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This is the tax return data for MaryBeth, a solid Premier Club sales director in Mary Kay. I’ve heard many figures thrown around, and most often seem to hear that car driving directors make between $40,000 and $50,000 per year on commissions alone. Not even close!

If you do the math, you’ll see that it is almost mathematically impossible for a Premier Club director to make that much, because it would require more than $16,000 wholesale per month (and almost the entire unit would have to be the director’s personal recruits). No one whose unit does that much month after month is still in a Premeir Club unit... they'd be a Cadillac unit.

This particular sales director works Mary Kay between 20 and 30 hours per week. She watches her expenses closely, and says that hers are low compared to other directors she’s talked with. You see below, that for one year, this sales director made $13,530.

Where did that “executive income” go??? At 20 hours per week, this sales director is making about $13.53 per hour, assuming she takes a couple of weeks off. (Although we know you never really have time off in Mary Kay.) If her hours are on the higher end of her estimate and she works 30 hours per weeks, she makes about $9.02 per hour.

I know, I know. Your sales director makes more. You make more. Women can make more. They might make more. They should make more. Blah blah blah. The reality is that the vast majority of Mary Kay sales directors are BELOW the Premier Club level, so they’re making even less.

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Lazy Gardens   |2009-05-25 02:08:47 I don't see any entries for: 1 - Cost of inventory (if it's sitting on a shelf, it's costing her money) 2 - Obsoleted products that have to be discounted or discarded.

ifeelfree   |2009-05-25 06:56:16 This comment is from C Personality (she couldn't get it to post): This is a wonderful view of a current director's ACTUAL earnings & expenses! It's interesting that this SD doesn't seem to be a very strong seller of product (less than $500/month, or just over $100/week) and she's discounting her product sales by 28%. And on top of that, an additional 15% of her product cost is spent on customer gifts. So of her 50% product "profit", 43% is eaten up in customer "freebies", and that's not even counting postage or delivery costs! No doubt, without her SD commissions, she wouldn't even be breaking even! Also interesting that the amount she spends on consultant gifts is nearly HALF of what she spends on her few customer's gifts!

Kinzie   |2009-05-25 07:25:06 Quote: I know, I know. Your sales director makes more. You make more. Women can make more. They might make more. They should make more. Blah blah blah. Yep, same ol' same ol'.

pinkpeace   |2009-05-25 07:41:16 Oh, this is SO TRUE. And this director is lucky she had only $350 in chargeback expenses - they can be much, much more. And no car copays for those "lean months." I make more than twice as much now as I made as a car-driving, "successful" sales director. I also have paid vacation, personal and sick leave, insurance, wellness perks, and a strict 40-hour work week (where I never have to think about the job when I'm not there). Great post!

vintagegold   |2009-05-25 08:28:40 But the sad truth is that you are "always" working.  Always thinking about who is going to bring you that next hot recruit who order a big inventory, always trying to figure out how you are going to put in for the unit's inventory when they don't order. It sounds like one of the most stressful jobs in the world. I guess that's why they teach that if the consultant knew what Directorship entailed, then they wouldn't want the position, so you must romance the position...Make them want the suit...the car...anything, but if they start asking too many questions once they are in DIQ, then cut them off! They are a big girl now and can do it on their own.

pinkpunch   |2009-05-25 09:14:03 pinkpeace wrote: Quote: Oh, this is SO TRUE. And this director is lucky she had only $350 in chargeback expenses - they can be much, much more. And no car copays for those "lean months." I make more than twice as much now as I made as a car-driving, "successful" sales director. I also have paid vacation, personal and sick leave, insurance, wellness perks, and a strict 40-hour work week (where I never have to think about the job when I'm not there). Great post! Well pinkpeace, according to all SD's, you must be horribly unhappy with your life and your job. And your lifemust be terribly difficult. Your life is difficult! I know your life is difficult. It's difficult I SAY! Did I mention that your life is difficult?! You know your life is difficult because I said it's difficult! How many more times do I need to say difficult in order to convince you that your life is difficult?! Cheers to all of you that escaped the MK moneyless maddness! Cheers to all of the SD's and anyone else that had to meet productions. Cheers to many stress free months! (Especially the end of the months)

The Scribbler   |2009-05-25 09:35:03 "Sell your position. Even Directorship isn't perfect. But if you are stressed, chances are, you created the stress. Never, ever share your frustrations or difficulties with your consultants.. REACH UP TO YOUR SENIOR OR NSD!!!

The Scribbler   |2009-05-25 09:37:14 Continuing that quote, because my coffee-fueled fingers are quick this morning... "...Noone will want your position if it seems too difficult, like too much work and not enough reward or fun! If people want your job and you are moving people up in RED, WATCH OUT! You will be on the GROW!" ~NSD Pam Shaw in her document, "Director Organization."

happywithmylife   |2009-05-25 09:52:49 She claims the $6K for the vehicle as "income" but it isn't money in her pocket. That's a prize that she has to claim the value of it on her taxes. Notice she only claimed $81.23 for prizes. What did she get - a digital alarm clock? Is that ALL she got for the year? Again, this isn't money in her pocket - but it speaks - if she produces, doesn't she get "prizes"? I am a little puzzled as to WHAT she spent $3K in office supplies? Seriously - what did she buy for that amount of money? I go through A LOT of ink and paper - but I don't even come close to that amount. Something doesn't add up here, at all....

raisinberry   |2009-05-25 09:54:20 In other words, Scrb...CON YOUR WAY TO THE TOP!! Gee...I wonder why this SD didn't sell more product? Hmmm...could it be that because she isn't in a real business, but is rather in a pyramid (unbeknowst to her)she is meeting with women who she closes with sharing "the opportunity"? So she holds off on the sale in favor of convincing her target to get it at HALF OFF!? Hmm?? Cause we all know you REALLY need to sell STAR in order to do PREMIER CLUB volume?? Her $110 facials aren't gonna do the trick now are they? And that my friends is the secret trick..the "con" that Pam and Gloria and Lisa and Shirley and Dacia And Kathy and Christine all the rest figured out. The "numbers" game is nothing more than use the product as bait and switch. And the more effective you are at the Switch, the more money you make. Ta Da! "Mary Kay...Enriching Upline Lives at your expense."

pinkpeace   |2009-05-25 09:54:36 Haha, Pinkpunch! Yes, my life is so difficult - *sob!* It's so hard having six weeks' paid vacation, plus holidays. I just can't cope with my paid health, live and disability insurance. My fully funded pension and 401k? So, so difficult. My six weeks' paid sick leave/personal leave is just plain stressful. My casual dress code is such a burden. The friendly, family-like atmosphere among my co-workers and me is not easy to bear. The fact that I can't take work home and never think about it when I'm not there is killing me inside. Yes, I'm off to mourn the loss of my Mary Kay business. Pinkpunch, won't you pray for me?

raisinberry   |2009-05-25 10:41:50 pink peace...we grieve your loss. you gave up the excitement of charging your own card for un-needed product, the thrill of attending a special event at your NSD's house..where you get to actually sleep on her basement floor for the mere cost of $8, the commeraderie of snoring women sleeping 4 deep in hotels, the begging for monthly orders, the endless meeting preparation, and paying for them too, the exercise in daily vanity, unable to drop a kiddo off at school without your face on, and all this for no money, no security, no insurance, no retirement, dealing with total strangers at classes where they watch porn and drink beer, or get their "free facial" and nothing more, while you scour the earth looking for recruits to con so you can win the make believe contest your national is having in order to attend an event at her house where you can pay to sleep on her floor! FREEDOM! FLEXIBILITY! FINANCIAL RUIN! You are such a SUCKER!

beefreeis4me   |2009-05-25 11:34:50 Oh yes! I remember the sleep overs, skits, the I stories, breaking a board in half (it suppose to symbolize that you can break thru barriers) that was the extent of the training besides the "magic formula" of "30 Faces in 30 Days!" The getting up at the crack of dawn hitting Target, Wal-Mart, malls handing out chocolate, flowers, samples or business cards or PMS bags. Saying my affirmation in my head all day long. asking God to put the women in my path. Thank goodness the Lord never put women in my path. I remember going to skin care classes, with roaches crawling, dogs trying to hump me, no air conditioning or heat, scared that I was gonna get killed going to my car to fill orders, no one buying anything but want everything free. I even had a drunk hostess one time who passed out in the kitchen. So glad to be done with Mary Kay! It's hard to pay your bills with trinkets and star prizes. The lady at the water company refused the gold lame comforter set I got! How dare she!? LOL

beefreeis4me   |2009-05-25 11:39:59 Oh by the way, it is Memorial Day! If you are at a family gathering, break out those Satin Hands Sets and pamper your family and friends cause they all love to be pampered. Just think of all the Satin Hands you can sell today!! ***snickering cause some poor consultant is really doing that because her director told her that another consultant sold 50 sets last Memorial day.***

icanbecomesane   |2009-05-25 11:51:16 Hi BeeFree! Sounds like you could post a few times on the Horror Stories thread!

Sens   |2009-05-25 12:23:21 I can't believe she only made that both my recruiter and director told me I could make over $10,000 a month *part time*

raisinberry   |2009-05-25 13:27:38 Sens...NATIONALS don't even make "10K a month...part time." Seems like we should be able to sue mary kay for false claims....detrimental reliance....but alas...that darn independent contracter protection. ..frickin' geniuses.

pinkpiddlin   |2009-05-25 13:58:51 happywithmylife YIKES! You hi-jacked my avatar! However, being the generous person I am, I will share.   Welcome to PT. My guess is the supplies were all of the things needed to make baskets, hand out roses, section 2, trays, mirrors, samples, cases, recruiting folders, decorating and products used at the training center, etc., etc., ad naseum! PP

MissGoGiveMK$   |2009-05-25 14:03:21 These numbers do look a little fishy. $148 for meals and entertainment? Divide that in a year and it comes to spending only $12 a month. That's only 1.5 visits to Starbucks for herself and her possible recruit.

windycitygal   |2009-05-25 14:21:22 I just love it when you lay it out like this! Everyone in MK should challenge themselves to look honestly at their earnings.

TRACY   |2009-05-25 15:25:41 Pinkpeace - Not only is your life difficult... Don't you think you deserve to be paid what you're worth???

nutmeg   |2009-05-25 16:36:51 When I told my sr director (who is a national) that I was stepping down, she went on and on yapping about how I'm crazy to give up this and I'll NEVER make this kind of money doing anything else... I told her that she should really stop saying that to me, and other people, because in reality, MK directors don't make much money at all, it's barely minimum wage. You could hear a pin drop. Then boy oh boy did she get pissed off and couldn't hang up with/on me quick enough... It's funny that they think we're stupid and can't add up the numbers and figure out that the money sucks!

pinkpeace   |2009-05-25 17:26:06 , Tracy! You know, that's one of the MK phrases that really gets to me - being "paid what you're worth." What does it mean? Everybody gets paid whatever a job is worth. Your personal opinion of your self-worth has nothing to do with what a given job is valued at in the marketplace. If you want to make more money, you figure out what it takes to make that happen. Women in the real world get additional training or education to qualify them for more responsibility and more pay. Or they take the same kind of job in a different company that values that position more highly.   What they personally think they are worth has nothing to do with reality in the job market. You can either do a job that pays at a certain level, or you can't. And God help you if you think that MK will "pay you what you're worth." Your self-esteem will take a hit when you realize that your worth is equivalent to minimum wage or less.

happywithmylife   |2009-05-25 19:07:20 PP - I am sorry I hijacked your avatar - but it's my dog's "nickname"....I will try to find another one, though. I am still trying to figure out how she only won $81 in prizes at her level.

pinkpiddlin   |2009-05-26 00:23:30 happywithmylife...It's OK ....I can share. I picked it because it's my grandaughter's nickname PP

thinkpinkagain?   |2009-05-26 02:31:54 Customer Gifts is product...consultant gifts are from Sam Moon et al. Hehehe...one NSD's site has pics of prizes for a unit competition, I swear she copied and pasted the pics of the purses and jewellry right from Sam Moon because their logo is present...transparent, but you can see it. So why do all this work and stuff to win a purse thats a Dooney and Burke knockoff...especially when you can order it directly from them for 30$. And over three grand for supplies? Even worse, the auto and traveling expense are almost equal, but then again, if you are hauling all over town and going to events, that's going to add up. Other than insurance, her lowest cost is food? What, she doesn't eat? She sure as hell doesn't treat anyone else unless its Dollar Meal at the Drive Thru. 13,000 a year. That's all you get and she still doesn't have health insurance. Does she have kids? Daycare? Messed, messed up! Well, going to head to my job in the morning, paid vacations, sick time, insurance, 401K...yeah. I don't sell anything and once I am out that door at the end of my time I don't have to think about it until I walk back in the next day. Now that...is freedom.

Rachel   |2009-05-26 08:54:56 First of all, I'd like to thank this director for honestly submitting her tax information. Quote: I am a little puzzled as to WHAT she spent $3K in office supplies? Seriously - what did she buy for that amount of money? I go through A LOT of ink and paper - but I don't even come close to that amount. The list didn't say "office supplies." It just said "supplies." And there was another item for "office expenses", which seemed a reasonable amount to cover things like sales slips, business cards, paper, ink, printer depreciation, copying..." I would think the "supplies" entry would be things like demo products, packaging, items to enhance displays.  So here we have: Code: Product Sales  5,319.93 Cost of Goods Sold  (3,703.00) Customer Gifts   (1,137.00) ... plus, most likely, some amount out of that "supplies" included in the cost of doing sales. And I'll bet she was telling her potential recruits she made 50% profit from her sales.

PinkButConfused   |2009-05-26 12:32:07 Still figuring things out here... Who pays for the consultant gifts, samples, prizes, etc? Also - what about meetings? Who pays for the products that the 'guests' use in the skincare classes in weekly meetings? Guess you gotta have a rich husband with good benefits to work at premier club director full time...

dupedbypinkfriend   |2009-05-26 12:59:39 Commission: $20,678.84 Product Sales: $5313.93 In order for a direct sales company to be considered a legitimate MLM rather than a pyramid scheme, the sales force should typically earn more than 50% of their income from product sales. So maybe this just isn't typical?

maroli  - my current income   |2009-05-27 00:55:47 I quit mk late jan 2009. My current job income this year will be 52,000 gross-i also get monthly bonuses of approx 200 p month-paid vacations, paid trips for "seminars",and i only work 6hrs per day for approx 4 days of work-i dont even have to dress up! i dont think of myself as a loser-oh yeah-i stopped using mk crap and my skin has never looked better-thanks pt-

Angelwoman   |2009-05-27 13:21:25 Knowing my next door neighbor who is a MK SD with a Grand Prix, she isn't spending $14,497.00 in expenses. Maybe more like $14.50. The expenses do seem very high. MaryBeth's (Premier Club Sales Director example) expenses may be over inflated, so that she pays less taxes. Sounds like another trick they would teach the MK SD in Director's meetings.

pinkpeace   |2009-05-27 14:14:33 I don't know - the expenses look reasonable to me. There are a LOT of expenses that a sales director absorbs that you wouldn't necessarily see. Lots of these have to do with training center rent that can run easily $6k or more a year. Expenses for equipping a training center can be very expensive, also. This director may have purchased a new computer, printer, cell phone, digital camera, etc., which can be written off on taxes. Seminars, workshops, etc. and all the related travel can be huge expenses, especially if you don't live near a major metropolitan area. I used to pay for the MK website, Yellow Pages advertising, ad space in sponsorship of Little League, etc., and various other advertising/promotional expenses, and that added up fast. All these expenses wouldn't necessarily be obvious to an outside observer. I'm not sure how this particular director has classified her expenses (for instance, would a business phone line fall under "office expense" or "miscellaneous", but overall I can see where $14k wouldn't be unheard of.

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