of the internet.They will do whatever they can to get you banned. What they do is they will say something to you to ruffle your feathers(sly name calling,making seperate threads about you,posting pictures yes pictures ect ect ect immature behavior) and when you respond they report your post. The moderators only see the post that is reported and not the whole thread so they will think you are the only one in violation not the other person. These women will stop at nothing to have their way.The women on these boards have run reps away and then followed them to other sites.There is another site a rep made because of all the drama on youravon and several of the ladies from youravon followed people over there to spy.They have tried to slander the other site claiming that you have to pay when you dont. They do their best to discredit everything they dislike. The only reason they are angry is because the ring leader from youravon forums joined there stirred up her usual mess and got herself banned. I myself was called a racial slur SEVERAL TIMES by TWO seperate reps on the youravon boards. These women (i call lemmings) are often being pushed up by two ring leaders i will only say whose names start with j&t. They orchestrate everything behind the scenes and send out their thugs to do their dirty work.  They are a group of sad miserable women who have nothing better to do with their time than harass others. They even go so far as to troll ebay for people selling avon on there so they can tell on them.They hate the idea of people selling on ebay.Which is stupid because avon the company itself sells on amazon.They dont ever say anything about that. Now they have started to go onto youtube looking for reps to rat out for "avon violations".Apparently its against the rules to say you sell avon while on camera. Its like good grief ladies get a life. Just know ladies they come on here and read as well and then go back on their forum to cackle and talk about what people said on here as if anyone who has a differing opinion about avon is unintelligent. What they do not know is they are the ones with such a narrow view that they come off as nothing more than a bunch of ignorant no nothing hillbillies.Im sure they will see this and throw a fit and try to report this to the admins here(that is after all what they do and all they know how to do) but i do not care i want the truth to be known and I will tell everyone i see about the behavior exhibited on the yourvaon forum.

dupedbypinkfriend   |2009-04-30 17:55:48 Well, well, well. Hi, ya know nothing hillbillies! Nice to have you visiting, I mean, lurking among us. Have fun and get a life. Welcome to PT, Jitterbug.

Jitterbug26  - Copy and pasting   |2009-04-30 18:47:40 Just like clockwork to prove that like i said they go back to their little kingdom and cackle I will post some comments i saw them make on there just cos i can do that muhahahahah disclaimer no names will be used just certain comments that popped out at me : "I just looked at it.. Yes I have seen other forums with people complaining about Avon or MK... You know once in awhile we see them here too... Kind of like those who ask why doesn't Avon send me a check.. I've been sitting here waiting for it. ha! Once in awhile we have a vialble complaint but most of us knew what we were getting into and that we would have to be self starters and have a little sales initiative to do well... But isn't there a forum for everybody now? ha!" "Looks like a good place for all the ladies who need excuses as to why they aren't able to make it in direct marketing to go and whine to each other. LOL! Waaah!! A von expects us to get 5 recruits in 6 months? Stockups? OMG! They encourage stockups? Bad, bad Avon!! Please..." &# 34;OH I KNOW!!! Maybe if she'd spent a little more time working her business than worrying about ripping pages off of brochures...and I guess someone forgot to tell her she could always just fold a couple of pages back instead of using an exacto to cut out the recruiting stuff. Besides, we're not required to do leadership and if someone were interested, it'd be a great way to get started or make $20 for the referral. **sigh** My favorite is all the misinformation being stated by MK reps, though, and one even calling Avon stuff tacky!" "The thing is that a lot of it's not their fault but they were scarooed so bad by MK that they think all MLMs are out to do the same thing and they're ready to take their anger & frustration out on every MLM company - especially one larger and more profitable than they one they left. The only way Avon could be that way is by scarooing their reps, too, right? Personally, I've done both and love Avon. The benefits of it, the products, the everything is so much better than MK and I think that really shows in that they have a whole other website set up soley to bash the company." "exactly. .they have enough time to bash Avon and other mlm's..yet they don't have the time to research the difference between an mlm and a pyramid scheme. it's really simple...pyramids get % off their downline's pocketbook..MLM's get their % from the actual company based on the dl's sales" "I sort of feel bad for them. Sort of. There's a reason why you didn't fall for it and it's called "common sense". Women have to learn that it's really ok to say NO and mean it." There were more but it was more of the same.

dupedbypinkfriend   |2009-04-30 19:38:44 Ha ha, Jitterbug, that was me they were quoting! Unless, of course, that possibly there are other women who think that the Avon trinkets are tacky?  Hmmm...food for thought.   These gals are very misguided, poor hillbillies: Quote: it's really simple...pyramids get % off their downline's pocketbook..MLM's get their % from the actual company based on the dl's sales" Here's some free info: Avon is a product-based pyramid scheme just like MK and all the other MLMs. It's simple! If you don't believe it, then tell me why Avon is bombarding us with commercials that emphasize recruiting, just like, oh horrors, Amway.   If these companies are pushing the products to real consumers rather than the representatives, don't you think they would want to protect their sales force a bit more than they do, and not undermine them by saturating the market with more reps?  So I'll be waiting for your report, Jitterbug!

Jitterbug26   |2009-04-30 19:49:53 I agree that avon is a mlm no doubt i knew that b4 signing up.Its all about picking the lesser of mlm.I liked that i dont have to sell so much every campaign.I sell avon ~gasp gasp gasp~ ..but i have enough sense to know that avon isnt gonna pay off my student loans i dont care how much skin so soft i sell. To me its a side gig nothing more nothing less. I make maybe 50-100 dollars a campaign. Avon is ok for supplementing your income but its hard as heck to make it a fulltime gig. Those that do like a lot of those women on the forum claim have husbands incomes that they can live off of. Its real hard to be a single parent making avon your fulltime career. What angers me the most about those women is one of them once told a single mother to quit her 9-5 and sell avon full time . I was in shock. Those women are just angry that someone has a different opinion than they do.

dupedbypinkfriend   |2009-04-30 20:05:32 There are many here who believe it is okay to try to make a buck or two if you're not deceiving women about the opportunity.

Jitterbug26   |2009-04-30 20:18:18 i tell ppl the truth about products,being a rep ect ect ect. This is part of what made me not liked by a lot of those women. They got angry cos i talked about how some products were cheaper at walmart. Im sorry but if it werent for my rep discount there are somethings i would not buy.Im all about the dollar store lol. I bought an e/s for the second time from avon and it was suppose to be a peach color. Yea no pigmentation at all.Ill stick to buying my e/s elsewhere but other things ive tried have been nice. I agree im all for people doing things like this on the side for money but dont lie to ppl and tell them that avon is going to provide you with a cruise(which is what they are promoting now)or you are going to make a butt load of money thats just lying to people. I just smdh.

andGreen  - WOW   |2009-05-03 16:57:50 I just came home from church to find laying in my driveway...and avon catalog with a coupon in it letting me know that it is only $10 to join and that I will get 50% on all of my sales.

devilsadvocate   |2009-05-03 21:35:31 it amazes me that some of you are current Avon reps and you are over here bashing your own company. If you really don't like Avon, then why are you selling it? do you really think you will be successful in sales or leadership with that kind of attitude? such a shame... as for quoting the Avon bb's....nice job. Just shows how lonely you are. How about getting out from in front of the computer once in a while

Jitterbug26   |2009-05-03 23:05:58 @devils advocate. Noted and reported dear.

Jitterbug26   |2009-05-04 01:13:12 Also devils advocate i have a question for ya my dear : ? u mad?

Robb   |2009-06-23 09:47:56 I spent 3 years in avon-3 long expensive years. I tried to "toss" brochures and it didnt work. In fact I was told not to toss on many peoples property. I bought samples, i signed up for the bundles and prefered previews. I had a few recruits but they got out quickly after the first 4 campaigns where you get 50% off core items (they were smart!)All told when I ended my avon stint I spent over $4000 in 3 years and made a grand toal of $1,289-um that equals a total loss in my book. MLM is such a joke. It dooen't work-period!

dejay who   |2009-10-12 02:10:22 Ok so here is the real deal devils advocate I signed up for AVON and after 1 year I had nothing to show for it and everyone I have ever meet that Quit AVON has told me the exact same thing they got nothing out of it. Unlike the unfortunate reps in the end I did turned a profit but by the time I figured out my exspences I spent 5,000 and only got 10,000 making only 5,000 in a year. MLM is not a job it's a hobby and people who work in MLM should be aware that they will never make money at it and that is why I like this site Yes some of the things people are saying are negative but you have to keep in mind they got screwed big time by MLM

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