The Twisted Sisterhood of Mary Kay
Written by Raisinberry
Many years back, I stepped through the doors of my first Mary Kay event, completely uncomfortable by what I saw. I thought it was me, since they appeared to be so close and having so much fun. I must have had “issues”. They were so happy and warm and huggy and supportive. I lived outside their world, and some part of me wanted what they had, while at the same time, I distrusted what I saw.
As a child, I learned not to trust my own instincts. When you grow up in a crazy dysfunctional home, you pick whatever coping skill works for you, and denial and humor were working for me. By the end of the event, I was interested in the ca$h these gals were making, but the huggy stuff still freaked me out. Something just wasn’t right.
For some of us, the Mary Kay environment initially looks strange and kind of juvenile, yet we are curiously drawn to it, and are suspect of it at the same time. Mary Kay looks us straight in the eye and says,”You are safe here! Safer than you have ever been.
You can trust us… more than you could ever trust anyone in your family. You will grow here. More than you were able to grow inside, and you will be loved and supported here. More than anyone ever showed toward you, the entire time you were growing and struggling and feeling alone. You have landed in the safety net of all things good and right and noble, in stark contrast to the life you had, the stress you knew. This is the sisterhood of support. You can trust us.”
In dysfunctional homes, appearances are everything. Nothing is as it seems. Gambling addiction, violence, alcoholism, authoritarian dominance, sexual abuse, mental illness, religious abuse, and more are all a part of the list that characterizes, “dysfunctional”. Does anyone escape this?
And today, psychologists report that 1 out of two families would qualify as living in a “dysfunctional” environment. If you come from a crazy dysfunctional home, you can function really well in Mary Kay. You are used to doing something for approval or attention or to avoid conflict. Since you usually are starved for attention when other family members have problems, anybody who throws you a dog bone gets strong loyalty and support. In Dysfunctional homes, sometimes you have to “raise yourself”, so being a strong “D” personality develops and you are used to getting things done without help. In dysfunction homes, according to The Counseling Center, at the University of Illinois, children “experience “reality shifting” in which what is said contradicts what is actually happening (e.g., a parent may deny something happened that the child actually observed, for example, when a parent describes a disastrous holiday dinner as a “good time”).
In such cases, it is easy to see how a Adult child, with unresolved issues from childhood, could respond to the Mary Kay environment in complete comfort…denying that her finances are tanking while those in authority around her declare how great Mary Kay is and how much money is being made.
Getting involved and participating in Mary Kay slowly woos your guard down. You can begin to get caught up in the hoopla, and goofiness of a business sororiety where your mentors are classy rich women who say they love and support you and can’t wait to see you at the top. You start to believe them. They are not your old life. They are faithful and true. They are women of their word… women of excellence who do the right thing, always, even to their own detriment, for the sake of honor and righteousness.
The only reason you start doubting what they say, is that you start to see a few things that don’t quite square up. As long as you are doing what you are told, there are no indicators that something just isn’t right. But over time, the “pink bubble” begins to crack. Things like, a cross town Director who knows you are in DIQ, encourages her DIQ to recruit your customer. An inactive consultant friend that you know well, suddenly shows up in the newsletter as your Directors recruit, when you know she has no intention of doing the business.
Your recruit is “tops” on the year to date sales leader list when you know she hasn’t held class one! You decide not to attend meeting for whatever reason, and the guilt call comes the next morning. The syrupy sweet Director is asking, “I am so worried…are you ill, because surely, you wouldn’t intentionally miss a meeting?” Those creepy feelings are coming back. You remember well how manipulation and deception sounds. Oh forget it…people are human. Your denial knows how to enter right “on cue”.
‘What do you mean I can not afford to miss it? I really have to be at my husband’s event.”
“Why would our National want to see me?”
“Really ? She has been watching me? She wants to talk to me? Okay…I will make arrangements… somehow.”
At the guest event, you listen and wait and watch until all the photos with the National have been taken, and as you approach and introduce yourself, her brief comments to you make you realize YOU have been taken. A woman who manipulates you to be somewhere so she has “numbers” to impress her nsd, or who believes her nsd will speak and appear as if she really DID want to meet you, is taking a huge chance. She believes in her own twisted way that you will forgive her for the coercion for the sake of the motivational POP you will receive. Directors begin to believe that if they mimic their NSD, and do whatever it takes to “get people there”, all will be worthwhile. People who grow up in dysfunctional homes are very used to lying and manipulation.
They are equally good at denying the impact of that manipulation and lying as well. They prefer to believe in a world they create, rather than the one they are living in. The twisted emotional manipulation that is used, by all those on the Mary Kay career path becomes an all too familiar flashback into childhood. We don’t like it, but we can do it. We can function with it.
Directors lie to themselves and other Directors. NSDs rehearse the lies and scripts we are to tell our people. Everything is supposed to “look good” on the outside, so nobody knows what’s going on in the inside. That’s what positive mental attitude-never be negative behavior produces.
Fostering a culture where truth can not be exposed or expressed is the hallmark of the dysfunctional, twisted family unit. Labeling “negative” situations or events as something to be stuffed inside, denied and ignored, is the power play of the abuser. Calling a deliberate abuse of credit cards, “achievement”, is the kind of reality shifting that is textbook dysfunctional.
What we who are Directors know, that consultants do not, is that Mary Kay is a dysfunctional twisted sisterhood that pretends to be the savior of women. And to the degree that many American households have some kind of operating “dysfunction”, that will determine how comfortable you are within it…and how long you will stay before noticing how twisted it really is.
As time goes on, you discover that your National encouraged a fellow Director to “put in the production” over and over, so that now she is facing bankruptcy-only the National shares that “so and so” didn’t work her business. The National does not want you to see any “failure” on the part of her mentoring. It has to be the fault of the Director. This is twisted.
Your Director tells you to “find a way or make a way” as you face needing 3 more to finish DIQ on the last day. You humiliate yourself begging friends and family and finally make deals to activate them. You kick in 3-200’s plus agreements, and your Director praises you on Monday night in a big celebration. This is twisted.
The company finds out that prominent NIQ’s and Top Directors have a scheme that gets large orders in, and reach large Unit Production goals by less than ethical means. They not only get to receive their “honor” they get to speak before a Seminar full of bright-eyes believers and completely distort the truth. The music plays as they walk off stage and the crowd is asked to give them one more round of applause! This is twisted.
The corporate staff discovers that agreements and orders go in by people who have no knowledge an order is being placed, and they do nothing to alert or change the system, while acting incredulously that such a thing goes on. Why? Because Corporate wants the production. This is twisted.
What is even more twisted is it takes a detoxification process before you begin to REALIZE just how many distortions and lies you have been told and have repeated. You have to be de-toxed from a company that works SO HARD to convince you how righteous it is, all the while lying through its proverbial teeth! You were wooed into a culture than promised to fill your greatest need, and kept you in, by your greatest weakness. Denial.
Those of us who have experienced the path of dysfunction are able to stay in Mary Kay long past all warning buzzers going off. We can pretend. We had to, to cope. And we are completely comfortable with chaos and madness behind the curtain, while we smile and sing and make all kinds of appearances that all is well.
The first step of recovery is admitting you have a problem. Facing the fact that Mary Kay was not your savior and never was, you can begin the detox that will first, expose our use of denial as a coping strategy, and second, speak the truth without denial, about exactly what Mary Kay is:
Mary Kay Cosmetics is a sophisticated and honed, multi-level marketing scheme, which has used recognition and praise to coerce women into pursuing the satisfaction of their deepest needs of stability, security, friendship and appreciation, while denying the financial wreckage that is created in the process. Mary Kay uses manipulation and blameshifting to clear their own company of wrong-doing while employing National Sales Directors and Directors to drive the production orders by which it financially survives.
Mary Kay promotes a culture of secrecy concerning full disclosure, under the guise of being “positive” and avoiding “negative” thinking, which traps women into destructive patterns of financial entanglement and guilt. Further, Mary Kay promotes the use of Spiritual manipulation to create the illusion that Mary Kay Cosmetics can be trusted.
Mary Kay is a sheep is wolves clothing. And ladies… that’s twisted.
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Comments (54)
gotheart
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Raisin ya had me at, “I must have had “issues”. ”
I am actually still smiling.
How long did it take you to write this great article? Dang!
A lot of tears, emotional fortitude, and complicated entangling, went into this work of art.
Just like a Thanksgiving supper.
Hours to fix, minutes to wolf down.
Sincerely.
gotheart
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skeptigal
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This is an outstanding post, Raisinberry; and I think it will be one of the most effective to date in pulling the desperate deniers out of the pink haze. It explains quite effectively how/why some women are more susceptible to the dysfunction of Mary Kay AND how they disengage any critical thought process when confronted with those little red flags that scream “something’s not right here!” To the women who have been duped by this psychologically manipulative cult…. open your eyes, your mind, and your heart. You deserve better.
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Loralie
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I have been with Mary Kay for 19 years. I was pulled into this business with their lies and broken promises. I haven’t left the company because I always believed in loyalty. I have a very large team and I care deeply for them as individuals. That didn’t sit well with my uplines. I refuse to pressure my team to purchase inventory and to become financially in trouble with credit collectors. I have noticed within all these years that the pink has changed. I don’t care for the way the uplines or corporate run things. They claim its our business, well its not. It never was……
Its no longer a secret after I write this. But I have been secretly studying for my International Makeup Artist License. Within the next five to six months I will be opening my own boutique. I will also be opening a direct sales company. I am going to give the pink a run for their money. My consultants will matter to me and what’s best for “their” business. Being abused by the pink like I have well they are in for a huge shock. I have found all natural suppliers and well all I can say is the pink will be shocked with this move I am going to do. They can’t sue me because all of my creations names will be different. There will be no pyramids of downlines. “You will be in charge” Pink look out. I’ve finally had enough. Its sad. Coming from the pink company and listening and reading so many posts from yahoo groups, to facebook, and now this. I know as a future owner what not to do. I can’t put in my real name because I am still with the pink. But Loralie is going to be part of my company name. Look for future posts in the yahoo groups, facebook, and here……
Soon their will be a company that puts the girls and men who work hard FIRST…….
As a Director I finally learned from my mistakes. As I now call the Pink…..Pepto Bismol. Nothing but stomach aches.
Future Owner of an all natural cosmetic, facial, and spa company…
Loralie
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Delane Smith
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Hi! I have been with MK for less than a year. Already, I’ve had my team members stolen out from under me by my director, as well as my client list. To get me to sign up, she said, “You place one $200 order and you’re “active” for 12 months.” That was a bold faced lie. She can text me, email me and leave me voicemails about meetings she wants me at, and phone calls I need to listen in on. But, she can’t text me, email me, or leave me a voicemail to let me know that if I don’t place a $200 order every 3 months, I loose my recruits, AND my client lists. She used to contact my clients and push them, using guilt trips, to try to get them to order. She would sit me at her kitchen table asking me to give her a list and numbers of people I knew that she could call and pressure to buy stuff. She would contact my team members and harass them repeatedly. I asked her to not communicate with them, to allow me to contact my own people (because she was chasing my recruits off). So, she insisted that I had found a bunch of lazy losers and I needed to get some productive team members. But, she didn’t mind stealing them right out from under me. She offered an apology and said she had tried to contact me to let me know, but since I refused to answer her calls, there was nothing more she could do. So, now, if I log in to my page, I have a blank slate, like the day I started. She offered to meet up with me to discuss how “this could’ve happened.” I confronted her on her lies. Then, I said, “Ok, sure! Let’s meet up.” 3 days later, I have yet to receive a reply. So, if you’re looking to give the pink clan a run for their money, I am interested in knowing what I have to do to be part of this. I’m so furious and I’m so tired of the attempts at brainwashing. It is NOT your own business. You are merely a drone that is an extension of their business. I have heard the religious ramp up too. You think, “Well, surely such a religious person could not be so dishonest. Maybe I misunderstood.” But, it doesn’t take long before you lose everything and that’s very easy to understand! She pawns her kids off anywhere she can leave them (4 boys) and admits, “I’m not a kid person. They’re just disgusting!” and that is disgusting to me. When I went to a meeting to be “recognized” for my “amazing month,” I was given a foot cream that I could’ve gotten on my own (for free) anyway. And, my celebration was chock full of “Sure, you did good. But, look how good so and so did! She did REALLY good! Maybe next month, you can be standing by her!” Your accomplishments are only a weapon used against you. I have no intention of ordering anything from them again. I love the microdermabrasion, but I will run myself in the poor house before I spend another cent with a bunch of women that are catty, backstabbing, petty destructors of women’s self esteem. It’s horrible! So, anyway, if you really do start your own company where we can REALLY own our own business, and it will be a jab at the pink, more than you know, I’m interested!
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Lazy Gardens
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Delane – The best place to start a jab at the pink is to click the link about “Returning Inventory” and pack it up and ship it back.
Your director will have to repay any commissions she got from the product you bought, and you ate OUT OF THAT MESS!
Call up your old team and suggest that they do the same.
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Lilly
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My own mother in law talked me into the $3600 inventory package. She claims MK is recession proof. Ha!!!! If that was correct then she wouldn’t have the need to refinance her home multiple times, file for bankruptcy on more than one occasion over the duration of her career, and her bill collectors were hounding me trying to find her for at least 1 year. According to her I’m the negative one but these are facts and Mary Kay women are ignorant and apparently can’t comprehend simple mathematics. Selling the product back is the best thing I could’ve done.
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gotheart
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A correction.
A lot of tears, emotional fortitude, and complicated entangling, went into this work of art.
untangling,
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MLM Radar Detector
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I have a dear friend who is in a psychologically manipulative personal relationship. Consequently my friend has become easy prey for one MLM after another.
The tools wielded against her in her personal life are the same tools wielded so deftly by MLM marketers: habitual rationalizations, reality-avoidance, demands that she take responsibility for failures which are really out of her control, insistence that everything would be wonderful if she’d just do things the right way, and denial of her self-worth outside of her relationship. Frost this bitter pill with “God says…” and she falls for it every time.
For my friend, confronting the psychological manipulation games in MLMs would mean confronting those same manipulation games played in her personal life. It’s too painful for her to contemplate.
Psychologically abused by both MLM marketers and her significant other, this intelligent, passionate, educated woman has come to believe she is a failure in both her personal and her working life. My friend truly thinks that both her personal and business lives are suffering because it’s all her fault, that she didn’t try hard enough, and tomorrow / next time it will all work out right because she is really committed this time.
My friend is desperate for quick success, to prove herself, to help her family, and becomes easy prey for any MLM marketer promising it.
ATTENTION DIRECTORS: This is what you abuse. This is what you profit from. You’re not helping women. You’re merely perpetuating the cycle of abuse for your own personal gain.
I’ve tried convincing my friend that she is in a no-win game. The most I’ve been able to do is convince her to slow down in the MLMs because she has alienated her friends, and her significant other saw that she was spending more money than she “earned.”
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sweetstrawberry
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Wow! The puzzle pieces are falling into place big time! Every time I visit this site, I learn more about the whole MK farce…and myself. Thank you for the wonderful article, Dr. Raisinberry; it’s pure brilliance.
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raisinberry
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Gotheart…you got it alright.
Recovery was hard fought.
I do think the last line was supposed to be Mary Kay is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, tho.
When i look back into my MK history, I can not believe I fell for this and kept going…years went by. Striving, striving, trying again, every day more hustling out and about hunting prey. Everyone was a target. Eye contact meant ASK. Book sell book recruit. Dial for dollars. All the contradictory messages. I just saw where ANOTHER offspring, loaded with inventory trying to save her Unit, just went under. My Senior apparently doesn’t give a rip…this has happened for her at least 20 times (between DIQ wannabees and Offspring Directors).
No? NEXT!!
Ya have to scratch your head and wonder…WHEN does it sink in?
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Mi Ki
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It isn’t a case of it needing to “sink in” with everyone. I think there are lots of directors who *KNOW* full well what they’re doing to others and keep doing it. You won’t hear the slightest peep out of them until the MK steamroller comes after *them*…
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Philip Arlington
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Psychologists are running a scam of their own. They keep broadening their definitions to expand their potential client base. It won’t be long before they claim three out of four homes are dysfunctional, and that probably won’t be the end of it. The best way to reduce the reported number of mentally ill people would be to restrict the number of psychologists. Some people have things very bad, but one of the major problems in our society is that people are indoctrinated to expect perfection and to take the attitude that when life (inevitably) isn’t perfect, someone or something must be to blame.
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Lazy Gardens
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And another subtle concern troll** post from Philip.
Are you saying that Raisenberry was NOT from a dysfunctional family?
Are you saying that Mary Kay doesn’t exploit people who have exploitable personality traits and psychological issues?
Or were you once frightened by a psychologist?
**Concern troll: A person who posts on a blog thread, in the guise of “concern,” to disrupt dialogue or undermine morale. The intent is to derail, stifle, or control the dialogue.”
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ttp
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I’ve been wondering about his angle….
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A
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I am currently with Mary Kay, and very new. I have been relatively “smart” with my decisions thus far and didn’t allow my director to talk me into inventory (my recruiter is very level-headed and no-pressure). After the starter kit and minimum order for the first month, I’m about even with my initial investment.
I already had a pretty good sense for all this information you’re providing, but reading this site has allowed me to have a more well-rounded attitude when it comes to my recruits. Believe it or not, I have two. That’s right, two. One of them is pretty level-headed, like myself, and has a great group of women in her family who genuinely want to purchase products. Good for her.
The other, though, is someone I didn’t know previously and reached out to me more than I did to her. She works two jobs, was held back by the initial starter kit investment, but after ONE solo call with my director, all of a sudden she was ordering an $1800 inventory kit on a new credit card. I was floored.
I feel like I can see into the future of her crashing and burning. I did NOT want her to order that inventory, but I wasn’t part of that call or that decision. She is incredibly needy, and tries to get my permission and approval for things like where she’s going to bank and whether or not she uses sample packets during facials. Plus, my director guilted her into believing her debut was a failure and she needs to have a second one, and my recruit assumed I would run it for her. I told her I wouldn’t, she needs to get her feet wet. She was terrified and ashamed. I told her flat out that if my director told her something to make her feel badly, she needs to ignore whatever she was told.
I’ve repeatedly told her, as well, that this is technically her business and she can make these decisions on her own (the REALLY simple stuff like where to bank and when to use samples). I might come from a f’ed up family and destructive background too, but this girl just seems like a wounded puppy that I found lying in the road. I feel terrible for her. She’s clearly very uncomfortable with public speaking and all types of decision making, and is desperately seeking approval and success. I hate to say it, but she’s worse than I am and is EXACTLY the type of person you describe in this post.
Although I think I was already on this track, from here on out I will make sure to always work my Mary Kay in a smart way, and not encourage anyone to do differently.
Also, I took this on while out of work. The profit was too low and inconsistant for me to not take a full time job, so I start one in the next week or so. My director was clearly a bit put off by this, and sort of expected me to completely commit myself to Mary Kay, even if I wasn’t making any money. Nice attitude. Plus, I definitely noticed her “drop” me for a short period when I refused to carry my local team in planning a large event (my director is not local to us, and wants to travel to our area, but didn’t volunteer any info about what she wanted us to do or plan, or even what the event would be). I managed to get us all the items we need at no cost to us, and all of a sudden I’m on her good side again. Hmmm….
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TRACY
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Working “smart” is not going to give you any different result than for 99% of MK consultants. This “business” is no business at all, and is designed for you to fail Most of the women here were very smart and motivated too, but still lost money. Best case scenario, you might make a little pocket change. So please don’t fool yourself into thinking you will be any different than anyone else here.
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A
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No, no, I don’t mean to imply I’m going to “break” the system or something. I just don’t want to come out at a loss. Your info has helped me to plan ahead and not overly invest (financially or emotionally) in things like the illusive car. I’ve been targeted to attend some sort of seminar in Nov, and I’ve already decided it’s grossly impractical for me to go. I’ll be able to make enough extra money to maybe pay my phone bill each month, and if that bottoms out, then I can just bail without any scars.
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TRACY
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Deflated Pink Bubble
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I hate to break this to you but you will ALWAYS come out with a loss if you’re doing Mary Kay. There is no smart way or right way to do this business. Any path you take will lead to failure and financial ruin. You won’t make enough to pay your phone bill. Truly, you can make more money working the local drive thru at McDonald’s.
Pull up a chair and read awhile.. There is no way to go UP in Mary Kay. You’ll read about the people who lost tens of thousands of dollars trying to do Mary Kay “the right way”. It just isn’t possible. Everything with MK is smoke and mirrors.
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Mi Ki
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Hello A,
I believe that you will extricate yourself from MK successfully and soon. I’m glad that you made it a point early on to notice what wasn’t right and to research other people’s experiences.
Most of the people here have been burnt big-time by the shit-eating factory that is MLM. I hope that your early realization with respect to its manipulation will help you to be an effective witness in the outside world to women who really don’t get what all the fuss is about.
I hope you don’t leave this board, but if you do I want to say Annyeonghi kaseyo–go peacefully
I wouldn’t touch Mary Kay with a hundred-foot pole, and I think you are in a great position now to offer your own experience and misgivings as warning.
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ttp
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A wrote:
“I did NOT want her to order that inventory, but I wasn’t part of that call or that decision.”
And so it goes. The blame shifting has already begun. Do you understand what is happening, A? You didn’t hold a gun to her head to force your recruit to order $1800 but you’re certainly going to accept the commission her order gives you, right?
This is how it’s been since the conception of MK Cosmetics. Blame the sales force for the unethical behaviors, and MKC the corporation can wipe their hands clean of anything dirty.
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A
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“…but you’re certainly going to accept the commission her order gives you, right?”
Hey. You don’t need to be snarky to me just because I was recounting a story. I never said anything about absolving myself of anything. I said she was a light-touch recruit because she was so desperate, and I subsequently wasn’t involved with her inventory purchase (a similar scenario that I read on this very site several hours ago, written by a woman thrown into leadership before giving any skin care classes). My point was that I was shocked she agreed to it, but also that my director had pounced on it when the girl clearly let us know that personal cash flow was an issue for her.
Don’t assume things about me when I’m trying to come here and tell you what I’ve seen thus far. And in case you missed it, the entire point of my comment was to thank the writers here of being so candid.
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A
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I also (in case you missed it) said I felt terrible. How you pegged me for a bot so quickly, I’m unsure.
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ttp
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A, it wasn’t my intention to be snarky. I meant to point out that we are all pawns in the manipulation from day 1, while absolving ourselves of any responsibility. It’s the Mary Kay way. For example, NSD’s on down twist scripture to “pull production,” yet MK the company says they’re independent, it’s not us.
I get it, A. I really do. Your director hustled that order out of your recruit. It’s her job to get those orders in to make her quotas, and if she can get you on the bandwagon too, she stands to reap more benefit.
An exerpt from Raisinberry’s piece: “What is even more twisted is it takes a detoxification process before you begin to REALIZE just how many distortions and lies you have been told and have repeated.”
The distortions and lies are subtle, and your comment essentially saying, “I didn’t make her place that order my director did,” is an example of the blame shifting and convoluted thinking. It’s a variation of the gun to your head phrase we hear repeatedly.
What I want to say to you A, is it’s impossible to survive for long in this corrupt company. Get out before you drop your ethics at the door to stay in the game.
Read some more, especially the Director stories. They were far more involved than I and more eloquent!
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A
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Look, you can argue semantics all day long, I don’t care. But I think you should know that it is startling and offputting that you take a newcomer’s words and twist them to mean something they don’t mean. I’ve been doing this for barely 3 months and am already planning an escape route, and you accuse me of “blameshifting” when I’m really just stating a fact. I wasn’t sitting silently on the phone while my director pitched this inventory to a girl who I know had no money. I LITERALLY wasn’t a part of that conversation, and was alerted of the outcome after it had happened, and was horrified. That’s a statement of fact.
You seem to be shifting blame onto me because you, clearly, have a lot of negative experiences behind you and want desperately to scare me out now. I’m getting out, but I’m exiting correctly so I don’t lose anything. There is a way, I’ve already read about it on this site. So don’t try to tell me it’s impossible. Plus, I can’t understand how you keep glazing over the fact that I’ve already stated multiple times that the practices in team management bother and upset me. How am I “blameshifting” when I admit that I don’t want to be a part of this?
Don’t misconstrue this as defense of MK or my director, I’m defending myself. I don’t think it’s wise or respectful to jump down a new site visitor’s throat for something she never did. It makes you all seem bitter and untrustworthy. I told you my experiences, and instead of saying, “You’re already apart a the machine, you weak-minded lying hussy,” you could instead just say, “You’re witnessing the deceptive practices, don’t start doing them yourself.” Advice vs. accusations. See how that works?
Thanks for your rough feedback, and I’ll continue to read the site… but I don’t think I’ll be participating in comments here anymore. You all seem very difficult to communicate with.
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NeverWasPink
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Alright, let’s all just get a grip here (myself included
Whether a newcomer realizes it or not,the attitude of “well, thank you all for your stories, now I know how to run a GOOD business” is condescending and patronizing. It would be like dating a guy, meeting his old girlfriend, and she telling you stories of bullying and rage (and to be honest with yourself, you see red flags), yet then you turn, pat her on the head, and say “well thank you, now I know how to act to avoid those things” and walk into the sunset.
And no, that analogy is NOT too extreme for the abuse and destruction MLM has caused people
so, best of luck, and it doesn’t really matter if you post here or not, but I hope you do.. just keep reading, whatever you do
And we’ll celebrate with ya the day you jump out of the big pink airplane with your PT parachute and see that it’s really just a flaming pile of wreckage hurtling to the ground, and you’ll be soooo glad you left!!
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raisinberry
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ttp, great insights. “A”…believe me we do understand what you are saying and there is no “snarky” intended. The interdependence of the women is HOW they create this layer of loyalty.
Maybe you don’t get this. If you want to get on target for your car, lets say, and you have 3 recruits, and your Director calls you and says Sally Ann just did a “Ruby Star”…you will tend to be so happy you have 2400.00 toward production before you will ever realize that Sally Ann has no business ordering 4800.00 retail plus 600, bonus of product. Now you’ll think that it’s none of your business (as we all did)…But what happens is your SD will say, Gee, if your other recruits just did their 600′s, you’d have 4200 in, and with just a 300 on your part-and one more recruit, YOU’D BE ON TARGET for your car!!!
And so it begins. And in the name of “helping” them get product, you are benefited, and must look the other way for the sake of getting production, because IT NEVER ENDS. Each new month we start over.
And so you also are grateful to your Director for magically pulling production to make this happen for you. That’s the interdependence. She needs you-YOU need her…and she gets the job done if you just find the recruits.
So I guess you can be blind-sided by the products and how great they are, but in order to sell them, you have to recognize that lots and lots of women get financially abused and manipulated in order for this scam to carry on…
So how good are they really?
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A
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Again, it is very daunting that you would decide to interact with a new site user via a “You don’t get it” lecture, rather than actual conversation. I never said I was striving for a car, or that I would “help” people buy inventory. I don’t know where you’re getting all this from, but it doesn’t apply to me.
I feel like I’m getting this abrasive feedback just because I’m an active consultant. You’re trying to make me feel additional guilt for things 1) I’m not involved with, like pumping up for the car, and 2) that happened to my recruit that I already said I feel terrible about. I never defended the company, my director or the practices. Ever. I said it made me feel bad, and you’re trying to make me feel worse.
As I already said to Tracy above, I have an exit strategy, just not a fast one. I inherited inventory from someone else for pennies, so I’m liquidating slowly so my director doesn’t catch on and (if necessary) can sell my kit back any time before June of next year. Easy.
The things you’re warning me about I already knew, and wasn’t planning on sacrificing my money or my pride for. Without even knowing what her expenses are, I can already work out the math and assume my director makes next to nothing with all the gift she sends out to us. I understand it’s not worth it and is nothing but exploitation of weakness and the need to succeed.
As I, also, stated above, I appreciate the posts here (I initially commented to praise you guys, remember?) but don’t think I will be participating in comments. It is too accusational and angry.
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TRACY
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No, you’re getting abrasive feedback because your first comment came off as “I’m working MK SMART… not like you dummies. Thanks for screwing up so I don’t have to.” Whether you meant to come off like that or not, you did.
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A
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You are all exceptionally gifted at reading things that aren’t there. I was praising your posts for giving me proper information so I don’t make mistakes. Essentially, it IS a “thank you for the info about your screw ups so I can avoid them and get out clean,” and if that makes you angry… then I have no idea who you have this site up for.
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TRACY
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I’m not angry. I was just telling you how your original comment came across, which is likely why you got some very pointed responses. You said in your original comment: “I already had a pretty good sense for all this information you’re providing,…”
So you already knew what you needed to, and you’re going to proceed with Mary Kay. We wish you luck, and I agree that you probably don’t need this site.
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A
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I don’t know why I’m attempting to explain this to you for the fourth or fifth time, but I’ve already said I’m planning an exit but I do not want it to be abrupt so that I set myself up for a loss. Not that I’m “going to proceed” with MK. Are you all illiterate?
My god, you all strike me as so argumentative that even if I said “I’m mailing it all back tomorrow!” that wouldn’t be good enough for you. I thought the whole idea of your site was to offer info so others could avoid the pitfalls as you did. At face value, it seemed to be a safe place for people to share their stories and learn. It’s not. I would think you’d be happy with anyone who came here and said your content helped shape their decisions. But you’re not. You’re catty and chastising. Bye.
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TRACY
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“Bye” is correct, because I’m not going to continue to let you insult us. You will not be commenting here anymore. You indeed said in your first post that you were proceeding with MK. Now you’re changing your story to say you’re exiting. Either way, you are proceeding in some manner with MK, so it appears that I am quite literate indeed.
Nonetheless, my previous comment was simply an attempt to explain to you why some of the responses you have gotten seemed a little harsh. You obviously don’t need any help from anyone here.
Goodbye.
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Lazy Gardens
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I’ve already said I’m planning an exit but I do not want it to be abrupt so that I set myself up for a loss
More people lose money trying to avoid a loss than they do if they fold their cards and walk away.
Have you calculated the time and effort you will spend trying to break even?
Even if you only value your time at minimum wage, your most cost-effective route out is to bail immediately and use the money you have locked up in inventory for other purposes.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AikkeC94mta4dE5PMXZJSWRtcGFfNVdvYlBVRk5yS3c&hl=en_US#gid=3 is a spreadsheet for calculating your running balance.
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Briansmama
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A -
“It doesn’t apply to me” – i think what these wonderful ladies are trying to say is “it will”. There is no “right way” to do it – and with only a few months in, you just simply can’t have the experience to know what you are in the middle of. The folks here do.
Have you done anything to try to correct the situation with your recruit? Call her up and tell her that she made a terrible mistake going into debt for her inventory and advise her to return it asap and pay off the credit card? Call your SD and tell her you don’t want her doing this with any of your recruits? (not that I think it would change her behavior, but it still would let you make your feelings known).
Stating that the practices bother you is easy. Doing something about it is hard. But, as much as I hate to admit it, my mother was right when she told me that actions speak louder than words.
I see you say that you are working on getting out, but I don’t know what that means after only a few months in.
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TRACY
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VERY good comment!
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ttp
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Agree wholeheartedly!
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A
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I believe we’re just having two different conversations. You’re reacting to me like I’m defending my choice to remain a consultant, and I’m coming here to get info to shape my strategy for the next several months as I begin a new day job and slowly leave MK. Therefore, we’re not going to see eye-to-eye because we’re talking about two different things. I’m shocked with the abrasiveness of these comments, especially when I have said more than once that I’m figuring to leave. Now you’re questioning my ethics by asking if I’ve told off my director and called my recruit to tell her to sell back right this very second? I’ll do that after I finish my own journey, thank you, for several reasons that I believe will save everyone involved a lot of money and stress. Ex. If I tear down my recruit’s current “dream,” she’ll just run to our director who will then puff her up again and she’ll order more product because she’s so weak. She needs time to leave, the same as me. She has 12 months to sell back.
Yesterday, my impression of this site was a group of women who just wanted to be honest. Now, it’s the stereotypical “bitter & angry” group. Good luck, I guess. I think I have all the info I need.
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TRACY
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You do realize that your story has been changing, don’t you? You started off by telling us you’re very smart about MK and you’re going to make sure you don’t lose money like the dummies here did. And that has morphed into you’re quitting MK and you don’t understand why anyone is asking questions or giving suggestions.
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gotheart
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“After the starter kit and minimum order for the first month, I’m about even with my initial investment.”
Ya think so eh? let me show ya something.
You are in the web of deception and you are spreading it to others already. Let me explain.
The mkc has used you to make huge profit on your kit and your 200. order.
The kits are made in China.
They barely cost mkc a cent to make. So of the 100. you gave them 99. their profit.
YOU HAVE BEE TAKEN.
They tout that you make 100% profit for your 200. purchase. BUT YA HAVE TO SELL IT FIRST!
What you purchase for 200. you sell of 400.
However you are trained to keep 40% of your 200. of your profit to pay for your business expenses that you will use to purchase mk supplies that they provided.
They make 99% profit off of any business supplies they sell you. Ya still with me?
All of their business expenses are made in China.
Oh and of course your 60% of your 200. profit goes back into inventory.
Not to mention the time you have wasted investing in a company that uses you as their advertisement to keep their plague to infect others spreading. As you have experienced with your person who reached out to you, you have infected her.
Ya got all of this.
You are part of the problem.
YOU are perpetuating a lie to women.
You are living proof of being taken without knowing it.
Get out
FACT:
Both of my sons are in outsourcing for companies. This is where I have gotten my information.
Sincerely.
gotheart
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MLM Radar Detector
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“After the starter kit and minimum order for the first month, I’m about even with my initial investment.”
How does she figure out she broke even? Because she got “free product” in her starter kit then turned around and spent that much again on her initial order?
Clue #1: That $410 in product you got for $100? That’s $410 RETAIL, aka $205 WHOLESALE.
Clue #2: Who says it’s worth $410 or $205 anyway? That’s MK’s “suggested price” which doesn’t mean anything.
Clue #3: If you REALLY want to find out what that product is REALLY worth, price-check it on ebay. I guarantee it’s worth less than $205.
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enorth
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For someone who told us (more than once) that she is level-headed, “A” sure went off the deep end quickly.
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ttp
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Gotheart wrote: “You are in the web of deception and you are spreading it to others already. Let me explain. The mkc has used you …..”
Thank you Gotheart. This was the only point I was trying to make to her. The slippery slope begins with the Starter Kit, and we know the rest. The subtle manipulation is there from the onset.
On some level we were aware of the incongruency but aren’t able to articulate exactly what isn’t right. Most of us have been through it, including that uncomfortable moment when we realize that by not putting a stop to the madness, we become part of the problem.
I just wasn’t able to convey that I’m on her side. Combative, ugly, and hurtful words are so detrimental….It’s hard defogging. The lashing out is to be expected, I guess, yet still disappointing.
Another thought-provoking and stellar Raisinberry piece. Mary Kay’s signature color should be gray. Many shades of gray.
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I Have Integrity
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50 Shades of Gray LOL
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raisinberry
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Yea, when I read my response to her, I don’t see an attack at all…just a scenario. But people look through their own lens.
I think there is a bit of guilt there too…She said nothing when her recruit got nailed for inventory. She wants to “plan” the exit…She wants to make sure she doesn’t rain on her dream-ick on her wow. (There is no wow. The sooner it is faced, and admitted, the sooner the recovery)
Does any of that make sense? ” I see I got you in to a destructive financial cult, but I am going to slowly extricate myself, because I built you up on this and and if I leave quickly I will look like________.”
I actually think Mary Kay is a barometer of the heart. You really find out who you are and what you’ll tolerate, and rationalize, for the sake of ;
prestige, praise, achievement, wealth, friendship, acceptance, etc.
We always tend to get angry when we’re shamed.
If you find out this minute that you just talked a friend into chugging drain cleaner, you don’t wait to see if she likes the taste before screaming for her to stop!!
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ttp
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Yeah, geeze, I have to work on my approach.
I like what you say about a barometer of the heart. Mary Kay is a ral litmus test of who we are as people. Sometimes what we see in the mirror isn’t pretty. There’s so much more going on with one’s involvement with Mary Kay than bleeding money.
I have trouble calmly explaining what is truly going on when my insides are screaming, “No! Stop! Get out now and help your recruits out now! We know what inevitably will happen. Just like chugging the drain cleaner.
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NeverWasPink
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No, ttp, you were fine.. people will always read into things how they want to deep down. We are a caring community who do not manipulate, withhold information, lie, or deceive. We just have no reason to.. think of how many we impact powerfully by saying it the way it needs to be said!!
Truthfully, in life I find that when something seems to feel like a personal attack, it’s because deep down you have some unresolved issue (guilt, fear, etc) around that particular topic. At least, for me it works that way!
The funny thing is knowing she can read but not comment.. hope these amazing articles reach the right people!!
Well written Raisinberry, by the way
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raisinberry
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Thanx Never. And I agree with your feeling that unresolved issues fuel these kinds of assumptions.
Hey I have to admit..I wanted to get out and get a year past, because I knew I would get a pay back commission hit on every member I urged to get out. Its tough…cause you don’t have enough money to pay bills already! So for me-that instance showed me how I really didn’t want to scream fuss and fight to drag them all free of the pink predator. Turns out I couldn’t have anyway. My Diq’s who i warned, ignored my advice, cause I had gone “negative”. That’s all the SSD has to do…tell some tale of your incompetence, and she wins. Kinda like what they have done to Allison. You go from superstar to dirtbag in a New York Minute in Mary Kay if you even try to throw a high beam on corruption.
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Tracy
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You nailed it!!!
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Claudia
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I really wish I could’ve read this post before joining MK! Now i’m stuck with a starter kit, owe 3 mascaras to 3 ppl from a challenge I never finished & $100 short of my deposit
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MLM Radar Detector
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Hi Claudia, welcome to the fog-free fresh air.
I started to say you can go onto CraigsList or eBay and you can get those mascaras cheap. Then I thought, “what am I saying?”
If you really don’t need to continue a relationship with your mascara “creditors” then just tell them sorry – too bad – I’m out of MK – I won’t be placing inventory orders and no, DO NOT order them “for me” and expect me to pay you.
Should you really feel obligated to make good on that mascara challenge, offer them something of eqivalent value out of your starter kit. Every IBC needs more sample size products – they can have yours. But whatever you choose, do NOT go spending any more money on MK product.
You have absolutely no reason to feel guilty for backing out of a game that you had no chance to win in the first place.
You might even be able to use CraigsList or eBay to sell or swap your unwanted starter kit contents. I see MK starter kits on eBay all the time.
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R
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Hi I want advice from you ladies, and I mean really blunt advice. My gf has put 200 bucks down on MK, and has hosted a couple of parties. I just told her about what I am reading on here, and she said she will not be ordering anything else. She says she just likes playing with the makeup, and isn’t interested in getting ahead or a car or whatnot. I told her that I know that her sponsor, or whatever the lady is called that dropped off her kit, is terribly fake,and that I love her too much to let anyone take advantage of her. I’m really afraid that she may order another 200 supply in three months,a nd I want to do whatever I can to prevent it. Also, what is this about them “ordering for you” and expecting you to pay them for it? Did my gf give them her credit card info when she signed up? PLEASE inform me on all of the particulars, so I can properly load up my guns on this. Also, thank you for any help.
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MLM Radar Detector
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The “order for you” reference was regarding a woman who lost a “mascara challenge.” She would be unable to pay her so-called debt because she was getting out of MK and wouldn’t be able to place an order to purchase the merchandise she believed she owed. She felt guilty about that.
I advised her to not agree to let them “help” her pay it off by treating the so-called debt as an order they would place and she would buy. The challenge was a cheat anyway; there was virtually no way for her to win. But if she really felt obligated to make good on the challenge debt she could offer them something else she already had on hand.
Regarding your GF: keep reading through this website and see if you find anything which connects with her motivators. Does she want attention or extra money, is she trying to prove herself, is she an ever-so-helpful person desperate to please, or is she naive regarding taxes and business math? When you find a match to her needs, show the article to her.
Bottom line, though: She’s an adult, and you can’t save her from herself. Warning her is fine, but she’s an adult, which means she has to depend on herself instead of you to make the right choices for her.
You can warn her that her Sales Director will turn the pressure up to cajole her into placing an inventory order. You can tell her that MK doesn’t really track sales, and women praised for “selling” are actually being praised for purchasing inventory which they may never sell. But if she really wants to place another order, there is little you can do except aks her why.
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4:8 girl
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“You have to be de-toxed from a company that works SO HARD to convince you how righteous it is, all the while lying through its proverbial teeth!”. Fabulous & insightful article Raisinberry! De-tox is the perfect word. After 10+ years & almost going thru DIQ, I see the light! I’ve been battling whether or not to return inventory from the past year, but I know it must be done in order to have both peace & closure. The holdback has been the “you can never re-join, what if your circumstances change?” thinking. Which, of course, we all know is so not true! If it never flew off my shelf for the past 10 years, it doesn’t make any sense now to think it would. And 90% buyback is alot better than hoping to move it at 50% off! Thank you for helping us see more clearly.
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