Leaving Mary Kay is a grieving process, but in some ways it is harder than losing a loved one. When someone dies, there is a wake and funeral (or similar rituals), and the people around you can easily recognize what you have lost. Even if they can't understand, they know that there's a real loss, and they know it's personal for you. We don't get that kind of support leaving Mary Kay, do we?
When someone dies, it is sad, but you do know that it is something that happens in life. Sooner or later, we all lose someone close to us (a number of people, in fact.) And we understand that accidents, sickness, old age, are things that happen. When we did Mary Kay, we fully expected it to bring us some sort of income. I don't think it even occurred to most of us that we could lose money. When we work hard, and do what we're supposed to, we expect good results. Many of those who got the most involved in Mary Kay are those who are accustomed to making success for themselves, and not accepting failure. So we're not only dealing with a loss, we're dealing with our own completely unexpected failure. And even once we realize that we were set up to fail, it's still hard on those of us who are used to overcoming all obstacles until we finally achieve our goals. But the truth is, only those of us who try hard, and don't give up easily, get so badly burned. Some
of our best qualities led us to bigger losses than we should have seen.
Rarely do we seriously feel we caused a loved one's death (and for those who do, healing is a LOT harder.) IMO opinion, the biggest reason it's so hard to get over the Mary Kay thing, is that we all know we did it to ourselves. And not only to ourselves -- we hurt our families, and often friends and other people we intended to help.
It's not so easy to let go of the guilt, but it has to be done. It is nearly impossible to be right in our relationships with others until we can forgive ourselves. One thing that helps is to understand that when we did Mary Kay, we had normal and natural human reactions to the circumstances. It still stings some of us when a person come here and tells us how they were too smart to get taken in. We wonder, why didn't we see it? We thought we were smart, sensible people. And we are. The truth is, we were expertly manipulated, and human beings in general are susceptible to that. There are any number of psychological studies that show it. My favorite, because it is easy to read, is one that Lazy Gardens brought to our attention on the discussion boards a couple months ago:Brain Quirk Could Help Explain Financial Crisis This study showed how we turn off our own decision making when we get advice from an expert.
As to the other studies that have helped me... it can be hard to read these studies and learn what people are capable of. We'd all like to think people are better than that. But when we have done things we're not proud of, it can help to realize it doesn't mean we're bad people, or weak people, but that we're normal, trusting people. It's part of human nature to deal with the complexity of our world by using the guidance of others to help shape our judgement.
No one person can understand everything by himself. We especially tend to trust, and follow advice of, people in authority. Even when the experts say things that sound wrong, most of us have learned from experience that when we fight the people with more experience and authority, we only make things harder for ourselves, because it turns out that most of the time, they, with their greater knowledge and experience, turn out to be right. So if you have the stomach for it, check out the Milgram experiments, and the Stanford Prison experiment.
The other things that help are exactly the things we get from participating at PT. One is to realize we're not alone.We come here and find out that others went through all the same things we did. And we share our stories, too. Because the other thing that really help us recover is helping others. We can warn those who are out there doing their research before making the decision. And we can help our fellow alumni (of the MK school of hard knocks) with their recovery. That's what this place is all about.
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05 Jul 2009 21:42 | pinkladynomore
I so agree with what you wrote, Rachel. I just found yesterday that I have been locked out of intouch. I feel sad. I know I should feel happy but, I don't. I really thought I was going to make my life, my family's life, and other women's lifes better. Instead I sunk money into this stupid adventure that I could have used to help my daughter pay off her college loans. Now all I have to show for my time, money and effort is a basement full of outdated make-up and lotions. Most people complain about their directors trying to talk them into staying in Mary Kay. I never got a phone call. My termination came and went without so much as a phone call. I thought this woman was my friend. That one's good for a laugh. Not really. Maybe some day I will be able to forgive myself for being so stupid . . . for wasting money on stupid cosmetics and the like. I hope someday I can start to feel better about this whole mess I have gotten myself into but for now I'll just cry silently by myself and wonder what the heck happened.
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05 Jul 2009 23:14 | raisinberry
Great piece Rachel. I have an added reason for sticking around, and that's gratitude to the women who smacked me in the face, let me cry, and stuck around themselves to make sure I wasn't sinking in the mire.
Mary Kay used us, Directors. We were the puppets on the stage putting on a great performance as Our NSD's pulled the strings and the new recruits and IBC's watched. My trust in what I was told, was used to re sell any other person who came within 3 feet. My personhood, was tricked and manipulated and capitalized upon, to get them what THEY wanted at my expense. There are at least 50 women, who at my leading, went overboard financially because I believed what MK NSD'd taught...and I regurgitated it. And as long as we kept refilling the ranks with new Star Consultants, we all faired nicely-made no dif if they would EVER sell it...my numbers looked good. Yea me. Let 'em try! Don't prejudge! Anyone can make it! I rationalized.
Only anyone CAN'T. It takes a while but pretty soon you start seeing that NOBODY is "making it".---Not the way they say they are.
And if you Miss NSD have DIRECTORS who are not even on the Queens Court after 10, 15, 20, 25 years in the business...what the hell are you doing telling your 1st year consultant to "shoot for it"? WHEN YOU KNOW HER SUMMARIES DO NOT SUPPORT THE SALES VOLUME?
I have stayed because of gratitude to all of you...and I will remain, as I have said before, until MARY KAY ADMITS To the atrocities of the elite sales force, and MAKES CHANGES that prevents it happening to any others...
BUT THEY WONT cause they make too damn much money manipulating the easiest marks on the planet...trusting, aspiring, women.
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05 Jul 2009 23:31 | chopportunity
Thank you Rachel for your insight into our involvement in PT and the pain of leaving MK.
For myself, I choose to spend time on PT for two reasons. First, I find it theraputic to share my experiences in MK with those who understand and with those who need a warning. It is satifying to see someone post that they just signed up but now will not be ordering inventory or that they will not be signing up at all due to what they read on PT.
I enjoy helping those who come to PT seeking answers and advice. It has helped me heal.
Second I love the support and acceptance I find in this community. It is ironic that I have found the sisterhood I was looking for and did not find in MK, on PT with a group that has been labeled lazy losers, bitter unbelievers and revenge seekers. All not true.
It has been almost 2 years since I turned in my trays and mirrors and I am now at peace with my past MK experiences. I still have some touchy spots but for the most part I have moved on. Losing my unit was a lot like having a miscarriage. No one really understood what I was grieving over. I was told to get over it and move on. My loss was largely ignored by those close to me and I was shunned by my former MK sisters because I was no longer a card carrying member of the Pink Cult. What I found on PT was a group of women who understood my loss, acknowledged my pain and allowed me to grieve. Thank you my PT sisters for all you have brought to my life.
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05 Jul 2009 23:41 | lightershadeofpink
Rachel, Great subject! Last year at this time I had a knot in the pit of my stomach telling me I shouldn't go to seminar. I canceled the trip and lost most of my money but I knew I did the right thing. Then I stumbled on PT. I read and read and read. I was shocked. After being a top-performing IBC for six years I was stunned by the truth I found on PT. My recovery was slow to start. I thought I could stay in the business, take care of my existing clients, and purchase product for myself. The more I talked with others on PT the more I learned. I saw the evils of the business and the company and knew I couldn't be part of it any more. I also did a thorough financial analysis and figured out there was no way to make money in this business and I had to get out.
PT was there for me. Many women sent me private messages and messages on the discussion board. Over the months so many women not only coached me through the logistics of getting out of the business but helped me process the emotions as well. It has not been easy but it has be worth it.
I come back here often to continue the healing process and to help others heal. I also like the friendships and fun that happens that is also a part of PT.
MK is a manipulative cult that is very difficult to leave. Every facet of your life is wrapped up in the MK culture. Leaving means total upheaval of your life. PT is there for those who want to take advantage of the information, support, and truth so they can move on with their lives.
I am so grateful for this site and for the many intelligent woman who continue to post here and give their time to help others. We could all be spending our personal time getting pedicures, reading books, shopping, or any other pleasure but we choose to spend it here . . . to heal and reach out to others who so desperately need the truth.
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05 Jul 2009 23:45 | ciavyn
Rachel - awesome. I know I was one of the ones who brought up that issue after having been questioned multiple times over why I just can't "let it go" and why PT is part of my life. You said it, sistah!
What people don't expect...just like we didn't expect 9/11...just like we don't understand terrorists that kill their own people to attack others...is that people won't play by a certain set of civilized rules. There are rules of war, and when they are disregarded, we are shocked. In the case of Mary Kay, there are rules in society, rules of friendship, rules that we use to base our trust in people. Mary Kay breaks every one of those rules, and THAT is what makes these women successful.
Good, salt-of-the-earth people would never treat people the way these director's do. We value our people too much. Friends, coworkers, even the cashier at the grocery store...when we see them often and establish relationships, we in turn create a mental and emotional bond on some level. When these people disappear from our lives, we feel the loss. We miss them. When the relationships are especially close, the loss can be devastating.
In Mary Kay, the loss of people is just point of fact, and you must accept it. You cannot hang on, remain friends, or in any way weaken your arsenal of time and money. You must push on, ignore the old, and only focus on the new. And let's face it, we've all heard that "third rule." Third are just coming in, a third are working, and third are leaving. You are to focus on the third that are coming in, and only the parts of the working third that want to move up. Otherwise, you can ignore the rest.
So often I can remember saying at each event, "Boy, I miss Jen," or "What happened to Tara?" or "It's not the same without Brandie." My director would offer that big blue-eyed, white teeth expression, shrug a shoulder, and say, "They chose not to work their business. Did you see the classes you get to take?" And the discussion would be dropped, as though those people did not exist.
Mary Kay's whole marketing plan is based around "MK girlfriends." Yet, as you saw from the letter I received, suddenly that is tossed out the window if you decide that your life should take another path.
To those that are new here...YOU ARE NOT ALONE, and unfortunately, many, many of us have had similar experiences. IT IS NOT YOU. NSD's and directors are messing with the very fabric that creates relationships and cements social norms. THAT is unethical, immoral, and vile. You are right to be hurt - you should be. Someone tried to destroy you. And if you are angry - good for you. That proves you are normal, too.
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06 Jul 2009 01:56 | freshoutofpink
Thank you Rachel for bringing this up. I could barely read it all before I had to share. It is truer than true.
Chop, what you said about losing your unit made me cry and miscarriage explains it pretty well! A death is final but the death of my MK dream is not. The remembrances are everywhere. The friends who used to care so much that now could not possibly care any less, etc. etc. I broke my foot 10 days ago and have been in a cast, laying in bed or on the couch since then. My SSD can't even find the time to call let alone pay me a visit. I am now the outcast. It hurts so much. I slaved for her. I did Directorship to please her. I brought meals to her family at different times amd most of all I supported her unconditionally all because "I lived for morsels"! (Thank you Raisen, that was so profound!)
We had a lesson in Sunday school yesterday that totally adds to what Rachel said. Listen to this:
Using the learned skill of communication, people can cause others to not think for themselves and in fact they will allow themselves to believe a "story" or a lie. The skillful communicators object is to convince that person that what truth they believe is instead the lie and not real! People become effective at communicating to dupe others for their own purposes but we need to become skillful at listening and thinking for ourselves. Giving yourself up to others will cause you to not think and blindly follow the communicator. (so true)
Now the good news is that anybody can be taught wisdom. It is not dependent on actual IQ. We teach a child wisdom when we tell him or her not to play in the street. That's wisdom. And for an adult, if it sounds to good to be true, it very probably is! Mary Kay sounds to good to be true and it most definately is! The money, the friends, yada yada. Make me barf!!! Everyone can learn wisdom.
That is what is taught here at PT. Wisdom! Anyone can and hopefully will learn from our mistakes.
I am learning to think skillfully. I overrode my gut for four years in
Directorship and I think I have figured that out. I was not thinking skillfully for 29 years.
My pastor said we become covetous and it rules our thought! Is that not the MK way? OMGoodness! I own up to thinking that the money was there and someone had to make it. It might as well be me. Gross! He said using skillful thinking will cause you to make a judgement and a verdict about what is right and the best thing to do, what is equitable, fair and even. MLMs are NONE of these!
Mary Kay is making money off someone else who doesn't know what to do and walking on her back to get where you want to go. It goes way beyond just elitism!
The scripture reference is Proverbs chapter 1: 1-3.
I don't know if this makes much sense as I am writing furiously, but I had to share with you all.
In a nutshell, learn to think skillfully and develop wisdom.
I have some other things to say but I will get back to them in a bit.
Thanks for listening and thank you Rachel for a thought provoking article! Thank you Lord for confirming it to me before I even read the article!
There is a way out!
PS. Did I ever tell you I hate Mary Kay!?!
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06 Jul 2009 02:03 | pinkpeace
Rachel - well done!
Simply put, I stick around to help other women, especially directors, know that they were NOT the only ones that experienced director hell. SDs are instructed never to share their less-than-success stories, never to show doubt or weakness, and never to question the wisdom of Mary Kay the woman or the company.
Consequently, they automatically blame themselves for any difficulties they go through, and it becomes the most isolating experience imaginable. I left MK on my own, never knowing about PT until later. I wish I had known about this resource and the incredible women who post here years ago.
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06 Jul 2009 02:03 | freshoutofpink
Thank you Rachel for bringing this up. I could barely read it all before I had to share. It is truer than true.
Chop, what you said about losing your unit made me cry and miscarriage explains it pretty well! A death is final but the death of my MK dream is not. The remembrances are everywhere. The friends who used to care so much that now could not possibly care any less, etc. etc. I broke my foot 10 days ago and have been in a cast, laying in bed or on the couch since then. My SSD can't even find the time to call let alone pay me a visit. I am now the outcast. It hurts so much. I slaved for her. I did Directorship to please her. I brought meals to her family at different times amd most of all I supported her unconditionally all because "I lived for morsels"! (Thank you Raisen, that was so profound!)
We had a lesson in Sunday school yesterday that totally adds to what Rachel said. Listen to this:
Using the learned skill of communication, people can cause others to not think for themselves and in fact they will allow themselves to believe a "story" or a lie. The skillful communicators object is to convince that person that what truth they believe is instead the lie and not real! People become effective at communicating to dupe others for their own purposes but we need to become skillful at listening and thinking for ourselves. Giving yourself up to others will cause you to not think and blindly follow the communicator. (so true)
Now the good news is that anybody can be taught wisdom. It is not dependent on actual IQ. We teach a child wisdom when we tell him or her not to play in the street. That's wisdom. And for an adult, if it sounds to good to be true, it very probably is! Mary Kay sounds to good to be true and it most definately is! The money, the friends, yada yada. Make me barf!!! Everyone can learn wisdom.
That is what is taught here at PT. Wisdom! Anyone can and hopefully will learn from our mistakes.
I am learning to think skillfully. I overrode my gut for four years in
Directorship and I think I have figured that out. I was not thinking skillfully for 29 years.
My pastor said we become covetous and it rules our thought! Is that not the MK way? OMGoodness! I own up to thinking that the money was there and someone had to make it. It might as well be me. Gross! He said using skillful thinking will cause you to make a judgement and a verdict about what is right and the best thing to do, what is equitable, fair and even. MLMs are NONE of these!
Mary Kay is making money off someone else who doesn't know what to do and walking on her back to get where you want to go. It goes way beyond just elitism!
The scripture reference is Proverbs chapter 1: 1-3.
I don't know if this makes much sense as I am writing furiously, but I had to share with you all.
In a nutshell, learn to think skillfully and develop wisdom.
I have some other things to say but I will get back to them in a bit.
Thanks for listening and thank you Rachel for a thought provoking article! Thank you Lord for confirming it to me before I even read the article!
There is a way out!
PS. Did I ever tell you I hate Mary Kay!?!
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06 Jul 2009 03:06 | Tabitha
I haven't found anyone in personal life who has decided to leave mary kay for ethical reasons. The people I know who have left mary kay left because they weren't making money and they thought it was their fault. I try to explain that MLMs are scams to 'pay' your upline. They still don't believe me. The brainwashing in mk runs deep. I come here b/c it's the only place where people understand what I have been through. When I was in therapy for post-partum I would talk about mk all the time and I wouldn't even admit to her that I was losing money hand over fist. I wouldn't tell her about the pressure to "help the unit" - only that I was glad to. I wouldn't tell her about the friends that no one speaks of anymore. That is how deep the brainwashing goes - when you protect the company's image from your therapist. How sick was I? I have since realized that I was depressed nearly my entire mk 'career' - I don't believe it was post-partum at all.
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06 Jul 2009 05:44 | dupedbypinkfriend
Many of us at PT are also here because no one else truly understands the predicament that we find ourselves in. Your MK "sisters" dump you because you have become poison. Your husband sees your pain, supports and loves you still, yet can never really understand how it could happen to his bright and honest, hardworking wife. You try to explain it all to your friends, and they forgive you for the pressure that you put them under, but unless they experienced it, they have trouble wrapping their minds around how you became a robot.
Our anger is validated here. Someone who has been in the same boat can easily comfort and console those who have lived the same madness. And we scramble to help newcomers so that they may abandon their own journeys of destruction.
An added bonus: we have a blast teasing each other, joking around with tongue-in-cheek Mary Kayisms, and ridiculing the Mary Kay cult and our past idiocies.
So, Rachel, thanks for putting this out there. And newcomers, get registered here at PT, sort through your pain and anger, and join in the fun!
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06 Jul 2009 05:49 | Graceful DiDi
Thank you rachel for bringing up the post again. I have nothing insightful to say. everyone has already covered everyhting. I am just grateful to have a place to come to and feel safe about expressing my feelings, stinking thinking or not.
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06 Jul 2009 06:18 | chopportunity
Hey Tabitha, hugs to you from Chop. I was also deeply depressed the entire time I was a director in MK and for the year after stepping down. My weight ballooned as I gained 65 pounds during that time. I could not sleep, my stomach was in a knot all of the time. I was so sad and so mad that it was scary at times. I totally lost it one day in the parking lot of my bank talking on my phone to my SSD. She accused me of not caring about my business and for not working hard enough and I just started screaming into the phone right in the middle of the parking lot. Then I hung up on her.
She never brought that up and we went on like it never happened. So weird!
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06 Jul 2009 07:04 | ttp
Excellent job Rachel.
My guilt stems from the fact that I was so in need of friendship and support, and knew my office would be closing in a matter of months, that I grabbed onto this scam of an opportunity to save myself. Things weren't adding up and my inner voice was SCREAMING this isn't right. Yet I recruited two women using the same vile tactics that were used on me. When I dropped out of the MK scene, I abandoned them, the same way I was dumped when I stopped producing (ordering.)
PT wasn't around then, so I just muddled through, sent my product back, dealt with the shunning, divorced my hubby thanks to the husband unawareness plan, and put my life back together. PT has belatedly validated everything my inner voice tried frantically to tell me.
Now I am 12 years older, and much wiser, and I have a voice. I use it to warn others against this predatory company that is Mary Kay.
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06 Jul 2009 07:55 | pinkpiddlin
As most of you know, I am an old-timer. I started my "MK career" in 1977. The catch phrases then were, "Mary Kay is a way of life" and my favorite..."You don't get into mary Kay, Mary Kay gets into you"!
Thanks Rachel...That was profound.
Tracy, can we make it required reading for anyone new to the site to read before they post. It might stop some of these over-zealous newbie katbots from writing their silly "love letters" and making fools of themselves.
PP
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06 Jul 2009 08:00 | Rachel
chopportunity[quote]Losing my unit was a lot like having a miscarriage. No one really understood what I was grieving over. I was told to get over it and move on. [/quote]
Ain't it the truth. When I left, I felt a lot of the same things I did with my divorce, too... I had failed at marriage, I'd been stupid to marry him in the first place, etc. At least with that, though, people understood something about how hard it was.
ciavyn[quote]There are rules of war, and when they are disregarded, we are shocked. In the case of Mary Kay, there are rules in society, rules of friendship, rules that we use to base our trust in people.[/quote]
That's just how it was, and it's something people just find hard to believe -- you don't even know how to explain it, and it's hard to even make sense of.
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06 Jul 2009 09:35 | raisinberry
And here is the real mind bender...they do all that, break the rules, shun, manipulate and con, all the while SAYING that they are godly, Women of excellence, faith first, Priorities in order, pink bubble "culture", on a mission from GOD! How are you going to stand againt that?. Why would you? You crazy?? ANd when you see what happens to the ones who are no more...(shun shun shun)...you really dont want to be in the same boat!
You wonder why your feelings are all balled up in a knot? try and figure out This hypocrisy!
It is classic cult...right out of the textbook...you might as well have been a hare krishna pushing flowers at the airport.
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06 Jul 2009 13:06 | lightershadeofpink
[quote]The friends who used to care so much that now could not possibly care any less, etc. etc. I broke my foot 10 days ago and have been in a cast, laying in bed or on the couch since then. My SSD can't even find the time to call let alone pay me a visit.[/quote] FreshOutOfPink, oh, this makes me so mad!
I left MK with a very sick husband. I got lots of calls and emails asking about his condition while I was in MK but after I quit I never heard from anyone. This is the most despicable thing about the MK cult! And they call them selves Christians. Yah, right.
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Great post. I was never in Mary Kay, but I was in MLM for 7 years. :s
I can't believe my husband stuck it out all those years, but he did. thankfully! He's wonderful.
It IS like a death or a huge loss of some sort...you lose customers, you lose sidelines, a whole built-in group of friends. A whole social network.
When I became inactive with my MLM, I felt about 20,000 pounds lighter...but I still had a knot in my stomach at the same time.
Such conflicting feelings.
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07 Jul 2009 05:14 | onelessSD
Great post Rachel! You all have captured my thoughts exactly. I was 'gung-ho' MK for many years, and during that time, I wasn't very thrilled with some areas of my personal life - my church life to be exact. I looked to MK to fill that void. This past spring, all that changed, and I realized that my true happiness isn't in MK, but in my relationship with God. So I've stopped pursuing it. (MK that is)
I came here first because of a friend who told me about it (a referral!) - I was shocked at what I read, BUT I was compelled to keep coming back because of what I found to be true. (it's been over a year since I started reading) What keeps me coming back is the 'realness' of the women on this site. Thank you ladies for all your support, encouragement and for keeping it real. Healing is a process and your support is priceless.
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07 Jul 2009 07:41 | imfree
I continue to read almost daily and post when I can because it's one of the few sites that gets to the nuts and bolts of the situations we experienced or observed while in MK or MLM.
I have read other sites (pro and anti) and while some of the other anti sites are honest/true I find the workings of this site more user friendly. Plus, I have gotten to know some of you wonderful ladies and enjoy your insights.
As far as the pro sites, well, I'm ANTI, so that's not going to work. And, incase anyone is reading (from the other sites, cause we know you do), I find that the pro sites STILL will not address the issues with out sugar coating/ignoring/blaming or just plain skimming over the real honest to goodness issues. I'm not asking for someone to completely change their minds for me, but to acknowledge the tactics and not the source (which is MK, btw) is just strange to me.
Anyhow, I found this site after I had already made the decision (year's earlier) to exit MK for a variety of reasons and just wondered if any one out there noticed some of the same things I had. Didn't have to google very far to find lots of disgruntled people! Plus, I knew some one going through DIQ and was very concerned. Like I've said before, I'm a 20 veteran and can not be fooled by the MKers anymore, although I never really was. Something always seemed *too good to be true*. Just for those out there wondering: Tracy nor PT has prompted any of my feelings toward MK, just confirmed them.
I have so much concern for women and those out to deceive them that that is why I post my thoughts and read when I can.
The deception goes much further and deeper than just about money, if you ask me (and I know you all will agree), but that's for another time.
I have so much to say but not near enough time. Thanks for being here.
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07 Jul 2009 07:43 | thinkpinkagain?
I consider it a blessing to have you all stick around: we need the reminders as to why MK is sucking us dry as the new seminar year starts and the new Star Consultant Program prizes are launched and the directors start in with the "new" excitement.
As new "cons" are conjured up to get us to buy buy buy its refreshing to come here to be reminded the emotional toil it takes on us. Some directors out there are masters of the scam, and they push each and every button we have to get us to do what they need us to do.
Buy inventory for THEM. That's the bottom line.
I look through the new Star Prize Catalogue and I have to seriously wonder why, for 1800, you get a black wrap, gloves and hat. Seriously? For 9600 Tiffany sunglasses?
Of course there are the lame prizes the directors are offering as well.
We come here to be refreshed and reminded. We need you!
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07 Jul 2009 07:56 | Rachel
[quote] Didn't have to google very far to find lots of disgruntled people! [/quote]
That's a relatively recent phenomenon. When I tried to my research back in... 2002, maybe, I couldn't really find anything negative about Mary Kay. Even pyramidschemealert.org, which is pretty anti-MLM, seemed to view Mary Kay as harmless. Rick Ross blogged that even though some MLM's were cult-like, others, like Mary Kay specifically, were good.
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07 Jul 2009 09:04 | ciavyn
Rachel - I wondered the same thing, because I didn't find this either, until after I had joined.
Just a thought here, and I'm not trying to rifle any feathers...but if you through God, Christianity, or religion into almost anything, Christian folk seem to think it is trustworthy. It is one of my biggest gripes with organized religion (yes, this filthy heathen DOES attend services...baptist ones no less - it's a wonder lightning hasn't struck me down yet) is that the people in it become like cult members: they believe whatever the leaders tell them, and go on blindly without really vetting their leader for themselves. Not EVERYONE, but the bulk of the people I've met who are church members take whatever the pastor says as gospel, and rarely think past it. They are afraid to raise the questions that the world (yes, namely me) asks.
Mary Kay does the same thing...and it's scary, if you get right down to it. We are so accustomed to not thinking for ourselves that MK doesn't seem so bad. They keep telling us how great and positive they are, and we believe them...because they say it and smile really big.
All MK had to do was give that ridiculous priority schedule (God first, family twenty-second...etc) and voila - people think they are harmless at worst and valuable and thought worthy at best.
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07 Jul 2009 11:38 | noMKBShere
The "friendship" and caring in MK is a joke. When the director in the unit I belonged to had offspring that eventually lost their units, she told them that they weren't welcome back in our unit. I don't know if that is standard procedure or not, but that is really cold and cruel.
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07 Jul 2009 15:46 | imfree
Rachel, you are probably right. I have been involved off and on and in 2002 was having my second child, so of course I wasn't looking/lurking on the internet at the time. I wasn't really *working the business* just ordering ever so often to get a few things for myself and a few friends.
I'm just glad that when I did decide NOT TO EVER do MK for a business and did a little research that there were women (or possibly husbands) already discussing the problems/nightmares of this company. I really started looking when a friend was going through DiQ; I was curious to see what she was getting herself in to. Not in my wildest dreams did I think I would really find what I found. I was hoping, of course, but still didn't believe I'd find you all.
Women have had doubts for years, I'm assuming, but no real avenue to break it all down like we have now. But, I have to say, if some one would have approached me a long time ago I would have gladly had a conversation about the problems, inconsistencies, lies and exaggerations. Even when some one wanted to talk (and you can tell who wants to, they have this look in their eyes like "Are you one of them or Can I trust you with this"
, but you try to stay positive for their benefit and you don't want to rain on their parade so you just say "Well, nice to see you again, take care".
I remember an IBC that was a good sales person and pretty consistent tell me she felt so much pressure from her/my adoptive director to hold the unit together that she just couldn't do it any more. And that was 8-9 years ago. I've always wondered what happened to her and if she ever got out completely. She was such a nice person and really did enjoy helping other's but with all that *helping* that director lost her unit anyway.
Thanks again for revealing all of your stories so we can all heal....
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07 Jul 2009 15:53 | imfree
Oh, I missed a point. When I did see this ibc I really couldn't tell if she wanted to *talk* talk or she was just venting. I regret that I didn't pursue the conversation further, but maybe at another time or place she found out for herself and came to her own conculsions about her own experience.
I definitely don't hide my feelings anymore, especially if asked, if it's possible that I can help some else. I'm not mean about, just honest.
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08 Jul 2009 01:16 | Rachel
[quote]...they believe whatever the leaders tell them[/quote]
To a large degree, that is human nature. You accept the advice of leaders, because they are in a position to know best. Adding a religious aspect may strengthen, but really, all they need is someone with authority.
No one person knows everything they need to, especially when first starting at someone, so the normal operation of things is that you are guided and trained by someone who does know. It works well, starting with the parent/child relationship, where it's essential for the child's safety, and moving on to mentors, doctors, bosses, and experts of various sorts. But it breaks when the person in authority doesn't really know... or is malicious.
And when the normal process is broken, it leads to all sorts of weird result while people try to cope with that.
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09 Jul 2009 02:23 | fionabologna
People wouldn't question why an alcoholic keeps going to AA years later. Same thing IMO. Having recovered from both addictions, I speak from experience. To stay sober (almost 4 years now *throat clearing pride*), I keep the memory of how aweful I felt fresh in my mind (not the guilt, just the pain). I don't ever want to forget how easily I feel for the MK trap...to let that lapse into the background would be to throw away the lessons, the gift, the growth I have attained in leaving MK. Additionally, were it not for the women who keep telling their stories, I would not have found this refuge when I needed its strenth-boosting properties most.
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09 Jul 2009 02:25 | fionabologna
awful, not aweful. fell...not feel.
(I will spell check, I will spell check, I will spell check....)
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09 Jul 2009 02:44 | fionabologna
Thank you...I didn't know life could be this grand. My worst days now are a thousand times better than my best days addicted to alcohol. I think "intensity seeking" is the trait that leads me to go overboard in so many things I do. Interesting sociological stuff...
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11 Jul 2009 12:04 | nopinkpsycho
I don't know if I posted this in another discussion, and if so, I apologize--my laptop has a mind of its own!
I started MK when I was in a horrible job situation with the boss from h**#. My Director "befriended" me and was so understanding. The first warning sign was when we went out to dinner with her husband and her. My husband immediately couldn't stand her and thought she was obnoxious. I tend to always give people way too many chances. I personally started to wise up when she recruited someone right out from under me at a restaurant. I've also seen on many occasions how nasty she is to her husband--in front of me!! (I can get grouchy with my husband, but wouldn't even think of treating him that way in public!) She is downright verbally abusive to the man. When my husband has questioned the financial aspects of MK it has started huge arguments and my Director tells me I just need to keep building my inventory and that it will pay off.
I also helped with a fundraiser for the MK Ash Foundation this spring and some of those "God-fearing" lovely pink kaybots were some of the nastiest, most hateful women I've ever met! Hardly the professional "career women" I was led to believe I would have as "sisters."
UGH!!! I can't believe I was so stupid!!!!
Thanks for listening!
nopinkpsycho
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Great post, Rachel! Having never really gone through alot of these feelings myself, I have been around PT long enough that alot of the ladies that are here and that come here feel as though they have been emotionally and financially raped, piliged(?sp) and left for dead by other women who made them feel they didn't want it enough.
We come here to recover. We stay here to share our experience, strength and hope with others to help them avoid the MK financial abyss.
And, depending on your financial state when you leave, you are constanly reminded by credit card statements every month that it was all a lie. I guess one of the biggest travisties of MK is that when the economy is at it's worst, they wouldn't blink an eye at taking someone's 401K to fill that empty wagon.