You're Just Bitter Because You Didn't Succeed in Mary Kay

1. Who exactly did she sell to? I bet almost everyone was a family member, friend of a family member or just a friend.
2. She's been in for only a month. Of course she's starry eyed! She "made" $2000. When her warm market dries up she'll see how hard it really is.
3. IT IS NOT YOUR OWN BUSINESS! Mary Kay Corporate says you run your own business so they can get out of giving you benefits and at least minimum wage.
4. It is certainly true that most people are not cut out to sell Mary Kay. They either do not want to harass their own family members and friends or they're tired of it.
5. I hate it when people say people's opinions are one sided when they don't agree with them. If there was a site totally dedicated towards Mary Kay devotees I bet she wouldn't say it was one-sided then.

I think it's sort of cute that she says she was never lied to and that she wasn't told she needed to buy inventory.

How would she know yet whether she has been lied to? She's only been in the business a month. Wait until she finds out about ordering minimums, website referrals, etc. And God help her if she decides to start recruiting.

And she wasn't told she needed inventory, because she's apparently already ordered at least $2000 wholesale, so her director got what she needed out of this deal. I'll bet anything that her director held a business debut for her where her entire warm market was there to buy. I used to do it as a director, and I could pull some big orders in one evening - but it didn't mean those sales could be in any way sustained over time.

And I'll also bet that her $2000 that she "made" is actually $2000 in sales on paper, with all kinds of discounts and giveaways. I wonder what she actually deposited in the bank.

I still haven't bought any inventory yet and have already made over $2,000 for my family from Mary Kay.

I just woke up and I misread this...I thought she wrote that she made $2000 from her family...hee hee hee!!

Then I thought - why is she bragging about that?

Truth Hurts says: "If there was a site totally dedicated towards Mary Kay devotees I bet she wouldn't say it was one-sided then."
Uhhhh there is. MK In Touch and every unit site is filled with MK positive baloney. She can go there.
Just about every new consultant is starry eyed for the first couple of months but wait until the reality sets in. She'll be back with a story to tell. For sure! And like the caring, loving people we are, we will listen and embrace her.

As soon as little sister's SD needs to meet some production goal for 'our car' then the lies will start, and the unnecessary ordering, and the push to recruit those fabulous family members, and the list goes on, and on, and on...

I still haven't bought any inventory yet and have already made over $2,000 for my family from Mary Kay.

This chick will fit in fine with Mary Kay. She already has the lying/exagerating part down. If she didn't buy any inventory, what did she sell for $4000? Remember, she "made" 2K already.

So she sold something(not inventory) for 4K but possibly 2 K (give her the newbie benefit of the doubt to not know she makes half of what she sells)

Maybe she sold her New consultant pin, that Dazzling Gold tone signing bonus ring,tickets to the meeting or guest event,or just recruited 5 women who did 18K production...Cause she didn't buy any..ANY inventory.

pinkpeace...of course she has already been lied to!

She JOINED!

We interrupt this thread to bring a public servant announcement.

Lie–noun 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3. an inaccurate or false statement.
4. the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers.

–verb (used without object) 5. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.
6. to express what is false; convey a false impression.

–verb (used with object) 7. to bring about or affect by lying (often used reflexively): to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed to lying his way out of difficulties.

Pink Lies
1. contrasted by white lies, which intend very little harm, Pink Lies are self serving intended to hide the truth not by overt manifestation but by omission. Pink Lies are true only to the extent that they give only partial information and depend on assumption and omission in order to blame shift any destructive results. (ie: nobody held a gun to your head)

This concludes our public service announcement.

More definitions:

A lie of omission is to remain silent when ethical behavior calls for one to speak up. A lie of omission is a method of deception and duplicity that uses the technique of simply remaining silent when speaking the truth would significantly alter the other person's capacity to make an informed decision.

Lying by omission is when an important fact is omitted, deliberately leaving another person with a misconception. This includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. One may by careful speaking contrive to give correct but only partial answers to questions, thus never actually lying.

Denial is a form of repression, where stressful thoughts are banned from memory. If I do not think about it, then I do not suffer the associated stress have to deal with it. However, people engaging in denial can pay a high cost in terms of the psychic energy needed to maintain the denial state.

But the reality is that some people in denial prefer the lethal consequences of their denial as long as they don't have to question their own motivations, beliefs, and ideologies. Those individuals, groups, or nations who live in the world of deep denial are practically untouchable by reality or rational argument.

Yep, Kaybots are the ultimate "untouchables". Living in their weird pink fluffy world, reality swirls all around them, but they are impervious to such negativity! That is, until they are served with divorce papers, foreclosures, and must unplug the phone to avoid the creditors disrupting their
positive outlook. The walls start crumbling down upon them, and it is a sad day when their denial will no longer protect them. Unfortunately, it usually takes more than a month for this to happen.

dearest ones..........
this is a rogue.
this is untruth.
this is a mk person, messin with you/us.
"still haven't bought any inventory yet and have already made over $2,000 for my family from Mary Kay." lol

just cuz someone sends an email to this site.
gives a testimony to this site, does not mean it is true. use your noggin! your gut.

come on now, this is the same way ya got roped into the god forsaken company. ya believed someone that lied to you regardless if she knew it or not. ya got taken.

this email is the same type of experience.

aight, take care of your hearts.

She sounds so like me a month in. The warm market so warm and giving. The praise so grand from your unit, SD, SSD,etc. The reality has not set in yet. Soon the referrals from her warm market aren't going to be so warm and giving...it will be WORK. It will involve humiliating yourself to perfect strangers. It will involve giving product away that you need to financially succeed, or minimum of deep discounts. Soon, she will be investing in the inventory...doesn't she want to be a star ... doesn't she know "stars drive cars?" and get the referrals (lol) from the internet? I only lasted 9 months in MK...and I can't comment on some aspects of others' experiences. But, from what I saw in my brief time...she'd better hang on...the ride is going to be (hopefully) eye opening.

AAAH, ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

She needs to send us another e-mail in 6 months. I bet she buys some inventory then, lol!

I can not wait to hear back from her after tax season.

Thanks for the definitions raisenberry and dupedbypinkfriend. Excellent!

I started to ask myself how does someone write a letter to Pink Truth that is so ignorant? Then I realized there was a point at which I was also that ignorant.
Let's see, 1 month, she's been in a whole month! Are you kidding me?
Is she implying that she knows more than the women here who were going NIQ, women who completed the Courts, women who have had long years in the business, and every woman who was successful at all by any Mary Kay standard?
What is being done to her is a travesty only she can't see it. It's the same travesty that was perpetrated on the rest of us. The difference is we woke up. Hopefully she will too but at this point she's not able to discern truth. Women are looking for something to believe in and they think they can have the moon and stars (and at least $2000) if they stay in Mary Kay! Wrong so wrong!

So to our mystery writer:
I hope you are still reading here.
Since you feel you have the right to come here and basically call us bitter losers, I feel that I have the right to tell you the truth. I say it in love and I hope you remember it because I believe you came here subconsciously looking for truth. Do you have doubt about things you've heard that don't make sense? Maybe you're starting to see your recruiter or directors "other face"? Heard some "extreme embellishments"? Bet you have!
If you will be honest and practice some critical thinking instead of bee-lieving everything you hear, you will begin to see the truth. And of course if you do not, you will blindly follow the pack and you will be hurt financially and in every other way.
Don't take it from us. In fact search it out for yourself because the truth is there. You will see it in subtle ways at first and then it will be glaring.
Of course if you choose to look the other way when the lying, abuse of other women, financial destruction, etc. go on, then you choose to be one of them.
Ignorance is one thing but purposeful choice is another. If you read here you have heard the truth. I hope you will consider it because your responsibility is now very great.

Everything about this letter is ignorant. It makes me sad to know the Mary Kay destruction continues.
Sad little Kaybots!

Artist,
you read it correctly. I think she tried to "cover" it up. She probably did get $2000 of orders from her family to get her started. The first mon is bliss for everyone. She'll be back in a couple months complaining bc now that she has that big order she will be "pushed" (but remember there is no pressure) to buy inventory. And she was lied to she just doesn't know it yet because she said nothing about recruits. Your nothing w/ out recruits

To the author of this email, please keep reading. Most of what we share on this site is based in fact.
Take me for example, I was in MK for 5 years and a SD for 2. One month does not make you an expert.
Please come back in 3 months and share how things are going. I bet that it will be an entirely different story. Until then please read more and comment less, you may learn something.

I started selling Mary Kay a little over a month ago, and I happened to run across your site this morning.
Either she sent out a mass email or told a few friends and family members and one replied and said check out PT.


I find your site to be extremely one-sided. Of course, not everyone is cut out to run a business, not everyone is cut out to be a Mary Kay consultant, or you would find everyone selling it, if it was sooo easy.
She talked to her recruiter/SD and they said what she wrote.


I am not sure what kind of Sales Directors those people on your site have but they were obviously not of any caliber.

No, they were of the honest caliber. The one who is pinkwashing your brain is not of any caliber.

I was never lied to or told that I NEEDED to buy inventory.
not yet, but you will since you cannot sell from an empty wagon! Ask your high caliber SD and recruiter how much inventory they have that sells itself?


I still haven't bought any inventory yet and have already made over $2,000 for my family from Mary Kay. And I do not have any other source of income.

not sure how this is possible, but ok.

I have three children under the age of four and I don't have much time to put into my business but I am doing well.

well if you dont have time to work your business, so remember that when your director tells you that in a few months.

I think your website unfairly takes the positions of those who could not fit into the Mary Kay program and makes it seem like a scam or an illegitimate business.
Because it is a scam and since there are more lies than not, it is illegitimate.


That is a ridiculous thing as I happen to be finding success with this business. But like I said, to each his own, but if you want your cause to be taken seriously, consider talking in facts, and not taking the words of a few bitter people and claiming it as the Mary Kay Way.

There are so many facts and ex members on the site, some very bitter but most not. Some just want to make sure you dont end up as one of the bitter ones who need to come out of the pink fog.

Oh yes, is this the same mystery writer who is also working in the corp part of MK? Who is your NSD? Or who is your mommy?

[quote]I find your site to be extremely one-sided.[/quote]
It's easy to find sites that tell you (in a very one-sided way) how great Mary Kay is. We want to make it easy to find the other side, too.

[quote]Of course, ... not everyone is cut out to be a Mary Kay consultant[/quote]
Which is one of the things we're trying to tell people. Mary Kay has absolutely no standards for who they recruit. And many recruiters will try to recruit people who just aren't cut out for doing sales. Just because your recruiter says you will be good at it, or that anyone can do it, doesn't make it true.

[quote]...or you would find everyone selling it, if it was sooo easy. [/quote]
In fact, there are far more people trying to sell Mary Kay in the U.S. than the market can support. And that is (in part) because so many recruiters present it as being easy. But the truth is, the competition among consultants if fierce, since there are too many of them, and that's the main reason selling MK is really very hard.

[quote]I was never lied to or told that I NEEDED to buy inventory.[/quote]
Most of us weren't told we NEEDED to buy inventory. In fact, I'm sure we were all told it was optional, but we were also told that it would help us. Your director had no need to push you, since you already bought more than $2000 w/s in your first month, but most of us were pushed to buy things we didn't need. So when our sales directors told us that inventory (although optional) would help our businesses work better, and that if we were serious about our businesses, we would buy inventory, they were lying to us. (Actually, in most cases, they truly believed this, so it wasn't exactly a lie on their part, but we still ended up deceived.)

[quote]I ... have already made over $2,000 for my family from Mary Kay.[/quote]That's great!
[quote]... if you want your cause to be taken seriously, consider talking in facts[/quote]
Well, here are some facts. Even if you had super-low expenses and gave no gifts or discounts, you had to order more than $2000 wholesale in your first month to make more than $2000. Now, it's possible to find out from Mary Kay how many consultants they have (or at least how many active consultants they have), and from the Applause magazine, how many of them were ordering more than $2000/month (or counted as more than $4000 in retail sales.) If you do that, you will be able to see that your experience is not typical. (One thing you do have to keep in mind is that any monthly or quarterly data will be skewed by consultants who are making initial inventory purchases, which don't represent actual sales. So it's better to look at yearly totals. Most people won't continue to order much more than they need for an entire year.)

Here is [url=http://www.pinktruth.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1258&Itemid=69]a link to a PT article that does something like that[/url]. It shows that the highest selling member of a top selling unit made less than $1000/month gross profit. There are many of those kind of articles on this site. I'd say a couple times/month, we show some data that were provided either by Mary Kay, or by an active Mary Kay sales director, or by consultants, and analyse them. All of those that look at sales show that almost no one gets consistent results like you had this month.

So I have to tell you that our site is not directed toward that 1 in 10,000 women who can actually earn some confortable amount by doing sales part time. It is directed toward the other 99.99% of us. Just because you had high sales one month, does not mean all our analysis of large data sets, and the experiences of our thousands of members are wrong.

Other articles show copies of actual training material used by many different directors, senior directors, and NSD's, and show how the things they are saying distort the truth, or are outright lies. We are showing the facts of the training commonly done in Mary Kay.

However, we feel the experiences and opinions of people who've been through it with Mary Kay over the years is very valuable, too. Our purpose is not only to provide information, but also to provide support for those who have been hurt. We aren't going to do that by letting people come here and give us sales pitches about how great Mary Kay (or whatever MLM) is. We're going to do it by sharing our common experiences and talking about why they happened.

[quote]I have three children under the age of four and I don't have much time to put into my business but I am doing well.[/quote]
The usual situation is that a consultant gets her highest sales in the first couple months, when she's selling mostly to her "warm market", family and friends. Usually these sales decline, since they aren't based on the family/friends' need for the products, but on them wanting to help the consultant get started. Replacing those sales with sales from people you don't know, is a lot of hard work. So the usual pattern is that after your first couple months, you work harder to make fewer sales. So while you're off to a great start, you should know that it's unlikely you'll continue to make $2000/month with part time effort. In fact, it's unlikely you'll consistently make $1000/month with part time effort. Only a tiny percentage of the very top sellers actually order enough that there's any possibility they could make as much as $1000/month, and we know that some people do Mary Kay full time, so you can be pretty sure that those top sellers are full time MK-ers.

However, I will say that if so many people like you so well, that they bought more than $4000 worth of Mary Kay in your first month, then you truly can expect to do better than most. If you avoid the traps of buying things you don't need, and recruiting, you will probably be able to make some pocket change part time with Mary Kay.

If you start trying to treat it is a career, you will find yourself in a whole different world, and we will be here for you when you need us.

[quote]...not taking the words of a few bitter people and claiming it as the Mary Kay Way.[/quote]
I hope that you realize the numbers of our membership (those who actually post their experience) are no smaller than the numbers who truly show potential for making a reasonable amount of money according to the Applause magazine (assuming they actually sell everything they order and their expenses are low.) The few people who are honestly successful in Mary Kay are no more representative than the "few" on this site who couldn't make it work, despite trying very hard and doing everything we were trained to do. In fact, we are pretty well convinced that our experience is far more representative.

Great response Rachel! Really, really good.

"I am not sure what kind of Sales Directors those people on your site have but they were obviously not of any caliber."

Bzzzt - wrong answer, but thanks for playing! Your consolation prize is the PT Board Game and a Venti-sized bottle of Similasan Pinkeye Relief.

Honestly, I love how each time a questionable teaching in Mary Kay is exposed, the Fogged meet it immediately with, "That director was just a bad apple" or "That director was of low caliber."[/i]

Friend, here's a news flash: those supposedly "bad apple" directors learned how to frontload and manipulate from somewhere. They were told that those practices were the right thing to do in order to move up Mary Kay's career ladder. Those "low caliber" teachings came from the lips and keyboards of senior directors, NSDs, and to an extent, Corporate itself.

NSD Shannon Andrews' website warns consultants, "Listen to everything your director tells you. She has a vested interest in you."

A vested interest, eh? That must mean my director cares about me! And if she cares about me, I can trust her, right? After all, she's a director and has earned the position, just like NSD Pat Fortenberry says!

Can we trust these teachings, or are these leaders just "bad apples?" You be the judge:

"If you have a K-Mart mentality, you'll only have K-Mart customers...if you want the Nordstrom's client, you had better have a Nordstrom's attitude and inventory!" (NSD Pam Shaw)

"I haven't known yet of a divorce over an MK set...if you go ahead and get it and your husband throws a fit, you've still got it!" (Objection overcomer taught by an FEESD, although I have seen variations of it on NSD-penned documents.)

"One of the reasons you can be terminated as a consultant is for negativism." (NSD Rena Tarbet)

So to recap: Frontload, manipulate, and always wear your unquestioning, sheeplike smile, thus saith the glitter-washed tombs perched atop the Mary Kay's pink pyramid.

[IMG]http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z227/sportica/doingtricksformk.jpg[/IMG]

Sorry y'all I know I'm very new to this but I just had to comment.

Quote "Of course, not everyone is cut out to run a business, not everyone is cut out to be a Mary Kay consultant, or you would find everyone selling it, if it was sooo easy."

Interesting how if it were that easy everyone would be selling it, yet they TRY to get everyone to sell it saying it's so easy!

When's the last time you got a real job without an interview? Did you have to provide references? Did you have to explain any bumps in the road (i.e. taking off to have kids)? Any education requirements? Did you have to wait on pins and needles to see if you got the job?

The Mary Kay Way is recruit 'em all and let the credit card limits sort 'em out!

If she hasn't bought inventory, what's she sellin?

I love letters like this, as I am so glad to see she came to the website. I hope she reads and learns and reads and learns some more. If she does then mission accomplished!

What the heck? How did she make $2000 without an inventory? This sounds super fishy to me. One of the first things they do is pressure you into buying inventory. I think this whole thing is bogus. I really do.

She's a nuthead!!

Makes you wonder how a busy mother of four and someone who is kicking ass inside of a month just happened to come across this site, let alone have time to write. I would think there wouldn't be any time. Sounds to me like the only ass she's kicking is her own.

Mom of Five Too: The Mary Kay Way is recruit 'em all and let the credit card limits sort 'em out!

That is so true.

"I am not sure what kind of Sales Directors those people on your site have but they were obviously not of any caliber."

Our sales directors include NSDs and EESDs, and several of us know them personally.

How much more caliber do you need?

Hey One Month Super Kaybot,

Reflections is mind numbingly one-sided.

Ugghhh. I mean...how can you even begin to defend Mary Kay! If this company is so great why is there such an enormous consultant turn over!? I am a sales person for an actual reputable company currently. If I wasn't cut out to sell then why am I so successful in sales??

GooodbyePink, excellent point. I am also in sales, and it is amazing how one can be successful in that industry when the product is a good one and the business model is up to date. Y'know? Like, as in, not stuck in the sixties? And, is not a wonderful opportunity only in the minds of the seriously brainwashed!

Bitter is better! Give me bitter any day of the week, over living my life in an unreal state of denial and self-hypnosis! Bitter is just a stage to endure on the road to a healthy lifestyle; one in which I don't have to lie to myself every day.

I've read some of those pro-MK websites. Here's their stories; they become all rah-rah when a PT alien invader attempts to open their eyes to the real truth. Then they post their great success stories of how they held one class and netted $2,000! (yeah, right!) Some even take the time to fabricate, I mean break it down into time spent on phone and setting up classes, actually deducting dollar amounts from the gross party totals.

And now if you'll excuse me, it's time to feed my unicorn, and I must get Santa his dinner.

And, oh darn it! Where is all that profit I earned in my first month selling, without buying inventory?

Um, I guess Peter Cottontail must have nibbled it all away!

[quote]And now if you'll excuse me, it's time to feed my unicorn, and I must get Santa his dinner.[/quote]

ROTFLM*behind*0!!! Good one!

Mary Kay [color=fuchsia]IS[/color] a scam.

She'll be back.

OMG pinkylee, you have a unicorn! Wasn't that a star consultant prize for buying $10,000 of product in 1 quarter?? Ooooh, lucky YOU!!! :s I'll bet they left out the whole expense picture of what it really costs to care for this unicorn. I mean, they eat special food, not just any vet will help care for it and the room you need to provide for it is pretty big. It will definitely take time away from your family. It can be pretty costly! Of course, it's too late now b/c the "attachment" is already there! Boy, if we could have only foreseen the outcome, huh?

BTW, I'm not commenting on our 1 month Einstein! :s You ladies already know what name I'll spill...but I'll give a dollar to the first person that guesses it!

Um....dingbat? Ornery? Disillusioned alien Kaybot?

Noooooo, you getting warmer, though!

I'll bet they left out the whole expense picture of what it really costs to care for this unicorn.

I was told to hire assistants to take care of all that!

[quote]I was told to hire assistants to take care of all that! [/quote]

Yeah, but I bet they told you that after you already had the unicorn!

obviously this girl was "pink" enough to quickly get on here and spew her story - but too "yellow" to come back here to face the truth. She's not worth my time.

She didn't buy any inventory, because she probably got a truck load of free MK from other IBCs who donated their product to charity; free box loads of MK from Ebay and Craig's List people who couldn't even sell MK for 99 cents or she found a dumpster full of Product Returns behind Corporate in Texas which includes returns from Pink Truth and others who have seen the light. LOL

Okay, the thing about not buying inventory is not as dumb as it sounds. When you have products in stock, they are inventory. When you buy products that are already ordered for immediate delivery, that's not inventory.

Scribs, that picture is worth a thousand words!

momoffive...brilliantly simple exposure of mary kay hyberbole and hypocrisy!


"Interesting how if it were that easy everyone would be selling it, yet they TRY to get everyone to sell it saying it's so easy!"

Yes, she could've bought the products, after just showing the catalog to her family and friends, but it is also possible that she sold her director's "extra" products, and reimbursed her with the "profit", leaving herself the 40% or so actual profit...not enough to replace products and get samples, demos, and other section 2, etc. Funny, she didn't mention any
section 2! Again, show us the paperwork!

One last comment to this One Month Expert of all that is MK, I am better, not bitter, because I failed at MK.

Well......one month is probably not enough time to see the lies yet. I sold $1800 in my first three weeks. I spent most of it on inventory even though I started with just a $600 initial order. Did you sell $4000 in product to make that $2000? Or did you sell $2000 and actually make $1000? And in reality you would not make that much because of skin care class supplies (sect. 2) and any discounts you gave out. So in reality you probably made about $800 in profit, but did you bring that home? Or did you spend that on a big order?

@#$$%^^%& NEWS FLASH!!!!!
When your friends and family have all of the Mary Kay they could ever want for about 6 months you will have to go out in the world and sell, sell, sell to strangers, call strangers, and go to strangers houses for skin care classes. Do you know how many leads I had when I quit...about 400. Yes, 400 strangers that I had to call and try to book a party with. I was good, one of the best in our unit and it was hard, very hard. Be prepared for this and if you have balls of steel you might do very well selling! I know, I did! I could sell ice to an Eskimo!
Don't get me started on recruiting because that is when the most lies happen and the greed of your director will come out. I am not saying that all directors are greedy, but most are! This is what happened to me, the greed offended one of my team members and I saw that she might think I was like that too. That is when I quit and my team member and I are still friends because we did not let our director's greed get in the way of our friendship.

P.S. I was wearing my PT shirt grocery shopping yesterday and I ran into a fellow MK friend who is still doing it. We had different directors. She noticed my shirt but we did not talk about it at all. I gave her a hug. She was always nice to me and traded product with me when we did not have something. I hate to discourage people even if they are in
MK, but maybe because she saw me with the shirt on she will come here and learn why she has not made director yet, even with working so hard at it. She could spend her time doing something else better. I wish her the best and hope she does well in life. I am happy we are still friends.

I find this all a bit offensive. I know of a brand new Mary Kay Consultant (just signed up just 1-2 months ago) who really IS successful at it! She has a GREAT attitude and is just doing what she does best. She has had her struggles, sure, but she's overcome them. I don't think it is impossible to be successful in such a short period of time. I know her sales director didn't tell her she had to purchase inventory, too. Usually I can see both sides of a situation and understand them quite well, but, this, I find offensive. Just my opinion and input, ignore me if you wish...

Newbie08, there are no doubt many opening scenarios that appear decent and wonderful for all new recruits. Many of us started the same way. This might be hard for you to understand, but well meaning women get squeezed into the "system" which is Mary Kay...the internal operation and technique of staying alive in mary kay, that ultimately distorts their behavior, their language, their thoughtlife, and then ultimately their moral code.

Within that system, NO ONE tells the truth. I promise you, when you have been spoon fed the "positive mental attitude" cult---real problems are NOT ALLOWED, and you quickly learn that at guest events and meetings, you will be "frowned upon" for EVER verbalizing an outcome that wasn't 100% WONDERFUL!

All "problems" go UP, never to peers. So that makes each new consultant THINK that only she is having difficulty. Only she can not tell you.

So when you think that everything is SO WONDERFUL in Mary Kay, that is a scripted, NSD approved communique, with absolutely no basis in truth...

And the longer you are in, the worse it gets.

Do you really think that success in a business can be measured within a one or two month period?

There was a real business in my town, which enjoyed great sales when the biz was brand new. Their friends and neighbors supported them. The community came to check it out to satisfy their curiosity, and to try out the product. The parking lot was full every day for several weeks.

Gradually, the traffic tapered off. The newness had worn off. The friends and neighbors had done their part in helping the biz get started. The product was not special; a likeness could be found anywhere. One could find the same thing cheaper elsewhere.

The biz started putting up banners, advertising the same old stuff at a different angle. They tried to get a different group of people with specials and sales. Try after try, it became apparent that they were desperate. The more they tried to attract business, the more people stayed away. Folks went where they weren't hounded to buy the products.

That biz closed last month. No one has missed it one bit. You can not measure success in one month. Period.

Newbie - usually people get offended when they see a reality involved in the comments. As has been stated here over and over, the first few months is selling to family and friends. A person can only use/buy so many cosmetics, so very soon your friend will need to begin selling to those she doesn't know. That's when she'll see how hard it is. I'm not sure how an IBC who's been selling for 2 months can possibly compare company policy knowledge with someone who's been in the business for 10, 15, or 20 + years. That is not meant to insult you in any way, but it's just a fact.

I am new to pinktruth myself and have spent many hours reading these stories. I was involved with MK many years ago for only a short time but I experienced alot of what these women are talking about: the inventory push, overcoming objections, and stellar sales in the first month or so.

These women share stories of THEIR experiences in order to help others. They open their hearts and share their sad stories in hopes that they can spare others from the dispair and financial ruin they've encountered. I say bravo, and most of all, THANK YOU.

The real offense here is that MK is still allowed to operate its business. There will be disgrunted employees anywhere you go, but how many companies are responsible for such widespread employee debt (they may say you own your own business but all MK consultants are glorified comissioned employees)? How many companies would CONTINUE to encourage employees to keep buying inventory, even when they know it's not being sold? How many companies would turn the other way and ignore the 99% failure rate of its employees and still keep encouraging recruiting?

None. None other than Mary Kay. THAT'S what I find offensive.

[quote]None. None other than Mary Kay. THAT'S what I find offensive.[/quote]

And MLMs in general. SSDD.

[quote]I find this all a bit offensive. I know of a brand new Mary Kay Consultant (just signed up just 1-2 months ago) who really IS successful at it! [/quote]

We're not saying you can't have success in the first month or two. We're saying that good results in the first month don't predict success in the future. Most people in Mary Kay sell more in their first month, or at least sell it far more easily, than they ever will again.

So one person selling a lot in her first month just isn't proof that Mary Kay is a good opportunity (even if she gave us any evidence to show that she actually sold that much, which she didn't. And since Mary Kay people are known to be trained to make themselves sound more successful than they are, it's hard to be sure if she's really giving us straight info here.)

[quote]She has a GREAT attitude...[/quote] So did I when I first started. Many of my friends were impressed with how good I was at it, and thought I was doing great. I thought I was doing great, and was pleased with how much I sold.

Granted, I didn't well the $4000+ retail that this person claims. (Did your friend? Do you know how much she actually sold and what her expenses were?) I did sell over $2000 retail in my first month, but looking back on it, I now realize that after considering expenses, I didn't make enough out of it to justify the amount of effort I'd put in. At the time, I didn't think of it that way, because I figured I was learning, and I'd pick up more customers and be able to do it with less effort in future. I had that exactly backwards.

We aren't saying that no one could do the $4000+ sales in the first month, but we are saying it's unusual, and one person doing it is not proof that Mary Kay is a good opportunity for many people. We're also saying that almost no one has consistent sales at that level -- less than 1 out of 10,000 people do, and we can prove it using the numbers from Applause magazine.

[quote]She has had her struggles, sure, but she's overcome them.[/quote]
Oh, dear. If she's had struggles already in her first month or two, that doesn't bode well for the future. Mary Kay will never again be as easy as it was in the first couple months.

[quote]I know her sales director didn't tell her she had to purchase inventory, too.[/quote]
Neither did mine. She just gave me the company-produced brochures, showing what they recommended for inventory (along with the "free gifts" you get for ordering at different levels), and set up a meeting to talk to me and my husband about it. Then, over cofee, she gave us a 20 minute talk on why I'd be so much more successful if I bought it. She clearly said, several times, that it wasn't required. But she also made it sound like it was the smart thing to do. And she seemed like she would know, since she "obviously" was experienced and successful with Mary Kay.

Newbie08, I remember you from a few months ago on another one of theses threads. I thought the person you knew was you! At least it was back then!

Newbie, I'm glad you agree with me. I find her email to me a bit offensive too! Thanks for your participation.

Her struggles have been just the same as everyone else's. Picking up the phone, getting the dialogue down, remembering how to hold a class and close a class. She has taken strides that I never knew a new consultant could make. The sales directors are proud of her and are amazed by her every week. She really looks like she's going to be a huge success. She is also very encouraging and inspiring to be around. She has a naturally bubbly personality and hasn't hidden the negatives. I can tell when people are insincere about their "success". She's not one of them.

Newbie, if you want to support a very deceptive pyramid scheme and crow about someone who is able to be successful in it, then do it elsewhere. This is not what this site is for. There are too many successful consultants and sales directors on here. They use their experience to warn others away, not support Mary Kay in any way.

**sigh**

"I am not saying that all directors are greedy, but most are!"

I don't think directors can help being greedy on some level, quite frankly. And hear me out, director friends; I'm not dogging you on a personal level - promise.

The very existence of a Mary Kay director's unit, position, and pink car directly depends on the orders of her downline and the $600+ qualifying orders of new recruits. If a director is facing month's end, is $1800 short of production, and is meeting a prospect for coffee, do you think that director might be more likely to sell the benefits of an $1800 star order instead of saying, "No, you don't need that much just starting out; in fact, don't carry it at all. Go in peace."

Greed is defined as "excessive or rapacious desire, esp. for wealth or possessions." If a director is short on production at the close of a month, do you think she may be experiencing an "excessive desire for wealth?"

It is my view that Mary Kay Directors are not greedy out of malice, they are greedy out of necessity!

Newbie,
The first months of MK have a sort of dreamy glamorous feel. With all of that recognition, glitter and gold. IT feels so good to part of something.
Then you start to change how you dress and talk just to fit in and it still feels so good. All of those new friends who are all so glamorous too. If you go to events you feel like part of something bigger than yourself, like you are part of something good. You feel empowered.
Then you become ambitious and you want what your director has. She makes you want it, crave it, like a goal you never wanted so badly. You dream of earning that car and the suit. You dream of earning diamond rings and trips around the world. It gets inside you and starts consuming your every move and thought.
Then you start building your team and the little white lies don't matter because you are enriching lives. Now I will give an example of one of these common MK white lies, and believe me there are many!. We had a little list called the Ten perfect Reasons to Consider a MK Business. One of these reasons is, "There are no quotas or territories." The part about quotas is just a blatant lie. The only reason that MK ladies feel ok about lying about this is because a person is not required to do anything in MK that they don't want to do. Yet, there are quotas, a minimum of a $200 order a year is required to keep your consultant number. YOu might think that this $200 is not so bad but directors have a huge quota to keep there unit. I believe that number is $4000 a month in Unit Production. This is a required quota and the ten perfect reasons lies about it.

BLATANT LIE!!! And our beautiful glamorous directors train us to tell this lie at every skin care class.

Newbie, your friend will soon see these white lies after the first few months of glitz, glam, and feel good recognition starts to turn into subtle pressure and manipulation!

Scribbler,
Thanks for making my statement so clear. You knew exactly what I meant by saying that most directors are greedy. I know that they are not necessarily being greedy out of malice, but the company makes them feel like they have to get those orders to keep there unit. Though, I think my director showed her true colors and is actually very greedy in reality.

Thanks for that Scribbler..I dont think what we did was really tied to greed at all. It was survival. If you knew you had somewhere between 12 and 20 K charged on credit cards, and losing your Unit would drop your bonus and commission and you would ALSO loose your car...meaning dead broke in debt and no transporation...

And, all the messages from the upline are Personal business! personal recruiting! Inventory talk! Move your people up!...And all the "ticklers" on your intouch page say, " SusyQ needs just 515.00 more to be a sapphire...and Lady Luck is just about to lose her recruits, She needs to order, and So and So is just 18 short of the yada Yada Challenge...all these prompts are designed to get the Director to PUSH FOR PRODUCTION, as if all this are actual REASONS to order..!!!!

NEVER...NOT ONCE...Did an INTOUCH prompt say, " Check Summary Sheets and see who might be running low on product...Or Check Summaries and trouble shoot problems.

I can assure most Directors are not in the greed zone at all...they are trying to survive and live long enough to figure out why they keep landing in the same sh't pile

Can't imagine why someone doing so well would be here, let alone be offended. Its interesting that is the only example you can site of someone doing well. Isn't everyones product flying off the shelves??

pinkpinkustink: Thanks for that right-on description of the feelings behind the actions of "building your business." What you and Raisin said here paint the real picture and that's what keeps me coming back daily as part of my deprogramming of the brainwashed woman I became.

Only those who reached the level of Director and stayed there for any length of time know the reality of the complicated feelings...and actions...that have a cumulative effect on our finances, esteem and households. There have been some outstanding posts on this site that have helped me know that I'm not completely to blame for my losses and failures.

Now that I am just a Consultant filling reorders until I can replace the income, my life is so much less complicated, and it is a huge relief. I'm not thinking of anyone else's business and InTouch is no longer my home page checked a multitude of times daily. I'm searching feverishly for a new job so I can walk away completely and put the experience behind me forever.

I say good for her... family and friends are always there to support you it outside that circle. She has only been in it a month... she will be back here and telling her story wasn't so successful after all

I, myself, am not doing well. I've been a consultant since the end of February, but haven't sold a single item. I know that I could have worked harder, and, also, that I wasn't very able to at one point, due to the fact that my full time work schedule kept me away from the center on days they had activities and I didn't like how non-understanding one director was about it. I was never told there were no quotas. They make it quite clear that there is a quota in my area.

I know some of you remember me from a few months ago, I cannot be so easily labelled. I have my own mind about issues within issues. I just felt a bit offended at reading some of this post specifically.

I do know the feeling of the craving, however. I just hadn't thought about it that way before. This is one of the places that I will take what I want out of, but not all of it can be applied to me, so I can't possibly take ALL of it to heart.

I do think that this consultant didn't go about this very well. I don't know why anyone would send an email to anyone on this site just because she disagreed with the way you say things here. I don't see how she can say any sales director is of low caliber, nor how she can say you're all just bitter for whatever reason. I do have mixed feelings about this post and it's comments and can see both sides of each.

Well, it's a good thing you are here, Newbie, cuz you've already learned a few things about the flim-flam of Mary Kay, like it or not. Not all of it needs to seem to apply to you to be of a benefit to you. Just knowing about some of the goings on will help you make better decisions.

One more thing. It is often confusing for people reading about these things because it is in direct opposition to what they have been told. Many people are bitter when they learn that what they have been told is a lie, or think we are here lying about their newfound saving grace. It is a bitter pill to swallow indeed.

So innocent, so naive. Sadly she'll find out one day what the rest of us experienced found out, these companies are nothing but screw jobs that will take you for one heck of a nasty ride.

I just really wanted to leave a comment about this email.

I have been with Mary Kay for 4 and a half months now. I read all of the fine print before I started and called my Sales Director like a dozen times with questions. I was very surprised that no one pressured me to buy inventory because I heard that's what they do. So I don't feel like I was mislead at all as far as the initial investment I needed to make.

When I signed up, I knew I had to place a minimum of $200 wholesale every three months to stay active. What I wasn't prepared for were all of the extra expenses that came along with this. You don't really make 50% of your sales as everyone tells you. Here's what you'll really be getting: My last order was $98.00 retail. I should have made $49.00, right? Not the case. After purchasing requested samples, paying for shipping, and of course tax I really only made about $35.00 off this order. That's why I find it hard to believe she really made $2000. I'm sure it's much less than that in reality.

I have chosen not to purchase inventory. Regardless of what they tell you, your sales will be the same whether you invest in it or not.

Since I've been with Mary Kay I've sold about $938 retail. $400 of this total was stuff for me that I wanted for personal use. (which of course I bought for $200 wholesale)

I have always loved the Mary Kay products, and I enjoy my little business as a hobby. I just want everyone to know that it is definitely not worth it if you are only in this to make a profit...lol...it won't happen...not unless you are so lucky to have hundreds of loyal customers and never get into inventory debt.

Best Wishes

Also I would like to add that I still have not made back my $100 yet(for the start up kit)...even after selling $538 because don't forget about business expenses! (That's minus the stuff I ordered for myself)...chew on that

Wow...I came across this site purley by chance as I was looking for a color slip on to buy. I have spent a cuple hours reading through many various messages and topics and had so much going through my mind about it. I felt compelled to post a comment but wasn't sure where, as I could probably respons to hundreds, had I the time to do so.

Aside from being a little naive to suggest she knows so much after being "successful" after one month, I have to agree with her point. I am in awe in regards to how some posters are so vindictive and closed-minded. Of course I see many valid points; one shoe size never fits all. That goes both ways, ladies. The business is not "for" every lady. However, the horror stories and such do not apply across the board nor even close!

I don't mean to offend anyone who truely was mislead, lied to, scammed, etc. But honestly, in many (if not most) cases, you yourself are to blame. To be successful, as with anyone who plans to be while self-employed, has to have the right mentality, realistic expectations, commitment, finances, etc. There are so many variables and it is a risk for anyone. But why on Earth, do people have to seek out who to place the blame on? People have a tendency to not think relaistically at all times. I do it myself. But I can't hold anyone else accountable for my own shortcomings, ignorance, or mistakes. Why do so many on here? I know why...Because you fuel each other's anger.

I don't doubt fo one second, there are bad apples, both in corporate and as recruiters/directors. But this isn't "Mary Kay". This is human beings in general and they fall into every profession and every business. They are individuals. Mary kay is a company and they want a profit, just as every other business does. That is not a crime. Do they want you to recruit and sell? Absolutley. But that is not wrong. If someone deliberately lies or misleads, then that person (or group of people) are the ones to blame. I think many new prospective consultants are looking excitedly at the "opportunity" and they see what they want to see. If they don't look realistically, they are at fault. If they choose to purchase more than their income/finances can support, that is their choice, their fault. If they choose to go into debt, again, the same applies. To get anything out of it, you have to put in. This isn't rocket science....It applies to nearly everything! Come on, ladies!

If your director insists you have to purchase a minimum amount, or does anything involving high pressure, shame on her! But shame on you, too, if you didn't use your brain and think about the impact and reality of the situation! I am sure their are many out there who feel mislead. I am sure their are some who were entirely mislead & completely taken advantage of. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior, and those recruiters/directors should be reported. However, this is not the case for most.

The majority of those who quit do so because they got sucked in maybe, but due to their own flaws. Some quit for health, relocating, and many other reasons. But most simply like what they see, and succumb to a person "selling" them a dream. That doesn't mean that recruiter did anything wrong. It usually means we, as human beings, tend to look at things with rose colored glasses.

For those of you who honestly, and truely were lied to, I am very sorry for that. I would strongly suggest you report anyone who outright lied. For those of you who simply discovered that it wasn't your thing, was harder than you'd imagined, etc...I am sorry for you too, that you had to discover that after the fact. But please, don't blame other's for your choice. no one held a gun to your head. be practical, and admit you made a decision that didn't suit you.

If you allow a person to take advantage of you, you are just as much to blame. I had a customer that used to sell MK. I was shocked when she told me her director would help her choose inventory since she had no idea. Then she proceeded to max out her credit cards, beyond what she had been given permission to do. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior! I would report her if I knew who she was, and I would love to have words with her. However, this does not take the blame away from my customer. Why on Earth did she allow a stranger to take possession of her cards? Why did she blindy trust a stranger? She is a sweetheart, but she was very naive.

I started my MK business 3 1/2 years ago, and I love it and am doing well in my opinion. I sought out the business. I researched, talked to my now director. She never tried to convince me. She never pushed me to order more. I made a $600 initial inventory purchase because that was all I had. I made my mind up (was never pushed) to carry inventory because I don't want my customers to wait. So, as i sold (mostly used myself) in the beginning, I slowly built up an inventory. The fact I have inventory is what attracts many customers to me. They hate waiting on the consultant to order. Not always, but often times. I finally got a full inventory after about 1 1/2 years. Right then they changed to all the mineral. Yes, that was a little discouraging, because I fianlly got it all, and now I have to start over with all the cosmetics. So it took another 5 months or so to obbtain the "current" inventory.

My point is, there are bumps in the road, as with all jobs, all businesses, all in life period. How you choose to handle it is what matters. I am now making about $1,000 a month with Mary Kay, profit. Not a ton, but that's all I need. My husband has a good paying job, so this money is mostly extra. However, if I wanted more, I would have to work more.

I don't do parties (never even done one!). Not that I won't, I just haven't pursued it. I don't have a salespersony personality, so it would be hard to push that much. I don't search for recruits. In fact, I haven't recruited one person either. Again, if someone wants to, I would love to be their recruiter. But I personally am not pushy in the least, and a little shy and intimidated about doing so. So, why am I successful? because I did my reserch. I looked at the scenario realistically. I made a commitment. Amd I have a kind, honest, and genuinely supportive director.

So, before you overgeneralize and badmouth a company and all the "Kaybots" (seriously....) think about your own contribution to your situation.

If you are looking to get out, giver it thought first't be too easily swayed by either side. Look at it practically. Rarely does a business profit within a couple years! You have to give a little.

If your only reason for quitting is your director, tell her you don't like her pushing so much, if that is the case. If that doesn't work, or you can't talk to her about it, report her. Work it out with her or the company.

If you are interested in becoming a consultant, please research beforehand. Be openminded and practical. I am lucky to have a great customer base, extra income, and I wouldn't trade my director for the world! If you can't find that where you are, contact me and I will help! That's the closest thing to "recruiting" I have ever said, lol.

Again, I do not intend to offend anyone, rather offer less bias, anger-ridden, and blame seeking and more reasonable, open minded, and practical approaches to the topic. Thanks, Erica

Also, I should mention, I NEVER went into debt to start my business. My 1st tax year I had only been in it 3 months, so it was a business loss. Second tax year, I had a small loss. 3rd tax year, I broke even, and this tax year, I will have a profit. the profit will only increase as I have many loyal customers, who love my service and often refer me. This is all with no high pressure sales or recruiting! No skin care classes, no open houses, so calling people, etc. Now, if I can buy a product I love, make money of my own, and apply so little effort to do so, why wouldn't I be happy? Imagine what I could do if I was more outgoing and tried to do parties and recruit? Of course, when I say that, I mean in a moral and honest way.

I also want to comment on another thing. One member recently wrote that people who don't agree shouldn't be here, and then another person mentioned how few people mention anything in support of MK here. Number one, if you only listen to those who support your views, you never learn. Regardless of the opposing view, differing opinions SHOULD be allowed. I would say the exact same thing if it was the other way around. As far as few people having nice things to say, what a shocker! People who are happy probably don't even know this site exists! Why would they seek it out? They wouldn't even know to! I didn't know about it until today, and only because I want more drawers to hold my mineral makeup in. Why do I need that? Because I sell SOOOOO much, that I have to up my inventory to about 5 of each shade, therefore need more storage. I am being a little facecious (not in terms of numbers, but my attitude), but i find it so annoying when people are closed-minded. You don't have to agree with me at all, and I welcome a dgnified and respectful discussion of opposing views. I respect any opinion that has validity. That means I don't have to agree or even understand, but I can see they know what they are talking about and have reason to feel/belivew what they do. That is honorable and respectable, even if I completely disagree. What I don't like is those who blindly follow others, assume all they hear is true, or base decisions or judements without researching or fact checking. If you support me blindly, I have less respect than if you oppose me with intelligence and reason.

Jonica - Thanks for the hypocrisy. You need to do more research and have an open mind just like you are telling us to do. Are you aware that MORE THAN 99% of women who try Mary Kay LOSE MONEY! Why is that? You read for a little while and start slamming the THOUSANDS of women on this website who have had the exact same experience? Many very successful Directors have come on this site and exposed the deceptions that they are TAUGHT to use against new consultants in order to get into the "big girl's club" and "inner circle's". You really need to do your research.

jonica, you are making quite a few assumptions, and frankly I couldn't even finish your lengthy treatise telling us all about Mary Kay. The women on this site are about 90% successful sellers, many car winners and very many Directors. There are a number of Queens Court winners, Unit Club Directors and Cadillac winners. And had you attended Seminar, many here were your teachers.

Before you open your mouth to chastise, you might want to know who you are talking to...And who might be in the better position to know the inner workings of mary kay.

That's that open mind we like to see around here.

"I finally got a full inventory after about 1 1/2 years. Right then they changed to all the mineral. Yes, that was a little discouraging, because I fianlly got it all, and now I have to start over with all the cosmetics. So it took another 5 months or so to obbtain the "current" inventory."

In the 6 years I've been a personal use consultant, the compacts changed from pink to platinum to black.

Jonica, how will you feel the next time MK changes the color line and you will have to obtain another new inventory all over again?

Yes, your director didn't push you into purchasing more inventory than you wanted to, but how much inventory did you purchase before they switched to the mineral line? Your director knew far in advance that the line was changing and she still let you purchase soon-to-be outdated product so she could make production and get her commission at your expense.

Wow, the "bad apple" claim has been showing itself a lot lately! This thread:

"I don't doubt fo one second, there are bad apples, both in corporate and as recruiters/directors."

And again from a recent thread discussing inventory, from a different individual:

"It's unfortunte there are so many bitter ladie who have obviously come into contact with some bad apples..."

I'll repeat my original response to this. In Mary Kay culture, the "bad apple" defense is nothing more than an attempt to explain unbecoming behavior while - at the same time - washing one's hands of it.

The problem is that much of the behavior required to glean success in recruiting IS "bad apple." Manipulation, husband-bashing, scripture twisting...it's all there and being taught as necessary for success by MK leaders. The problem is not so much with Mary Kay's fruits as it is with Mary Kay's roots.

Here's an example. NSD Stacy James tells her recruiters to only discuss the top three levels of inventory in recruiting interviews. Is NSD Stacy James a "bad apple" for doing this? She's not exactly being told to knock it off by the powers that be. And why should she be told to knock it off? She's whoring for Corporate and doing a swell job of it. MK is indeed a business, as you have said.

Quite frankly, I think Mary Kay's side gets plenty of face time here. I know I quote their leaders quite frequently.

Jonica,
I'll put an E by my words and a J by your words.

J. I finally got a full inventory after about 1 1/2 years. Right then they changed to all the mineral. Yes, that was a little discouraging, because I fianlly got it all, and now I have to start over with all the cosmetics.

E. Your SD did not tell you about the upcoming mineral line. She let you order product that SHE KNEW would become obsolete in a matter of days. SHE KNEW you would have to order more just to stay current.

J. If someone deliberately lies or misleads, then that person (or group of people) are the ones to blame.

J. For those of you who honestly, and truely were lied to, I am very sorry for that. I would strongly suggest you report anyone who outright lied.

J. I am sure their are many out there who feel mislead. I am sure their are some who were entirely mislead & completely taken advantage of. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior, and those recruiters/directors should be reported.

E. At this point, your words are exactly right. You may consider your own words and realize your SD conned you.

J. So, before you overgeneralize and badmouth a company and all the "Kaybots" (seriously....) think about your own contribution to your situation.

E. Jonica, the following lines are your words, they also happen to be things Kaybots say.

1. The business is not "for" every lady.

2. I don't doubt fo one second, there are bad apples, both in corporate and as recruiters/directors. But this isn't "Mary Kay". This is human beings in general and they fall into every profession and every business. They are individuals.

3. But please, don't blame other's for your choice. no one held a gun to your head. be practical, and admit you made a decision that didn't suit you.

4. Now, if I can buy a product I love, make money of my own, and apply so little effort to do so, why wouldn't I be happy? Imagine what I could do if I was more outgoing and tried to do parties and recruit?

E. MK trains it's Consultants to believe these things. If anything goes wrong, it's the Consultant's fault. It does not matter if the Consultant has been lied to or manipulated by her SD.

This is why you can not understand how anyone would trust their SD and let them con them out of their hard earned money.

Your SD has already lied to you and cheated you. I hope you put a stop to her unconscionable behavior.