Real Numbers on DIQ from a Former Mary Kay Director

I experienced the same thing as you. Thank you so much for sharing this.

Pinkslipping,
Thanks so much for sharing this.
You are helping so many women by lifting the curtain of what is really behind all the pink rahrah.
Add to this that if you don't make quota for two months in a row MKC is pulling the rug out from under even long time Directors, then what is all the "stretching" for?
Getting used up and thrown away?
Pinkslipping, we're here for you. We appreciate your sharing this.

Slippy,

This is not meant as a personal response at your story, but a general observation to all. WHY WOULD ANYONE WITH 2 DEGREES AND MORE CERTIFICATIONS LEAVE ALL OF THAT ACCOMPLISHMENT TO PUSH MAKEUP ON PEOPLE?

Are women so insecure that a predatory financial empire can be maintained convincing accomplished professionals that they should abandon all that to become roaming saleswomen?

Sorry for the rant. I know I am the one who says that no one can another from themselves. Never mind.

Hav - I certainly can't speak for Slippy, but for a lot of degreed and professional women, it's the spiel that they can STILL be professional women (own their own business, wear a suit, carry the briefcase, make the income) while being more in control of their own time, not having to answer to a boss, no office politics, not having to stay late at a moment's notice, etc.

[quote]"Your debuting unit is never the unit you have a year later".[/quote]
Oh no! What is that horrible sound?

No, it's not the trickle of a few consultants leaking out of the bottom of the tub. The drain is wide open. Once women figure out this is a scam, it is a mass exodus.

Havie, what are earth have you been doing with yourself? So glad to hear from you.

pinkslipping, this is probably 80% of the DIQ stories out there. Directors boast about how many they needed on "the last day". I have heard everything from 8 to 15. Now come on. You worked for 4 months and in the last 24 hours, 12 people magically appeared??? And CORPSE doesn't know it?
EVERYBODY knows it and does it and its the "wink-wink" of DIQ

Pinkslipping: this is gut-wrenching to read I am so grateful to God and to all you excellent people for the illuminations of the bitter truths you have all experienced.
Thank you!

I used to say "Why, God" when I failed to achieve Directorship. Now I say "Thank You God".

"Why with anyone with 2 degrees and more certifications leave all of that accomplishment to push makeup on people?"

There are two dominating former professions in the typical MK I-Story: teachers and nurses. Both professions require a degree of smarts and proficiency - two qualities that the Mary Kay recruiters are taught not to care about. They're not looking for sales people, remember?

The only things a recruiter is taught to care about is whether or not a potential recruit is an "approachable, sharp, professional woman" and how to find/exploit that recruit's hot button. Learn what that recruit's dreams are so you can sell them back to her in the form of the Mary Kay opportunity.

That is why how intelligent a woman is or how much schooling she's received are not factors in the "I'm too smart to fall for MK!" statement. It's got nothing to do with smarts and everything to do with emotion.

I bet the number of Vulcan consultants in Mary Kay is insanely small.

[IMG]http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z227/sportica/mknologic.jpg[/IMG]

Scrib - too funny! Pinkslipping, I totally know what you experienced, I experienced similar thing too. I'm educated, with a degree, and it took my recruiter to a full year to convince me. I was the pprofessional woman that wanted to start a family and stay home or work from home. That's the angle that they used on me. I could have it 'all'. What they neglected to tell me, and what I was too pink-fogged to realize was that this business takes way more time away from your family than a regular 9-5 because it consumes your every waking minute. You are always 'on'.

So glad and thank God that I've seen the light and have changed my ways.

Great post!

Remember, just because you have a degree doesn't mean it's a business degree. I have an MA in Communication (performing arts). MK was billed to me as a great way to make extra money. I wasn't a business major...sounded good to me. Glad I got out early.

God bless our supporting and forgiving husbands' hearts.

Pinkslipping I fell for every single MK line. The one my director kept saying to me was, 'Short term sacrifice for long term gain.' Problem is the short term never ends and the gain never materializes.

Thanks for sharing your story with us. I have been out of MK almost 2 years and until recently did not know exactly what it cost my family financially. I finally faced it a few months ago and was so grieved and angry. But it is behind us now. Time to move toward healing and restoration.

Your post is sad, but oh, so true. So glad you were able to look at the truth and that you had the courage to get out.

In my area we used to call our mercy recruits 'phantoms'.

Black Nova, you're right - there are many different types of degrees out there. However, mine is in accounting, and I should have insisted on looking over my SD's financials and tax returns. I just wanted to believe all that I was hearing. :s

Same lines. Same EXACT lines I was given. Same thing I told my husband. Same thing I told myself. Same thing I believed.

Thank you for sharing this - I have no doubts now about my decision to get out, but this did just nail the coffin a little tighter.

Hate is too gentle a word for how I feel about this company.

[color=purple][/color]Hi, I am AussieGirl. I come from the Land Down Under. I joined MK in Feb 09. I became unhappy with my decision from about the end of the 2nd week. For the past week I have been searching the internet for sites that contain people's disapointing experiences with MK. I was sure there would be some out there as I was feeling disapointed too. I found this web site via a Google search on Mary Kay, but because I was mainly searching in Australia, I actually found this site from a link from another site that I found on about the 10th page of the Google search!! But I did find it and I am very glad that I did. My time zone is very different to yours. You are all probably in bed right now. It's actually 10.10pm here and I am about to go to bed now. I hope to share my story very soon. I have been very encouraged by reading many of your stories and I have only been a small way down the menu. I am still reading through the "Life in Mary Kay" articles and comments. So I'll probably come back tomorrow and write a message.

Welcome, AussieGirl! Look forward to hearing more of your story.

Welcome and I'm glad you found us!

Now I can't get that song outta my head! I come from the Land Down Under.

La la la...Vegemite sandwich....la la la.

Welcome Aussiegirl! Oh how I wish my computer would talk to me in your accent! Love it!

Thanks Dupie... now I have that song running through my head! Too funny!

Back to the post: Ciavyn, I agree, we are all fed a bunch of lies, same ones repeated over and over and over. I too spewed them out to my hubby and unit. I can't believe I've fallen for them. It's sickening, and I hope that MKC is reading this, because what you've done in the name of 'enriching women's lives' is disgusting. If you want to stop the corruption, start with your precious NSD's, (and your corp officers), they are the one's that are encouraging this kind of behavior and looking the other way when things are unethical. Truly sick.

[quote]Welcome Aussiegirl! Oh how I wish my computer would talk to me in your accent! Love it! [/quote]

Me too! Their accents are great!

Hi AussieGirl!
Can't wait to hear more about you! Wow, we are reaching even more places, the Land Down Under!!!! This is awesome!!
(I'm doing the pepper dance right now and singing the song!! Thanks dupe, it will be stuck in my head all day, now!)

I have a College degree and after I had my daughter in 1991; I thought about selling Avon (same headache as Mary Kay). i

Continued: I lived in a 75 unit condo building. After meeting some of the women and men in the Condo building, I felt their was no way I was going to sell anything to them. I think one has the inner voice that you have to make money after having a baby; because you don't want to depend on your husband or partner to provide all the funds. My daughter was so demanding that I could barely take a shower. I had two more baby boys soon after. Selling any kind of product is not the answer. This post by Pinkslipping fits appropriately to MK and any home selling business to a tee. I am so happy, because I put my house up for sale yesterday and will hopefully not be living next to a MK SD anymore. I am ready to relocate where the weather is better in the winter.

Welcome Aussie Girl,
Look forward to hearing more from you.

Hello Angelwoman,

Let us know when you are no longer living next to and we will have a party!

Aussie Girl! Good day mate! Can't wait to see all that you share. Welcome to PT, so glad you found us.

This is in response to havurah's question/comment.
I remember going to a number of events put on by 7-8 Directors (2 are still in the game) and all of these women were smart/intelligent, caring women. They may not have had degrees (I really don't know) but they were all definitely smart enough and determined. But, I'm actually commenting on the fact that alot of women are recruited with the idea that if so and so (with degree) finds this opportunity so worthy then there must be something to this thing. I remember being at events when someone was newly recruited and being introduced (aka practic I-story time) and the said director really capitalizing on the newbies current occupation, especially if it held a degree of any kind. If no degree then it was like "Well, duh, this is better than Wal-mart, at least she's smart enough to know that and that her deserve level has increased, let's give her a hand". Then you would hear throughout the audience "ooohhh's and aaaahhh's" and you knew those in the audience were thinking (you know that most, not all) that if she joins what does that say about me. Smarty up there found this worthy, maybe I should too. Plus, factor in the idea of directors sharing their (lies) love checks or bragging about GMB then the guest (with degree) is thinking "I just wasted 2+ years of my life to make the same as or less then this woman who looks like she's having all kinds of fun to boot". AND, if director has planned/schemed well enough she knows emotion is running high right about now and tonight is the night to capitalize. Also, she's hoping those with degrees that sign will have money/credit. Then the cycle begins. So and so with degree signs, brag time/pinning newbie, women at event witnesses smarty and (hopefully feels dumb that she wasted 2+years) then she signs/uses credit card, etc.
I actually already typed all of this and lost it somehow so I may have left out a point or two. If anyone smarter or more eloquent than I would like to expand on my thought, please do so. If this is something you encountered or practiced (even just somewhere deep down as you were giving your spiel) let me know. I noticed this type of psychological/emotional manipulation lots of times but I have never put it in to words. Yuck. Sad. They have to get you to sign somehow and even if it's just because someone else did that's good enough for them. Please excuse my errors and bad grammar.

Imfree, you described it perfectly!! It's so true. I've especially experienced this at large Marketing events held at hotels... You see the marches of each career rung on the MK Ladder and listen to numerous "I" stories, many of them perfectly edited to orchestrate your emotions from excitement to tears. The psychological impact of watching the 'smarties' or professionals joining MK or sharing their "I" story is amazing. I've felt the same: "Well, if she has that incredibly ambitious background yet still finds the MK opportunity worth going for, then what's holding me back?" "Or if that professional woman who works 60-70 hours in her regular J-O-B still finds time to complete DIQ, well obviously, I can do it too!" At Seminar I met this nurse who was showing me her 2nd bumblebee pin and I was amazed that she still worked FT and could still fit in qualifying for the Queen's Court. She told me "It's easy!! You just have to share this gift of an opportunity..." Now that I'm out of the pink fog, I now know that probably her FT job was subsidizing her qualified orders.

oh, they're subsidising those order alright, I know MANY who've done that, just to finish getting them qualified. Then for them to prance all over the stage getting their award. If they would have just held onto their $, they could have gone out and just bought a dumb bumblebee themselves and have cash left over. Same thing goes for the court of sales. I do know of women who earn it honestly (I was one of them), but waaaaayyyyyyy too many miraculously (sp?) pull it off at the very end, sad to say, I know those women too. It's sick behavior to crave that kind of attention.

Hi Imfree!

Tha'ts EXACTLY how it was in our unit.
Thank you for saying it so well.

Don'tcha just love it when you see the wrong punctuation after you hit 'Send'.

How do you spell don'tcha?

Imfree -

Just wanted to say "been there done that!" The example you shared is spot on to the events I went to as a new IBC, then Red, and participated in as a SD. I was told the recruiting odds were 80% at these events. Even higher when a national is there. Thanks for sharing the scenario so well.

PS

Phew!! I'm glad at least some of you were understanding what I was trying to say. And, this is where it all happens. I share something about what I experienced, some one responds with "Hey that happened to me or that's what we did in my unit, that's weird". And, that's when we all figure out we've been scammed by the same con man. It's only when we share that the cycle can be broken and the con man can exposed for what he/she really is. It also blows holes through the idea that that was just YOUR director or YOUR unit, "we do things different in my neck of the woods", cause I'll guarantee that makeuplover, icanbecomesane and pinkslipping and myself don't even live in the same state, let alone could be part of the same unit. So, yes, lurkers, if your SD isn't personally doing what I've described your SSD or NSD is in some way. If not, then how would this type of behavior be noticed by 4 people who have commented on it so far. If it's not being *taught* it's being passed down in one way or another. Ladies: Thanks for responding to my revelation. It's kinda sad to know that these practices are all over the place, but it's also nice to know that your not crazy and that what you've witnessed IS totally bizarre. IT WASN'T JUST ME, whooopppeee!!!

[quote] It's only when we share that the cycle can be broken and the con man can exposed for what he/she really is. It also blows holes through the idea that that was just YOUR director or YOUR unit, "we do things different in my neck of the woods", cause I'll guarantee that makeuplover, icanbecomesane and pinkslipping and myself don't even live in the same state, let alone could be part of the same unit. So, yes, lurkers, if your SD isn't personally doing what I've described your SSD or NSD is in some way. If not, then how would this type of behavior be noticed by 4 people who have commented on it so far. If it's not being *taught* it's being passed down in one way or another. [/quote]

imfree
This is sooo true!!! I have also seen (very few) of our very own PTers still "think" (in the beginning) that their SSD or NSD was not one of these MKers that we speak of. The truth is that until you "really know", NOT THINK YOU KNOW, what your SSD or NSD is really like (home life etc...) you really do not know that women at all. You are banking and believing on what you "See" and what she has said. The only reason that I found out what I did about my exSSD is because I had an inside connection to one of her very close family members. And what I found out, not only, took my breath away but I was almost in disbelief because of how she projected herself to be and all of the lies and deception of what she said to all of us. They are trained to lie, deceive and fake it til you make it....which all boils down to "not telling the truth", right!
I have been out for over a year now but I still recently found out something about my exSSD that just adds to my post.
Please go to the main screen and click on "Simple Math For a Mary Kay Sales Director" and read my last post.

Even now, with all that I know about her...I'm still finding out things that I just believed to be true and finding out that it was just another fake. This time, though, I'm not as surprised, but I STILL didn't realize the lengths that she went to get us to believe in her fabulous wardrobe and lifestyle. We all compared that to their success. Hate to admit it, but we did.

Please read my other post.

So right, Punchie. When you're in MK, you see only what they want you to see.

Is it true that a director earns additional bonus money when a new unit member begins with a minimum of $600.00 wholesale?

Yes Mypuddin -

If the new consultant is a personal recruit of the director and puts in at least a $600 wholesale order on her initial order in the month she signs or the following month (meaning qualified, but not necessarily 'seminar qualified'-that's a whole other story), the director will get $100. If the director gets 5 new consultants to place a 600 initial order in the same month (being qualified), she'll get an additional $300 bonus.

So....if the director is the recruiter and has 5 personal new recruits in a month who place an initial $600 order she'd get $800 bonus for that month (500 for the personal recruits and 300 for having 5 new consultants be qualified).

Clear as mud? Fellow ex-SDs, if I'm missing something or didn't answer it clearly please clarify for me. Thx

Oh and I meant to say if the director gets 5 qualified new unit members in a month (they don't have to be personal recruits) then she'll get the $300 bonus.

Pinkpunch, I don't know if you were asking me or just asking us in general to read your last post, but in case it was for me, I've read everything! I began reading/searching over 2 years ago because I knew/hoped that there were other people out there that wondered the same things I did about MK. And, sure enough, there was so much to read it took days. Every thing confirming what I already suspected.
I have been in and around MK for 20 years and,imho, nothing has changed. The directors then were parroting the same as those before them. Of course, some things evolve/change with the times, but the overall concept is the same. You must deceive, stretch the truth, lie by omission, sign up the ghost consultants to finish diq, or add your own money to qualify for something. All the while trying to keep a staight face to your family and friends.
I've always known that the one trying to recruit was not really in the position to be enriching the potential's life when in reality *they* needed *you*. Nothing happens for the recruiter UNTIL you recruit, and they play it off like if you don't sign it's your loss. When in reality without you their supposed dreams will never come to fruition. And I watched that happen plenty of times. Sitting there knowing how much that cons. needed that person to recruit and come in with a big order. How sad. And it was painful to watch grown women so desperate (when in actuality they didn't have to even remain in MK themselves, but did), practically begging, pulling out all the *overcoming objections* scripts. Unnecessary. That's what I think. But until now (with the internet) women were not able to make a more informed decision about the realities of this biz. Plus, until now most women thought they were the only one's to fail, thinking it was only them that didn't *get it* or doing the unthinkable to obtain a goal/unit/car, etc. Now we know better. thanks for the opportunity to share.

[quote]Pinkpunch, I don't know if you were asking me or just asking us in general to read your last post, [/quote]

imfree
Hi there! Sorry about that! I was just adding my 2 cents to your good post, for everyone to read (including you, too ) It's funny b/c your post sparked my post and then tied into what I had just posted on the other one!! After I posted over there, I was like, "Oh brother, that fits over here too!" So that's why I asked everyone to read that one, too! Sorry if you misunderstood me.

But honestly, agreeing with your post as well, these lurkers need to know that it does happen everywhere and I doubt very much that "their" SD is an exception to the rules in MK. We all have wanted to believe that. Like you have pretty much said, "What are the odds, of all of us from every end of the country and even other countries, having the exact same experiences." You just cannot call it all coinicidences. They are all lying, cheating and deceiving. And a year later, I'm still finding out lies that I didn't even know about!

Pinkpunch, thanks for adding to my post! I did want any one who experienced that type of thing to be sure to add to it. It is funny how almost each topic ties in to another and can just about be applied any where on the site! After 20 years I'm still hearing of things that make my jaw drop, mostly debt and lots and lots of unnecessary/unsold product. I know some ex-cons. who know other cons. more intimately and are just now divulging their experiences. I could have guessed by now how things turned out but knowing for sure is another thing. I do know, personally, a SD that is thousands in debt and I guarantee most people would never believe it. It so sad because this woman and her family are good, caring people. But all I can do at the moment is pray for the truth to be revealed when the time is right.
Everyone: Have a blessed, MK free weekend!

Hi everyone. Thank you for your welcome.

I have been reading more on this page and can see it all being true.

I only went to 2 unit meetings and was late for both so I don't know if any entry fee was charged. Also, the majority of MK Unit meetings are held in poples homes in my area of Australia. One Director has her double garage dedicated to MK so her car (Pink Volks Wagon) and her husband's have to sit in the driveway. She has sashes all over the place. When I first saw them all lined up they reminded me of the sashes from horse race winnings!!!

When I first signed I was very naive and did not do any research - more fool me. I joined because I was an MK customer and thought I could get the products at a reduced price if I was a consultant. So when I told my SD that I wanted to join and why, she came right over and gave me the speel and signed me up. She only mentioned once, and towards the very beginning of the conversation, thas as an IBC you can earm UP TO 50% discount on your purchases.

It was only after I received my kit a few days later and started reading all the paperwork that I realised that I had to place a minimum order of AU$250 before I got a discount and then it was only 20%. The more you ordered, the more the discount until you reach the 50% for a $500 order which means that everything up to $500 is full price and then everything after that is 50% I think. It is all very confusing.

Anyway I knew right then that there was no way I was going to be able to place orders for personal use for those amounts of money and I had to pay freight as well!!

Anyway my SD held my grand opening class and I just sat back and watched. The ladies I invited were 3 friends who I knew did not have any real extra money to spend (and I did not want them to anyway), however they placed an order of $500 between them. I was astounded (and I even felt guilty) that 3 of my friends with no spare many came up with $500 between them.

So my SD placed my first order that came to $1000 which meant my customers paid for their products and I got $500 worth of free product to re-sell or use as demonstrations.

In the end I have given 4 skin care classes. At each class I took orders and filled them. I have not spent any of my own money and have only spent about $70 on travel, "free" training and telephone calls.

But I did not get into MK to do classes and deliveries and meetings and training and all the rest that goes with it. I was misled badly when I had made it perfectly clear that I did not want to do any of this things I ended up doing.

I have now started to get the post cards from my SD saying she is there for me and I just have to call her if I need any help. I will not be calling her.

I have started to buy stuff for myself on ebay which is much cheaper than buying direct from MK and also much cheaper than skin care and most good cosmetics I can buy in K-mart.

Because I did not buy any inventory I am using up the products that came in my demo kit and using up the $500 worth of product that I got from my first order.

I will only buy MK from ebay now and I am telling all the people I did skin care classes for what a sham the whole thing is. They agree with me and still support me and are still my friends.

When I first joined and held the skin care classes, each time one or more of the ladies would say "Oh so and so used to sell MK" and I immediately thought to my self, "Well if MK is so fantastic, why aren't they still selling it now". The alarm bells sort of started to go off then right at the start, but I just kept on going. I got sick of it very quickly. I joined in Feb 09 and it's now Jun 09. I am definately not continuing with it as a business.

Thanks for listening.

Aussie Girl,

You did not buy inventory. Hooray!
You were able to keep your friends. Hooray!

I am so happy for you!

Hi, Aussie Girl,
You're not alone. I signed up for the sole purpose of getting my things at a discount because I was buying so much from my friend, who was a consultant. My recruiter and SD were cool with that when they were trying to get me to sign up, but as soon as I did, they were pressuring me to sell and recruit, looking down their noses at PUCs.

It's like when they promote MK as a great career to have so you can stay home and be with your kids, but after you sign up, they're trying to get you to hire assistants, housecleaners and nannies so you can go out and make your upline some money. The people I met in MK are the biggest hypocrites I've ever met in my life.

Now I know something's up...my returning thoughts are being confirmed. Now I need to know what the truth will be at tax time. Who can enlighten me here?

What are your questions about taxes, Wanna?

MK has already charged me sales tax when I place the order. In April I'm guessing I will need to pay tax on my "earnings", but I have been coached to make many deductible purchases with the goal being that I will get a tax return instead of paying. What's your experience here?

By deductible purchases, do you mean business supplies, like from Office Depot, or are you saying they want you to buy more MK products?

Business supplies, yes. But also hair, nails, house upkeep, milage etc. It's been my understanding that if I keep documentation, the return will be big and to consider it part of my income. I just found the discussion board....thinking that is where I should have asked.

Hair, nails, and house upkeep are not deductible. One of the many Mary Kay lies is that these things are deductible. Home costs are only deductible if directly related to running your business (ex. You buy a table that is ONLY used for MK parties at your house.), and hair and nails are never deductible.

Okay, business supplies should be purchased only for what it truly necessary to run your business. When you buy stuff just to get a deduction, you have to remember that you don't get that money back dollar for dollar. Those expenses are deducted from the amount of income that gets taxed. Also, remember the IRS is pretty smart. It would be obvious, if you were to be audited, if you are claiming purchases of supplies just to increase your deductions. It is always best to get advice from an accountant, so you know that you are doing everything honestly, and are complying with tax laws.

Hair, nails, personal MK products, drycleaning, hosiery, etc: none of that is a legal deduction. Many of us were misinformed about that when we were recruited. And none of the legal deductions are considered true income.

I think it would be a good idea for you to go ahead a post a new thread on the discussion board to get info from the many wise ladies here who know lots more about this stuff than me.

Welcome to PT.