Seminar 2008. It was my third time through DIQ (I'd go through one more time before I hung up my heels), and I was on my way to the director's meeting. My husband and I had just gotten off the plane, and I ditched my poor hubby with all our luggage, and ran like the wind in three inch heels to get to the meeting. Nothing quite like that red polyester jacket to give you a sauna treatment in Dallas, is there?
Anyway, while I am walking into the hotel, I met up with a new DIQ in our area who had also just finished her car, first time through DIQ though, and she'd just signed 5 women the day before, four of them activated the same day. She had 21 active consultants at the end of her third month. My jaw hit the floor. I had 20-some on my team, but only 11 active.
What was this chick doing?! She explained to me that "All you have to do is sit them down, sign the agreement online, and then without letting them think about it too long, have them fill out the MK Chase Visa credit card application. You get on the spot approvals, and then you just place their order. It all done in a little over an hour!" (She finished DIQ the following month, and taught at fall retreat about her methods).
Not only had that thought never occurred to me, I wasn't sure how I felt about that. I'd long had reservations about telling women to buy inventory on a credit card, but since that was the MK way, I'd done it, albeit with a lot of hesitation and clarification during my inventory talks (my director believed once you submitted, you were on your own, so I did it all for my recruits and their recruits - debuts, inventory orders, daily phone calls, etc. Gee, it's so much fun to do a director's work and not get paid for it. Woohoo!) So I walked the rest of the way to the meeting on my own, pondering this DIQ's words.Inside, there was a panel with the top directors in our area. I notice some are hesitant to say who's areas they are in. I'm not - I am in NSD Dawn Dunn's area. As I stepped in the room, all the SDs I knew came over and hugged me, which is what I loved about this whole business - everyone knew me, and I loved being one person that always got asked for her scripts, as I cold called and booked better than anyone. :sun: Okay, enough of that. Anyway....
We got started and the question came up: "I'm having a hard time booking, and getting classes to hold. Have any of you had a problem getting solid classes, and if so, how did you fix it?" (As if this problem must be all her issue, and NO ONE else is having this problem except her...I wonder who convinced her that was the case?)
The question went to the panel. These directors were all half-million and up. Audrey McDowall was there, who had done million the year before, and just did $850K. There were the typical answers: you need to offer more, believe in your hostess credit, coach better, believe that what you have to offer is better than anything they will get elsewhere, etc. Audrey McDowall sat there, silent, clearly warring with whether or not to make her statement. Let me tell you, of all the women I met in MK, she was the only one I would swear (and I accept that I may be wrong, but dear God, I hope not) was for real. She is one of the nicest women I've ever met, and very sincere. She's also been through a heck of a ride with her health, so she's not someone to take lightly when she talks about perseverance.
Finally, Audrey held up a hand, and everyone grew silent - when you've done million, you get a modicum of respect. Her voice shook when she spoke, and she has a very deep voice for a little blonde woman, with a thick, Southern accent. She said, "I don't know what the numbers are, and I'm not sure why, but they are not always what we say they are. Women today are busier, have more going on in their lives, and are tired, ladies. I'm not sure what my numbers are, but I know that I have to call more than 10 to get them to book, and I have to book more than ten, to get 5 to hold." She continued on, stating that this may have a lot to do with why consultants get frustrated. She clearly did not want to alter the status quo, as she didn't feel like she had a replacement answer, but she was training her girls that they had to do more to get results.
Please remember - I loved Dawn Dunn. I talked to her regularly, and I was in the top three in her national area, and gang, we were sellers. I didn't have a ton of inventory. I talked to my national, called her, was called by her, and knew her kids. We were close, given the relationship most consultants have with their national. So I'm not saying this to be nasty or exaggerate. I wish I could describe the look on Dawn Dunn's face. Dawn's face closed down. Audrey was who put her on the map as a National, and everyone wanted to be in front of Audrey during the seminar classes. She's very funny, very real, and very sincere. Treading carefully, Dawn poo-pooed what Audrey said, in subtle, manipulative ways. "Things have changed for women over the years, and we do, in a service driven business, have to be sensitive to their needs. Depending on your geographic area, perhaps the numbers are different..." etc. etc. etc. I'm sure you can fill it in from there.
Can you imagine the whispers after that meeting? Audrey was practically apologizing at dinner that night. Here's the deal - what they believe is so fragile, so founded in these roots of 30 faces, 30 days, 3+3+3, book 10 to hold 5, etc. that anything that flies in the face of that has to be silenced. But it is coming out, and pretty soon, they are going to have to acknowledge, you gotta have some serious sales chops to make it, and even then, the cards are stacked against you.
This site is so powerful, because it stands against everything they are preaching. Don't ever discount what good you are doing here. This is not a bunch of negativity, a bunch of women who won't get over that they wouldn't work it, or whatever other drivel gets thrown at pinktruth. It's the truth, the same truth that is starting to come out even at high levels.
When I got home from seminar, I (like a good little automaton) asked my director about Audrey's statement, and she, of course, did damage control. But Audrey's words stuck with me. I did more calls, more numbers, worked through even more setbacks. Here are my numbers, which I am copy-pasting from In touch.
Monthly Wholesale Production
Personal
$606.00 Dec 08
$1,145.50 Nov 08
$1,340.25 Oct 08
$1,264.25 Sept 08
$1,408.25 Aug 08
$1,274.50 July 08
I have no problem proving my numbers, gang. You can see how hard I worked. The numbers LIE. All that crap they teach is a lie - it doesn't work. I did way more than that, and you can see where my belief in the spew began to waver. I didn't have an inflated inventory. I had $1700 worth of inventory at the end, a logical amount for someone who sold as much as I did, over four years. I ordered what I SOLD - yet still can't show a dime of profit for my taxes. I didn't order at all in January, and I now only order for my customers when they order.
Even the high producers in MK, who are working like dogs, like Audrey who almost killed herself to finish million. I'm not exaggerating - she has severe heart problems, and she said, it almost was the end of her. They know the shpeel is dying on its precious pedestal, yet they aren't willing to let it go, and the NSDs don't want to face it.
Don't give up - you are making difference...one ex-consultant at a time...
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11 Jun 2009 23:40 | chopportunity
Ci, great post. I agree with Cousin PP, this needed to be on the front page for all to see.
When truth is shared in MK, it is downplayed, trivialized, and covered up. If the opportunity was what it is tauted to be, there would be no need for that, in fact true evaluation would be embraced.
This past spring MK tried to give away starter kits but it came with strings attached, a $600 inventory order. Glad there are no quotas - HA! Even with that program numbers and inventory are down. Now it appears they will lower the requirements for DIQ's from 30 active consultants in a 4 month period to 24. I was told once I became a director that 30 could not sustain a unit, so now new directors will debut with an even great handicap.
Yes, I agree with you Ci, PT is making a difference. I believe if MK was thriving like the news bits and TV adds claim we would not be seeing qualifications lowered and giveaways for starter kits. But you will not hear this at any MK meeting or Scaminar workshop!
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12 Jun 2009 00:05 | dupedbypinkfriend
[quote]Even the high producers in MK, who are working like dogs, like Audrey who almost killed herself to finish million. I'm not exaggerating - she has severe heart problems, and she said, it almost was the end of her. They know the shpeel is dying on its precious pedestal, yet they aren't willing to let it go, and the NSDs don't want to face it.[/quote]
Following "the dream" can be detrimental to your health. It's puts a new spin on "killer bees".
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12 Jun 2009 00:07 | dupedbypinkfriend
Lying always hardens your heart, yet that is exactly what is required to go the distance in Mary Kay.
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12 Jun 2009 02:04 | raisinberry
so true duped...and the lies begin at the beginning. From your 1st day, you are shepherded up front to be introduced and your Director states your goals...and asks you to agree...You are pressured to sign a star consultant poster, to have a "goal" when you barely know what you are doing. if you say your "goal" is to learn product knowledge, you are immediately chastised!!!"Don't you want your red jacket??" Your wholesale is doubled and you are given credit for it as having been "sold", Your "hourly wage" is figured FOR YOU by a Director seeking to impress guests at meeting...
So with this dynamic introduction to speaking BS (not berrysparkle) into the universe, who is surprised that at the NSD level, truth is Poo-pooed.
Under the guise of being "positive" they distort facts, lie about results, con newbies and manipulate the masses.
Audrey no doubt, could still hear the spirit in her, convicting her.
No so for the majority of Nationals...who have seared their consciences in favor of cash.
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12 Jun 2009 02:30 | pinkpunch
A helpful hint to the lurkers and present consultants:
Do you really "want" to know the truth? Some of you really do not. You would just prefer to "trust" the person leading you. This is the mistake that all of us have made. So if you really want the truth listen up b/c I'm going to have you obtain it yourself.
First, in our future area (we were go-give), we had 5 SDs meeting together on the same night. It really "looked" good b/c it made it look like a lot of consultants were loyally coming to the meetings. We were lucky to have 3-4 consultants each come but when you x that by 5, well it pretty much filled the room, especially, when you throw in a few guests.
We felt that every consultant should stand no matter what they sold. So before we started Queen of Sales we would say, "If you sold a up $1-$49 please stand up. If you sold $50-99 please stand up, etc...until we got to $300 or more then they came to the front for the queen of Sales spiel. NOTE: we were never aloud to use $50 or less b/c the word "less" wasn't aloud!
Anyway, instead of tracking my own poor attendence of consultants and poor weekly Sales I decided to track the other SD's people and sales. (SD's are not allowed to share with each other how bad their units are doing, so you never really know and it makes you feel as if you are the only one.)
Here's what you need to track....
First, every week, track who's in your unit and who shows up the most. Then track each one of their weekly sales that they said that they have sold. This gives you a huge heads up on your SD's REAL production. Add that month up. Yes, there will be a few $200's to add from personal care users and such but you'll be surprised at how little is really being sold in your unit. Also keep in mind that personal care users do not order consistantly and it is, only, usually around $200.
When I started to track the other SD's production I knew that they were all in the same boat as myself. I realized that they were paying for their cars b/c there was simply no way they could afford it by their monthly consultants and I knew when they really didn't even come close to making production.
We would then get our monthly SD's newsletter and it would show this....
So and so' production was $4,556.00.(Note how she just made it by $56.00. That's b/c she had to add whatever money she was short)
And so and so's personal sales was $1,678.00. (Agian, it wasn't what she really sold, it was what she sold + what she had to add)
Now, if an SD did make production that month, in order to get her check, she had to have put in at least $600.00. So on that months newsletters her sales would show....$624.00. It would always be JUST enough to get past $600.00. (again, she added some of her own money)
When I started tracking the other SD's I could tell who was on there way out and/or racking up major debt.
So, a word of wisdom....track everyone else when you go to your meetings. You will find the truth right there while you are sitting in the middle of it.
Keep in mind what car they are driving so you know what $ amount of production needs to be met.
Oh, did I mention that 15 of us SDs bit the dust, within a 2 years period!
Up until the end....everyone was walking around as though they were soooo succesful, too! :s We weren't aloud to tell or share with anyone what was really going on with our units.
And the consultants just "believed"....
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12 Jun 2009 02:43 | chopportunity
Great analysis Punch. Once I found PT which was than MKsucks, I started doing just what you described and I still do it for the unitnet sites I prowl. If you read between the lines, you will find the truth.
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12 Jun 2009 03:26 | thinkingpinkstinks
How long can MK keep the monthly production quotas so high? As this economy keeps sinking and credit hard to come by, MK has to take notice of the Directors they are losing. $4,000 a month wholesale production is a lot of money for a unit unless you keep recruiting and frontloading like crazy. Maybe the MK credit card lets you charge, but other bank credit cards are limiting amounts. I wonder now, with the amount of recruits needed to become a Director (24 instead of 30),if they won't lower the wholesale production needed just to keep women in the suit. Maybe call them Junior Directors are something where they still get the suit but are just below the Directors that really make the money (LOL).
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12 Jun 2009 03:44 | PinkApostate
I can't wait to hear the SD's spin on what an amaaazzziiinnngggg company MK is for lowering the number of qualified recruits to 24. Just think of the drek that will spew forth from the mouths of the Philistines and Charlatans desperate to spin off a couple of offspring. My head reels at the thought.
I also wonder if SD's, such as my former one, will be allowed to 'lose' 6 IBC's and still keep their units? I bet she is hoping for that to be grandfathered in. Her SSD is probably hoping for the same!
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12 Jun 2009 04:27 | chopportunity
Still working on confirming the info that DIQ requirements are changing. I can't find anything that substantiates that. If you guys know of anything please chime in.
I think the lovely little ilovemk07 may have misinformed us. But then again, why am I not surprised. If this new requirement is truly to begin in July, we will know soon enough I reckon. Can't trust a Kbot for facts, just mindless platitudes and dribble.
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12 Jun 2009 04:34 | fadingpink
The following is the info I received:
July 1 to Dec 31... DIQ's will have a choice which plan they use to meet requirements... 30 Active with 16,000 from one to four months
or
new requirements of 24 Active with 18,000 from one to four months and a minimum of 10 who have qualified with at least 600 wholesale.
Effective January 1, 2010 the latter will be in force for all DIQ's.
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12 Jun 2009 05:00 | thinkingpinkstinks
That's a joke, $18,000 in 1 to 4 months and a minimum of 10 active with $600. I don't see anyone going through DIQ and coming out alive. Corpse is dreaming and so out-of-touch with reality these days. If anything, they should be lowering production requirements to keep women from abandoning ship. I guess Richard needs a new plane.
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12 Jun 2009 05:33 | raw joy
That's a joke, $18,000 in 1 to 4 months and a minimum of 10 active with $600. I don't see anyone going through DIQ and coming out alive. Corpse is dreaming and so out-of-touch with reality these days.
But . . . instead of these DIQ's having to put in $4,000 a month, now they have to come up with $4,500 a month.
So a DIQ gets three months into it, falls out. Her upline and Corp have now wrung an extra $1500 in production than if she had only had to make the $4,000. Multiply that by all the poor little DIQs on hamster wheels out there, it will add up.
This is smoke & mirrors at its worst. IBC/DIQ's will feel like 24 is easy to get - no more running around for that last 7 or 8 after they've exhausted friends/families/pets/ancesters. But they still won't make it because they can't keep up the production.
BUT her SD and Corp have profited.
I think so many are failing at DIQ that Corpse had to come up with a way to make up some of the money as well as prop up SDs/Units that need more production.
sick, sick, sick.
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12 Jun 2009 06:22 | raisinberry
Doing it with less people for more money is a way to minimize the fake consultants. They actually might be growing a conscience here. Did I miss something? Are pigs flying?
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12 Jun 2009 06:25 | raisinberry
PS. A Unit was barely breathing at 30. The FAB 50's push was to beef up the numbers early so there was time to defend against attrition. Twenty four would be a death sentence unless they were all committed sellers with some skills. Aw but then you would need customers.
Drat, there is always that hang up.
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12 Jun 2009 07:03 | raw joy
Twenty four would be a death sentence unless they were all committed sellers with some skills.
I still smell a big rat. First, the SD/Unit/Corpse gets more money per month for DIQs, and if they actually do make it, they can't sustain it with only 24 IBCs. What happens if you can't sustain? You either (1) put up the production yourself - and SDs/Units/Corpse benefits - or (2) you lose your brand new Unit, and all of your people go into your upline, who is also struggling - and SDs/Units/
Corpse benefits.
This is MK's sick but brilliant way to kill three birds with one stone - get more people to go into DIQ because they've made it "easier"; get more production from the DIQs before they fail; and prop up upline SDs when they new SD loses her unit.
Yeah, they're crazy. Crazy like a fox.
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12 Jun 2009 07:31 | Black Nova
Ciavyn, what a great post. Thank you for sharing.
Scribs!! Killer Bees! The visual imagery! You must do something!
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12 Jun 2009 07:57 | pinkpunch
OOps
I spelled allowed wrong?? :s 
I'm sure there's more misspelled, too....
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12 Jun 2009 08:25 | dupedbypinkfriend
[quote]I still smell a big rat. First, the SD/Unit/Corpse gets more money per month for DIQs, and if they actually do make it, they can't sustain it with only 24 IBCs. What happens if you can't sustain? You either (1) put up the production yourself - and SDs/Units/Corpse benefits - or (2) you lose your brand new Unit, and all of your people go into your upline, who is also struggling - and SDs/Units/
Corpse benefits. [/quote]
Oh, that makes me nauseous. It is disheartening to think about so many women who will go down in flames because of this.I am so so so glad they didn't pull this when I was in. I just have to wonder what I may have done to achieve the puke dream. I'm sorry. But this is just so sickening.
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12 Jun 2009 09:16 | SuzyQ
Great article. I cannot imagine how any unit will stay afloat for more than one month with 24. This is obviously what you all have described above BUT... did they think what this will do for niq? It takes so long to get it done now what with sd's bailing already... it will take them forever to have 20 viable units for 4 months in a row. And that will cut down on the numbers of nsd's, make the older areas bigger, and perhaps give an income boost while maintaining lower numbers of nsd debuts. Are they that smart?
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12 Jun 2009 09:27 | dupedbypinkfriend
I hate to say smart. Devious maybe, Corrupt. Heartless. Despicable. I can think of many terms to describe them. But probably smart, too. Ick.
Sounds like a perfect way to cut down on those retirement packages, no? First, the automatic free trips disappear. Now this. If they keep it up, NSD will not have the same appeal. Chintzy MKC. It may come back to bite them in the @$$.
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12 Jun 2009 10:09 | pinkpunch
If they did change DIQ to finish at 24 consultants I think it would be to benefit the long time veteran SD's.
If SD's are dropping like hotcakes, trying to hold up a 30 consultant unit, it's not rocket science that it will be even harder for an SD to hold onto a unit with even less.
Here's the plan....
Everytime an SD fails the SSD gets her people! Now we all know that they are all having a hard time so if a veteran SD raises 2 DIQ knowing darn well that she will not make it too far, in her so-called carrer, the veteran SD will just have added 48 new consultants to her unit and she didn't even really do the work. Thus, benefiting the veteran SD by beefing up her unit size, to keep her around longer in the company.
It's killing 2 birds with one stone...during DIQ the company gets a download of frontloading all while knowing that they will be, eventually, handing over all those consultants to the veteran SD and keeping her unit size up or getting her unit size back up. Lowering the number of consultants for directorship will only crash the new SD quicker but it will also beef up the veteran SD's unit quicker too!
This is also going to get more women to try and take on DIQ b/c they have just made DIQ "easier" to achieve. Unfortunately, these consultants are unaware that anyone would ever set them up, to fail, to save themselves.
Let's face it, MKC cannot afford to lose anymore SDs. This plan will work out better for the veteran SDs, only.
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12 Jun 2009 10:31 | dupedbypinkfriend
Well, well, well. I guess iloveMK was here to educate us after all.
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I've been lurking on this site for a while...and I can't believe the tactics that these Kaybots (love that term!) resort to. I've been in THREE different direct sales companies (I know, I know, I feel so dumb sometimes!)
None of them were Mary Kay...but the LIES that we were told are generally the same. about how EASY it is to sell and recruit and how to "Just get them to sign." what a GREAT opportunity this is, blah. blah. BLAH.
Then you claw your way to leader, only to lose it when your "Team" doesn't produce enough...
I am just waiting for MK and many of these other MLMs to finally fold...if there was ever a time for that, its soon, with the way the economy is going. sadly, many people are getting sucked into trying MLMs to try to make an extra buck... thankfully, I (finally!) know better.
I kind of smile when I see the amount returned by MK Pink Truth numbers going up...and that's just for Pink Truth members!!! Keep up the good fight, ladies!
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12 Jun 2009 10:51 | dupedbypinkfriend
Thank you for that great comment, CC. It sure is nice to hear some sanity for a change!
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12 Jun 2009 12:52 | CCA
Ciavyn,
I have been visiting this site for over a year, but reading your account today led me to finally register and post.
This could almost have been my story. I am also (or will be until June 30 when I will be terminated for non-ordering, according to the post card I got in the mail just today) in Dawn Dunn's area. While I was still in the pink bubble I received the highest compliment I could imagine - I was told by many in her area, including Dawn, that I reminded them of Audrey. Soon after, I decided to go for it; I went into DIQ...three times in less than a year. (I would have probably submitted the fourth and final time, but by then, I was in the middle of a very ugly divorce.) I remember how proud I felt to be included in that Director's meeting in Dallas during round 3 of DIQ, but at the same time feeling like a fraud because I hadn't already succeeded. I just could not for the life of me figure out why I couldn't make it; I have always been a high achiever who found a way to honestly get what I wanted. Like many of you here, I know now that is why I couldn't make it in MK. Fortunately no one I recruited is still in the fog, and more fortunately, I didn't lose any friends.
I know Audrey from a distance, and agree with you that she truly seems genuine. She is very well thought of in our community by those in and out of MK. So is my own director, but I have to think that they are exceptions. Over the five years I was in, the façade slowly fell and now I can see people and events as they really are, not as I wish them to be. But I don't count those years as a loss (even though I am still paying the thousands of dollars of credit card debt I incurred) because I learned a lot of useful lessons and I have to say I like who and where I am now.
Thanks to all of you who have shared their stories here and helped me realize I am not the only who lived - and survived - the (un)reality of Mary Kay.
Blessings to you all,
CCA
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12 Jun 2009 13:22 | ciavyn
CCA - were you in recently? I wonder if I know you.
Wow - I go away for a day, and voila - I'm on the front page! I am truly honored. And if I'm ever to be found out for the rogue IBC I truly am, it's now.
So now, for my acceptance speech!
I just want to say thank you, first and foremost, to Mary Kay. If it wasn't for the corpse, oops, I mean the corporation, so many women would not be in debt up to their eyeballs and keeping our fine attorneys in business with our bankruptcies and divorces. Is that not capitalism at work, or what? And many thanks to my NSD and my director. Without you, I would not have questioned my self-worth and my integrity. I wouldn't have spent many years losing money and sinking further into financial ruin and depression. Without your secret phone calls, hallway whispered rah-rah conversations, and "on stage" recognition and back pats to rouse competition and frustration among the troops, I wouldn't be who I am today - a woman who knows who she is, what she won't stand for, and who still has her integrity and self-worth. What would I do without you?
And last but not least, to Tracy, PinkTruth, and all the fabulous women (and men) on this site who brave the world, their fellow (and/or) ex consultant buddies and directors, just to help those of us who need their shoulders to cry on - and to whom we can share our rage and bitterness. YOU really are heroes - unsung, unpaid, and fabulously un-self-conscious.
Go burn your heels, wrap your nylons around your car's antennae, and drive around town in your very own hard-earned, paid for vehicle, and shout the song of victory...and for the song, I'll leave that to the poetress of the group...
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12 Jun 2009 13:52 | dupedbypinkfriend
PUNKED, oh, PU-U-U-NKED, your presence is requested!
Love that acceptance speech, Ci. I can't see - are you bowing or curtsying?
As they say in these parts, "Exelente, senorita!"
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12 Jun 2009 14:04 | pinked_out
Yeah for Ciavyn!!! The guilt in our area is not that of just letting yourself, your team, your director, your NSD, your sister consultants, your customers, your family, your cat & dog, your cleaning lady . . . but also of letting God down. Yes, after telling my SD (also my NSD) that I was no longer pursuing directorship, she proceeded to tell me that I was not following God's will for my life. That was 2 years and 1 month ago. And that was the nail in the MK coffin.
Keep at it girl . . . and when you're down my way give me a buzz and we'll have coffee!
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12 Jun 2009 14:06 | ciavyn
duped - I guess you ended up in the nosebleed section?
If the mooning smiley worked here, you can guess which way it would be pointing! Just to be cantankerous!
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12 Jun 2009 14:33 | dupedbypinkfriend
Yeah, good thing I found PT. (squinting) How else would I know to bring "opera glasses" if I were ever to attend Seminar?
But surely, you'd hear me clapping for ya, right?
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12 Jun 2009 17:09 | onelessSD
Great post Ciavyn! Thank you for shining the light ever so bright on all the manipulation and lies that the 'higher-ups' keep spreading. (kinda like manure!)
LOVED your acceptance speech! You are so eloquent and poised. So glad that your post made the front page, I read it yesterday in the discussions, and thought 'geez, this is amazing'. It's true though, there are some of the pioneers that truly do things the right way, but the younger 'instant gratification' crowd have absolutely corrupted everything. With the qualifications changing (if that's true), my heart breaks for those unsuspecting ibc's working so hard, and having it all taken away too fast. What is the phrase 'a house built on sand vs. the house built on the rock'? the house on sand will always collapse. This is the most stupid thing I've heard of!
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12 Jun 2009 17:42 | Chumley
Ciavyn first of all thank you so much for sharing your experience. I've been lurking on this site for months and this is the first time I've decided to post. It's comforting to know that my experience is not uncommon, but unfortunately quite typical.
I became an IBC in order to make some extra money for my wedding. Initially I just started with a $200 wholesale to activate, but a few months later I decided to order $2400 wholesale (on credit) because all the directors I spoke with told me that I needed at least $2400 wholesale if I was planning to work 10-12 hours per week and be at "profit-level." I trusted the advice I was given because these sales directors were "successful" and must know what they're talking about, right? And so began my journey on the hamster wheel that is Mary Kay. I warm chatted, did store events, handed out samples, chocolates, flowers, you name it I was trying it. I was extremely motivated because I wanted to have a nice wedding and wanted to pay off my credit card ASAP. I never actually "paid" myself from sales...any money that I made went towards paying off my credit card. It wasn't fun working like a dog and not being rewarded for it. My director told me to take a little bit for myself, but I couldn't justify it when I had inventory to pay off. Time went on and I plodded along, struggling trying to figure everythign out. The 60/40 split never worked and told my director that the 10% that I put aside for business expenses wasn't cutting it and she told me that I had to utilize team building and the car program to make more money (and essentially make any real profit...according to her). Eventually I decided to pursue directorship since that was where the "big money" was to be made. My director of course was excited about this and wanted to help me. I never made it to DIQ because I just became too burned out by everything...the warm stalking, the time away from my fiance, constantly stressing over something that give little ROI. It wasn't worth it. It wasn't until I came to PT did I find out about charge-backs and car co-pays. It made me a little mad that I had to find out about it here instead of directly from my director. Was she ever going to disclose that information to me or would I have found out after the fact? I'm not sure, but it definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. I went Ciavyn this statement struck a chord:
"I ordered what I SOLD - yet still can't show a dime of profit for my taxes."
I too only ordered what I actually sold or used myself and have absolutely nothing to show for it except for a lot of debt and grief. It makes me so mad that I put myself into debt the same year that I'm getting married and trying to pay for wedding expenses. I feel like a fool for buying into all of the BS, but I just wanted to work to proactively change my situation rather than just sit around, do nothing, and complain about it. I worked and worked and worked and for what? So that I could pad the pockets of those above me who obviously benefit from being less than transparent? Well at least I'm in the process of returning my inventory and cutting my losses.
Thank you to everyone who contributes on this site. I really appreciate all of you and am glad I'm in good company.
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12 Jun 2009 22:03 | PUNKEDBYPINK
Did someone call for a poem? Sorry girls, but I DO have a life! OK. Here goes!
I'm out! I'm out!
But so in debt
I'm gonna be fine
On that you can bet!
Believed all the lies
And all the bull
My wallet is empty
They said it'd be full
But's that's ok
I'm out of the pink
No longer a kaybot
My life doesn't stink
The journeys's been long
And not without strife
They patted my back
It was really a knife
I've got all the time
I need for myself
But I've got all this MK
Sh** on my shelf!
Gonna pack up my stuff
Get a stamp and lick it
Call corpse and tell them
Exactly where they can stick it!
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12 Jun 2009 22:12 | ciavyn
GO PUNKED!!
So much better that you did that than me! While I'm a mean writer (in school for it, gosh darn), I stink at poetry! My speech is complete, along with Punked's famous rhymes!
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12 Jun 2009 22:19 | ciavyn
Chumley - you are not alone. You didn't mention you were in my area, but your story is almost verbatim another girl in my area. I haven't talked to her since I got out, but she did the same thing. She got heavily involved in it to pay for her wedding, and I really don't know if she was ever able to.
I will say this - while regular order placing was encouraged in Dawn's area, so was an incredible level of selling. I can only say what I saw and what I know. We were mean sellers in my area, and we sold a ton of product. And I mean SOLD, not just bought and had sitting on my shelf. I think that is why we were/are such a strong unit. However, the frontloading was going on, as star orders first time around was given as almost the only option, unless you just want to be an order-taker (enter distasteful expression here). Mall-stalking, bank-teller attacking, business-woman bullying was common practice.
And they can call it an investment, a store, a blue petticoat - a credit card with $4100 on it is debt. And that is where I get off.
I am sure many relate to your story. Keep posting! And welcome.
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13 Jun 2009 01:54 | raisinberry
PUNKED YOU ARE A GENIUS...that poem wraps it up in the most succinct way possible!!
Chumley...sorry you are here. Really. While we love that our stories shed some light, at the same time it just stinks that another person got screwed under the "enriching women's lives" banner.
And the sickest part is, so are all the rest, while they pretend they are doing SO WELL!!
Everybody knows whatever profit you make goes right back in paying your accumulating debt.
All anyone has to ask is, I got in to this to make money...am I ahead? What's the net of the net? Most will see they have added to their debt and have no paycheck for their time. Net: LOSS.
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13 Jun 2009 02:08 | pinked_out
"However, the frontloading was going on, as star orders first time around was given as almost the only option, unless you just want to be an order-taker (enter distasteful expression here). Mall-stalking, bank-teller attacking, business-woman bullying was common practice."
And I was continuously scolded (like a child) for not stalking women. I literally could not do it. When I finally explained that I didn't do it because I didn't want it done to me (hmmm, now THAT sound more like the Golden Rule), I was poo-pooed and told that was selfish, had to "think outside the box" and "face my fear" while "putting on my big girl panties."
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13 Jun 2009 02:12 | pinked_out
"And the sickest part is, so are all the rest, while they pretend they are doing SO WELL!!"
EXACTLY!!! Pretend is the key - fake to you make it. Problem is you never make it.
I did Natl' Court of sales - okay, I bought the last $2K of it but that's nothing compared to most consultants. I did sell . . . I had a great customer base (who I miss - I formed relationships with them) and they were loyal. But I did not turn a profit in 5 years (I was in 11 but worked 5 -6 of those). Not a once. When I finally took off those d*mned glasses, I realized I in fact was losing money and write-offs were no more than thinly veiled scripts used by SD's and NSD's to pacify those high I's who loved recognition.
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13 Jun 2009 02:26 | Lazy Gardens
[quote]It wasn't until I came to PT did I find out about charge-backs and car co-pays. It made me a little mad that I had to find out about it here instead of directly from my director. Was she ever going to disclose that information to me or would I have found out after the fact?[/quote]
Given the rest of the stuff they didn't tell you about, what do you think?
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13 Jun 2009 03:05 | The Scribbler
"...any money that I made went towards paying off my credit card."
Classic. The "financial plans" on those New Consultant Inventory Options CDs are partially to blame, as they have more holes in them than a party-sized box of Dunkin Donuts.
For example, NSD Lackasoul may explain that you never use your own money to pay for inventory, you borrow someone else's - which is just flat-out stupid. If you're able to buy a 3600 block of inventory free and clear from the get-go, why the heck would you say, "Gee, I think I'll enslave myself to a credit card company for the next three years...it'll be fun!" NSD Rena Tarbet even had the nerve to call the desire to pay down a debt quickly "bad business." Oh, how the wisdom of the sages is better than fine gold, yea, more desirable than choice silver!
Secondly, you may be told to get an MK Visa and make a one-time charge on it for inventory. Why, then you'll only have to pay the minimum on the balance for the next three years and then you're free and clear, right? That'd be okay if your 3600 inventory purchase WAS a one-time purchase, but it won't be. You've got a quarterly $200 quota to meet or else your discount goes ka-poof, remember? And if you're a director, well, there's that whole production topping-off thing going on, in addition to any potential chargebacks and co-pays that you have to pull out of your rump. And we haven't even begun to cover the price tag of all those "You can't afford not to go!" events.
It's a trap, friends.
[IMG]http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z227/sportica/payupmk.jpg[/IMG]
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13 Jun 2009 03:29 | Chumley
Ciavyn I'm leaving the Brigit Briddle Area (Christine Peterson off-spring).
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13 Jun 2009 04:50 | didpinkawhileago
Chumley- welcome and wow, I was in the brigit briddle area 12 years ago. I too wanted to make some extra money and I was getting married. Since credit wasnt as available and the interenet was still a pretty new thing, it was harder for your SD to stalk you. But there was also more people at Brigit's meetings.
I am lucky I got out and returned product and didnt have to dig out of debt but wow, to watch
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13 Jun 2009 05:56 | raisinberry
Scribbler... to be honest and accurate we have to add that the follow up orders are the result of selling. (Usually) The next orders (after the initial "star" inventory) are those items that were purchased at the perfect start..debut...skin care class, that we DIDN'T have...and so we think, "Ah! this stuff sells!" And so we are duped into another few big purchases, getting to a full store, just about the time the warm market dries up...
From there its warm stalk heaven!! 100 faces in 100 days, 30 in 30, I need you for my portfolio!...yada yada UNTIL....DRUM ROLL PLEASE....
madam Director says...YOU KNOW, the BEST WAY TO MAKE MONEY AT THIS???????
Chumley's testimony is right on the money!! That's how it is done. At this point we are at stage 3 of the 5 part Con.
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13 Jun 2009 06:31 | Truth Not Tears
Clavyn, excellent front page material! I've been reading all of your posts since you've come to PT and appreciate your insight and willingness to share. You're a first-class addition to the PT community!
I want to also say WELCOME to all the new, first time posters on PT. It feels so good to finally put your feelings into writing, doesn't it?
As for the qualification for director changing from 30 to 24..... what a snow job. It's all about about numbers. DIQ will now be sold as "easier" to accomplish. Directors and nsds will be selling it like it's crazy to not go for it. Ladies, it's "going for it" that builds the numbers in the parent unit. The vast majority will never make it but if they believe they can and work toward that 24, it's adding bodies and production to the director's unit and to the nsd's area production. The DIQ's will give up but as a result of their efforts, there's more warm bodies with credit cards, new excitement and fresh suckers who will buy into the "dream" and carry on until they, too, figure it out. It's all such a scam!
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13 Jun 2009 07:58 | dupedbypinkfriend
[quote]Scribbler... to be honest and accurate we have to add that the follow up orders are the result of selling. (Usually) The next orders (after the initial "star" inventory) are those items that were purchased at the perfect start..debut...skin care class, that we DIDN'T have...and so we think, "Ah! this stuff sells!"[/quote]
Yep, that was my second order. My third order, however, was to replace all the products which went obsolete after only one month of being frontloaded.
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13 Jun 2009 09:54 | ciavyn
I honestly don't get the changes to DIQ. I said several times that if I had to sign up a fake consultant to finish it, what was the point? I of all people knew how important it was to have strong sellers in your unit. What a bunch of crap. And I love how the production requirements go up...just encouraging more debt and more frontloading of new people. Gee...I'm so sorry to miss additional pressure put on me to produce, to get back into DIQ, so I can then start receiving MORE pressure, from the DIQ division, to up my activity. After all, sleep is overrated, right?
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13 Jun 2009 13:00 | berrysparkle
Ciavyn, my new meet up friend.
Congratulations for making the front page. 
I remember we talked about this in Baltimore and so glad you posted. I took a couple of days off and viola your post is here.Welcome to all the new posters. Punchie, so glad you add your 2cnets worth. Great read.....
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13 Jun 2009 15:19 | mkdv24
Thank you Ciavyn! You sure have a story to tell, and unfortunately its the majority - not the exception!
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14 Jun 2009 01:00 | delta_lady@charter.net - Just curious
Did anyone just sell MK products? No recruiting, no powerselling. Just curious cuz I can't find a site to answer my questions about MK.
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14 Jun 2009 01:51 | PinkApostate
Truth Not Tears said
"As for the qualification for director changing from 30 to 24..... what a snow job. It's all about about numbers. DIQ will now be sold as "easier" to accomplish. Directors and nsds will be selling it like it's crazy to not go for it. Ladies, it's "going for it" that builds the numbers in the parent unit. The vast majority will never make it but if they believe they can and work toward that 24, it's adding bodies and production to the director's unit and to the nsd's area production. The DIQ's will give up but as a result of their efforts, there's more warm bodies with credit cards, new excitement and fresh suckers who will buy into the "dream" and carry on until they, too, figure it out. It's all such a scam!"
This is Corpse telling the entire MK World (blech) that the main focus of MK is recruiting and front loading. It is official...sales and selling are ideas 'gone with the wind'.
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14 Jun 2009 02:28 | delta_lady@charter.net - online question
Did anyone have "friends" that ordered online? Some of my chicky friends live cross country and order avon online from my mom because they don't want the local rep at their door. Was the mk online process easy?
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14 Jun 2009 02:42 | dupedbypinkfriend
Delta, most of us here really don't care for Mary Kay or any MLMs. You are, of course, welcome here, but do you know that there is a Mary Kay blog? This site does not promote Mary Kay, rather, we try to explain here why it's not really worth it, in any sense.
You can get any products you want on Craiglist, eBay, and liquidators such as [url]www.TouchofPinkCosmetics.com[/url]
Cheaper, and with no quotas or hassles.
You might want to read the Welcome page here to get an idea of what we're about here at PT and why. Good luck!
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14 Jun 2009 03:04 | delta_lady@charter.net - Many mk questions
1. Is there any type of minimum orders to remain active? Is there a difference to remain active & to remain active & eligible for profit?
2. If I put in a "wholesale" order, can it be $200 over a 3 month period or does that have to be a $200 wholesale somewhere in there?
3. Unfortunately this is gonna happen. If you have people under you ("in your team" do you still get a commission? I told my ex not to buy any Avon when I signed him up...and he did.
4. I work in wastewater management, stand in the sun all day with a bunch of nasty men (BFF!), we're all 40+ yrs old. Whats the best product to help with skin damage?
5. How much do the Books/catalogs cost & how many do you get for the price?
6. Does it cost money to have a website through MK? (Avon charged a monthly fee). Will the website treat the customer like I would?
I am looking for all the info I can so I can make an Informed decision on MK myself. But I need accurate answers & from reading a lot of things on the sight most know what they are talking about
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14 Jun 2009 04:34 | madamchair
Delta,
You have lots of questions. Look at the left side of the home page under the heading “Mary Kay Facts.” Click that link and scan the informational tabs to get answers to all of the questions you have asked in your post. I suggest reading “Mary Kay Information” first and then proceed to the other topics as time permits.
After reading, you will understand why these women with years of experience in Mary Kay in some capacity are providing a much needed service to help others avoid the devastion, debt and agony they have experienced.
Good luck and come back soon.
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14 Jun 2009 08:52 | What
Punked, the poem is fantastic!! Made my day!! TNT, can you believe the change in DIQ qualifications? This will be disasterous - oh well . . .
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15 Jun 2009 03:09 | raisinberry
pinkpunch, i just re-read your post on the group meeting, and shook my head. We all did that. At times, you had to meet with others to make the numbers look better. Anyone paying attention could see that results were pathetic.
But we all just go on "bee-lieving"...and pretending. It is CLASSIC cult brain washing.
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15 Jun 2009 03:43 | onelessSD
Raisin, you are so right. When I was meeting with 3-4 other SD's, the room looked great, however I maybe only had 1-3 showing up, then even that dwindled. Before I realized it, I was paying $150/month to help train someone else's consultants. I was then meeting with my Sr. and her other offsprings, and I was told to NOT leave that for a better location because we needed to build unity within our future area. (put myself into deeper debt to train someone else's consultants, didn't sit well)
What a waste of my time and energy, and what a fool I was to keep believing it would all change around as soon as I decided it would change.
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15 Jun 2009 06:39 | pinkpunch
Raisin Wrote:
[quote]pinkpunch, i just re-read your post on the group meeting, and shook my head. We all did that. At times, you had to meet with others to make the numbers look better. Anyone paying attention could see that results were pathetic.
But we all just go on "bee-lieving"...and pretending. It is CLASSIC cult brain washing. [/quote]
Yes, exactly. We (SDs) started to notice that and still continued on b/c of the brainwashing but the consultants may not be aware of any of that.
I really want the current consultants and/or lurkers to read that and start paying a lot more attention. Don't get so caught up in all of the fun....pay attention or pay the price...which is debt!
The numbers always look good until "you" really start to investigate yourself.
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16 Jun 2009 02:35 | Frosty
I used to be a Mary Kay consultant in the early 90s and ironically enough I made money on it. (I see lots of I didn't make any & in debt comments) Perhaps it's because I didn't start out with inventory & only bought what I was actually selling. I didn't make a lot because I didn't want to make a lot nor did I want to spend that much time on it. (I averaged clearing between 600- 800 take home that didn't go back into product a month.)
The person who recruited me was helpful, not just trying to boost her unit. (I could tell you all sorts of stories but she's just one person and it seems perhaps an anomaly not the status quo.) Reading the stories of Mary Kay's units today makes me cringe. I think Audrey in the first post was right about the changes in the market considering what I've seen in other news / trends. It's sad to hear how she was hushed up.
Yesterday my friend made her first inventory order while I sat with her. When she told me that her director had tried to talk her into a higher inventory order, my reply was "no, you do not need the much when you are just starting out & do not let that woman bully you."
It's sad to hear how the company is.
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Thanks for putting this on the front page Tracy....Ciavyn, you go girl!
This was an excellent post that really needs to be read by those who see this "opportunity" through rose-colored glasses.
PP