My Wife Makes Over $5,000 Per Month With Mary Kay!

Shelby Sutton Conklin, Mary Kay Sales Director

UPDATE: From July 1, 2011 through January 31, 2012 (7 months), Shelby has ordered less than $11,838 retail ($5,919 wholesale) from Mary Kay. That means her sales per month are less than $1,700 retail, nowhere near what she’d need to sell to make the $5,000 per month her husband claims she makes. For the first half of January, Shelby’s unit production was $1,364, well below what she’d need to be on pace for $4,500 production for the month.

UDPATE #2: Shelby’s unit production in January 2012 was $2,483. This equals a commission check of about $500, which is well below Eric’s claim that Shelby makes $5,000 per month with Mary Kay.

Since Pink Truth came on the scene in 2006, we have had a number of “Mary Kay Husbands” visit the site and tell us how wrong we are.  Their wives are “successful” in Mary Kay, and we are liars, losers, bitter, spiteful, and more.

Last week, we were paid a visit by Eric Conklin, the husband of Mary Kay sales director Shelby Sutton Conklin. Shelby Conklin is a Sales Director in the Debi Moore area, and her senior director is Taylor Moore Fehring. These women are going to be so proud of how Eric showed us what a great opportunity Mary Kay is!!!!

Eric had a lot of things to say to us and about us. Below are the pertinent excerpts of his writings, poor grammar and profanities included:

This website is basically dedicated to bashing Mary Kay, but it seems that a lot of the bashing comes from information based on hearsay, a bad personal experience with a consultant or director or with all due respect, ignorance.
My wife worked in restaurant management for years and often put in almost 70 hours a week. She was introduced to Mary Kay when her director and her director’s mom (who is a national director) came into the restaurant my wife managed. This was in April 2011 and within 6 months and 6-7 hours a week on the little free time she had she managed to earn her first free car (a 2012 Chevy Malibu) and become an independent sales director.

About 2 weeks ago she was able to quit her job and focus on Mary Kay full time. She jumped in head first, bought the largest inventory ($3600) and decided right away that this is what she wanted to do……and it was a way out of the restaurant biz where she was underpaid, underappreciated and pissed off all the time.

I still cringe when she puts in an order over $100 but after seeing the potential with the company I am a bit more comfortable with it. Unfortunately there are consultants and directors out there that lie to people, sucker them into buying a massive inventory and then dropping them immediately afterwards just to help themselves get ahead and earn a little more commission for the month. Let me tell everyone right now that these types of folks are the minority in the company and are few and far between…..but yes they are out there just as they are in every other company or business.

And:

My wife got a check from the company for $500 just for making director and a $350 DB purse.

Her highest commission to date was $3200 for the month of November. She only had about $6000 in production, which was roughly $840 based on the 13% (including her own purchases), but with all of the other bonuses (teambuilding, unit volume, directors challenge etc) she earned an additional $2360….not counting what she sold. As far as sales…..her record (this is not common by no means) was $4600 in 48 hours (one large single order was over $3800 for the buyers clients).

And:

Finally,just for the record, everything I’ve stated here is the truth, I put my life on it and I pride myself in being honest and calling it like I see it. I’ve been to several events with my wife and have met several national directors and a few corporate executives at these events and have honestly learned a lot about the company.

Anyone that calls me a liar is full of **** and is a liar themselves, however there may be some on here that truly know about the business more than I do…..but if that is the case then I can’t understand why you would bash the company if you understand it and have seen how they truly operate. In a nutshell, its a multi-billion dollar company that instead of selling stock and having shareholders, they give everything back directly to those who perform well for the company….i.e. earn it.

And:

Also, my intention is not to offend or persuade….only to inform based on my personal experience as the husband of a MK Director. My wife’s director, as well as her national director have become family friends and due to my wife’s motivation and involvement with the company we have been exposed to much more of the “big picture” than some people who remain consultants for years. Please don’t take anything I’ve stated the wrong way, I’m very blunt and direct and have to refrain from swearing the best I can most of the time.

 

And:

I’m sure that I can clear up a lot of confusion or misinformation that is out there….probably not all, but at least some. The only reason my wife was initially successful and able to build her MK foundation as well as get to the point where she is now self employed, was her work location. She built it from co-workers, employees, friends, family and others who were interested…..this is basically where everyone starts and each person’s experience will be different depending on a multitude of factors.

She didn’t lie, cheat, misinform, swindle or drug anyone. No one she has recruited has shared her success, but there are some that recognize the possibilities and are trying, most have all but dropped it completely. Out of 45 something recruits there are about 10-12 trying to do something with it. Many are in college and others are working full time but truly wish to break away from their current jobs. Its not for everyone….just like going to law school, or joining the military and being shipped off to a s***hole in the desert is not for everyone.

Just like everything else in life, some will succeed greatly, some will achieve mediocre success, some will fail only to succeed at something else and then some will continually fail at everything they ever do. Reading through some of the comments on here, I see information being posted that is not true and based on who knows what. There seem to be tidbits of fact mixed with a large portion of opinion.

If anyone chooses to respond, please just let me know how you were contacted about the Mary Kay thing, how long you were with it, how much you put into it (time, not money), and what you were told about it. Don’t be put off by the fact that I’m a dude…..I actually found this site searching for info about MK when my wife initially got into it. Considering where my interest lie and the types of things I’m into, I’m surprised at myself for posting so much stuff on a site such as this, but I’m a very rational, logical, and down to earth person and I hate to see BS being spread anywhere, however, if no one wants factual information, and bashing certain things lets everyone vent and feel better, then I’m sure my posts and comments will be deleted and everyone can get back to telling each other a bunch of lies and/or misinformation. No offense.

Pink Truth members were obviously very lucky that Eric Conklin came here to school us on Mary Kay. I was even luckier. When I contacted him privately via email, he came back with plenty of insults and profanities to make me see how smart, rational, and informed he is! Eric’s many missives to me included:

 Just what I expected.  Complete ignorance.  I have no idea what the same tired lines are because I don’t sell the shit and I’ve never heard any of these lines of which you speak.  I see my post is deleted…also as I expected.  Thats what I get for browsing website blogs, finding overflowing spouts of BS, trying to throw in some facts amongst garbage and calling it like I see it.  Due to my own initial skepticism about the company, I stumbled upon pinktruth trying to find information….thankfully your blindly ignorant response solidifies my belief in the legitimacy and credibility of the company.

And:

Im not pro Mary Kay and trying to promote or sell anything.  I could give a shit less if people buy it or burn it.  My wife does it, is becoming very successful with it and shares it to allow others to become successful as well…..if they choose to do so…….SO…I support her.  The earnings are WAY BEYOND minimum wage, but only if you get off your ass and build the business.

Just as I had suspected….pinktruth is a blog completely loaded with bullshit from people that have no idea what they are talking about….you included.  It is obvious that you are totally ignorant as to how the company operates and at some point you got royally screwed over by a consultant or director that wanted nothing more than to take advantage of you.  Tell me I’m clueless and don’t know what I’m talking about….?…

WE HAVE THE GODAMN CAR IN OUR DRIVEWAY…….and come on….you really try to argue with facts…I can put you in contact with a number of people that can set you straight…I can show printed information…but hey, if you believe what you believe, there is no making you unstupid.

And:

God save YOUR soul for spreading lies and devoting your life to a bullshit website blog where a bunch of disgruntled women have nothing better to do than bitch and lie about something they don’t understand.  If you don’t like Mary Kay, thats fine, don’t like it.  I don’t like a lot of things.  But I don’t start a website to bash and spread misinformation.  Unfortunately my curiousity has caused me to lose a few hours of my life that I’ll never get back….but any skepticism and suspicion I have ever had about Mary Kay is now null and void due to your over the top and silly uneducated reply…..and for that I thank you.

And:

I had no idea that my wife would be able to cover our $5000 a month mortgage and living expenses, could do so with no help from me, all from earning minimum wage….we have somehow been deceiving ourselves as well as our mortgage company and other creditors.  I have been deceived.  I would love for you to remove the pink curtain and expose the truth behind the lies…..if you were not becoming SPAM……..you are now SPAM.  LOL @ yourself and your circle of pinktruth blog friends for not being creative enough to develop half way convincing lies that would be able to withstand the smallest amount scutiny and information searching.

And:

I’m very curious to know what you consider my wife’s numbers to be.  Tell me my wife’s name….it shouldn’t be hard to find….I truly doubt that you have put any effort into finding information for your replies and if you have you have entirely too much time on your hands and need to get a life.  Tell me about the company…..tell me how commission breaks down….what was your involvement with the company…..tell me anything that could possibly validate your credibility and show that you actually know something besides blabbing the same rhetorical anti mary kay bullshit.

As I said….you have no point to prove.  If you are convinced that Mary Kay sales directors make minimum wage and that the earth is flat, then that is what you believe.  I know what my wife’s numbers are and I’m not going to throw a random number out there just to do so.  Tell me any sort of accurate information…..I will apologize…then shut the fuck up.  It is entirely impossible for you to be accurate because you have no clue what her sales are…you have no access to her MK accounts and she has not been successful enough to have her numbers posted in any MK magazines.  Where in hell do you come up with this stuff??  If you choose to respond…please do so with some substance.  Each response has been the same only worded a little differently.

I have no respect for your intelligence, or lack thereof and no respect for any jibberish that you post…..please prove me wrong.  I’m very open minded and if you can prove me wrong I will accept it….although it may prove incredibly difficult because you would have to prove that everything I’ve seen for myself and experienced is all a sham.

You stand strongly behind your convictions…..so there must be some truth or facts for you to do so….. As I said, I’m open to any correct information you bring up so if you’re going to argue or debate, get your shit together.  Throw something out there to stop me cold in my tracks and shut me up.

And:

What’s her area?  If you were affilitated with the company then obviously you would know that certain things will be posted in her area.  Do you still get the magazines?  Maintain your status to keep an in touch account?  Her personal sales are not posted as I would believe you are aware…maybe wholesale production…but not sales…and it will be nice when commission alone is over $5000 which will be in the very near future.

I’m thankful she got away from the corporate bullshit world and she can be happy in her career and I in mine.  As for commission…commission alone ranges from $1200 to $3400 a month with only 6-7 hours a week….  I’m sorry that you were so unsuccessful with the company and due to that lack of success, you now bash and spread lies.  Just like I said before…tidbits of facts mixed in with tons of opinion.  Are you a former director…national…or a consultant?  What level of success did you achieve with the company?

And:

You know what…fuck this.  This is a complete waste of time.  I simply went on the website to share my perspective as the husband of woman involved with Mary Kay.  Do I know everything about the company…hell no…..Do I know a lot more than many of those that actually sell it….absolutely.  We’ve been able to have an up close and personal look and attend a lot of different functions.

Regardless of what lies and misinformation you post on your site, there are obviously many, many women who are incredibly successful and enjoy what the company has to offer.  I see it for what it is, not what I think it is.  If my wife gets fucked over by the company then I’ll have a different opinion of it but that still won’t change the opportunities that are available and what they give to their people.  I’m not an expert on Mary Kay and I don’t give 2 shits about make up, cosmetics and skin care.

I do however enjoy to argue, and you never stated anythng that would give you a leg to stand on…..only your opinion.  You get information about the company and basically ramble on about how the consultants and directors are evil and set on screwing people over.  Based on what I’VE seen, this couldn’t be farther from the truth.  Your experiences are obviously much different.  I don’t know if you got hooked up with the wrong people, misled, left hanging with a huge inventory or what but something about the company really has you pissed to actually run a website about the evils of Mary Kay….but here’s the thing…it doesn’t fucking matter.

You can put out whatever info you want and nothing is going to change.  If thats how you want to spend your spare time then so be it.  All I can say, is my wife has been and is becoming more successful with it.  It has proven to be a positive factor thus far.  Its not all about money….she doesn’t lie or con anybody.  If people say no then she thanks them and walks away.  If people want to sign but not purchase an inventory, she doesn’t badger them.  This is how she was trained by her director and how she is as a person.  Unfortunatley I let myself get sucked into your narrow minded world and wasted even more time, although I have been thoroughly amused during the process.  You have your opinion, so keep it, but trying to tell me that what goes on in our lives is a facade to something sinister in Mary Kay is absurd.  Go back to blogging on pinktruth and all of you unhappy folks can sit around and continue to spread rumors and opinions based on nothing.

After all of that I thought I ought to set the record straight on Shelby Conklin and what she is or is not earning in Mary Kay. Eric said that she makes over $5,000 per month with Mary Kay, that her highest production in one month was $6,000, and that her commission checks range from$1,200 to $3,400 per month. Does she really make $5,000 per month? NO. The numbers he cites are impossible.

It is simple to prove Eric is lying. He says that Shelby’s highest unit production was $6,000 in one month.  That’s going to give her a commission check of about $1,800, including bonuses.  At the very most, her check might be $2,200 if she has a lot of personal recruits ordering. This doesn’t equal the $3,200 of $3,400 per month he claims was Shelby’s highest commission check.

A commission check of $3,200 to $3,400 would only be possible if the unit had over $10,000 wholesale production in a month and most of those ordering were Shelby’s personal recruits. But Eric says her highest production was $6,000, making a $3,200 to $3,400 commission check impossible.

Shelby’s normal production is likely less that $4,500 per month. She is a “Grand Achiever,” which requires $4,500 production per month to avoid a co-pay. Eric says only 10-12 women in the unit are working. I doubt Shelby is even making the $4,500 production every month. More likely, she is hitting the minimum production of $4,000 (required to stay a sales director) one month, and then missing it the next month. Eric says the low end of Shelby’s commission checks is at $1,200. This would suggest production of $4,500 per month. I suspect he has inflated that lower end of the commission checks.

Even supposing that we believe that Shelby’s monthly production ranges from $4,500 to $6,000, and that her commission checks range from $1,200 to $3,400, she is still not making the $5,000 per month that Eric claims.

How do I know? Simple math. In order for Shelby to have a net profit of $5,000 per month available to pay family expenses, she’d have to be selling  $4,000 to $9,500 per month at full retail value. AND… she’d have to have no unit expenses, and be able to use her entire commission check for family expenses.

That means Shelby has to consistently sell $1,000 to $2,375 retail per week, at full price, every single week.  This is not happening. I know this is not happening because “$1,000 weeks” are the exception in Mary Kay. They are celebrated because they rarely  happen.  And they certainly don’t happen every week. I also know that Shelby is not selling that much because she’d be celebrated by her area on her way to being Queen of Sales at the next seminar. It’s simply not happening.

Further, if Shelby was selling $1,000 to $2,375 each week, she would need to order products from Mary Kay to replenish what she sold. She’ be ordering anywhere from $2,000 to $4,750 wholesale per month, which would be reflected in her unit production and bump up her commission checks.

It’s obvious that Eric was lying about his wife’s income. I completely understand a husband wanting to support his wife’s venture. I don’t like the lying, however. I hate that women (and husbands0 in Mary Kay are so prone to inflating the earnings. Yes, there are women who will be sucked in when they hear that Shelby is “earning $5,000 per month,” having no idea that this is an absolute lie. It’s not even close to the truth.

Mary Kay is marketed with repeated lies, and Eric is just one example.

As for the “many many” women who are “incredibly successful” in Mary Kay…. In the United States there are about 300 to 500 women making “executive” income in Mary Kay.  There are a couple thousand making middle management income. There are another 5,000 to 8,000 making minimum wage.  Almost everyone else is losing money. This is out of 600,000 to  700,000 consultants in the United States. So the “many many” women being “incredibly successful” are about 400 out of 600,000 are 0.06% (that’s six one-hundredths of one percent). Wow. Impressive.

188 Comments

    1. Crystal Holloway

      I have a question what were your responses Tracy? You show us his but none of yours. You talk about the Terrible way he responded but no one talks about the way you did? Lets be fair, whether you are in or out, love or hate MK the fact is this is a pretty one sided article. I came upon the pinktruth on accident and I would like to see your responses as well

      1. TRACY

        Hi Crystal – I don’t believe for one second that you found Pink Truth by accident. Thank you for researching and for reading.

        My emails to Eric were very short, and factually based. For every short email I sent him, I received two lengthy, abusive, vulgar responses from Eric. The substance of my emails was clear: Eric and his wife are lying about her income. I know it because I saw her numbers. And I would prove it on Pink Truth.

      2. johnny depp fan

        Ok, where do I start?

        What bothers me most about this article is the fact that ” Eric ” mentioned his wife earning so much money from a certain company, in this case, Mary Kay, ( whoever the hell that is ).

        However, he did not mention anything about her earning her income from home, ( yes, I KNOW he probably meant at the company ), but I was wondering . . . . after all, there are companies that will allow you to work from home for this salary. Or is there? . . . .

        Frankly speaking, ( I am not trying to change the subject here ), however, after more than 1000 hours of research and very little sleep, I have found that there are no such things as a ” FREE, legitimate, work from home online ” job.

        I also do not believe that this website and/or company is even legitimate, much less exists. Just saying.

          1. johnny depp fan

            Thanks for the info.

            But this does not help me at all.

            As I am still searching for a ” free, legitimate work from home online job ” website.

            Every website I have found so far, is a fake.

            ( It was a good thing I never paid to join any of these websites ).

            1. Lazy Gardens

              I am still searching for a ” free, legitimate work from home online job ” website.

              There are a few I use which are for writers, including textbroker.com and Yahoo.

              However, they do require real writing skill.

        1. NeverWasPink

          Thank you for going through and dredging up old but good articles with your nonsensical babbling 🙂 I enjoyed re-reading this one.

          Now.. where do *I* start?! What are you even talking about? I would catch up on some sleep if I were you, my friend.

          You don’t believe that this website exists? But.. how did you… huh? Mind=blown. And not in the good way!

        2. Tigger

          When you posted this, it was game on. Yoiu started the playground bullying, and now that you realize we’re not wall flowers, you get all pissy.

          We can tell instantley whether or not someone actually agrees/believes what they read on PT or they are really just sniping.

          You are sniping. We are done with it.

  1. Didpink

    And if she is selling all that product, trust me it takes a heck of more time per week than the 6-7 hours she puts in to pay their 5K mortgage a month. I am wondering how a restrnt manager qualified for a mortgage that high with a husband like that.

  2. ttp

    If she’s doing so well why on earth would a $100 order make him uncomfortable? She has empty shelves to fill because she sells all her inventory at full retail!

    The combativeness and verbal abuse leads me to believe he sees the holes in the “Mary Kay Way.” Why else be so defensive?

    Who are you trying to convince Eric, yourself?

  3. exIBC78

    The thing that got me was she just put her first order in for 3600, so she would not have the inventory to keep up that kinda demand that she would need to generate that kind of income. Also he said he cringes when she puts in an order for more then $100. Why? IF those orders are paying your $5000 mortgage (btw OMG $5K mortgage!?!??!!!?!) then she lied to him over and over about when her first big order was, and how much inventory she had.

  4. ttp

    As per usual the focus is on the income only. How about expenses? How much of HIS income is syphoned off to pay the exorbitant Mary Kay expenses? How much household income is being spent on Mary Kay expenses?

    What about that pesky “unbillable time” it takes to prepare for classes, attend meetings, make phone calls, etc. That is time that should be included to get an actual pictture of the wage per hour that generates the income.

    Schedule C, Eric. Send it to Tracy, personal information excluded of course.

    I’d be doing a credit check right about now, just to see if she’s on the up and up. Any new lines of credit opened up you don’t know about??

  5. onceapinkhead

    This bozo says, “I still cringe when she puts in an order over $100” , “because I don’t sell the shit” , “she has not been successful enough to have her numbers posted in any MK magazines” , “Im not pro Mary Kay and trying to promote or sell anything. I could give a shit less if people buy it or burn it”. . . .

    Wow. Such wonderful confidence, Mr. Conklin. You are a contradiction, right and left. You are also a great example of someone who uses profianity to express his feeble mind.

  6. freshoutofpink

    Nice tirade for someone who is so secure with his wife’s MK business! Shelby and Mary Kay can be proud of their representative!

    I find people who are the most defensive, like Eric, are the ones who are actually very skeptical. As for the cringing every time she spends $100 for product, well she could sell that in a nano second if she were that successful. And, $3600 is pure pittance for inventory. Even $10K wouldn’t be enough. So I’m laughing at the $100 figure!

    So sorry you Shelby that you have to be married to this total piece of work.

    By the way Eric, did you know you and Shelby are right where Mary Kay wants you? Duped, duped, and duped! Good luck to you, you’re going to need it. Love your classy command of the English language too…..

    I love it when trash visits and tries to set us straight. Dude, you have no clue. Really, you have no clue!

  7. lilbunny

    I think this whole thing seems a little fishy. I think the email may have been written of co-written by the wife.

    Plus I’d be willing to bet that she has a “box of shame” filled with maxed out credit cards that her asshat husband doesn’t even know about.

  8. NeverWasPink

    But, ya know, I kept thinking as I was reading near the end.. Eric will make one heck of a PT soldier for us someday when (if?) he realizes that, indeed, the company has “f***ed” his wife over 😉 and, in turn, she has been hiding a LOT from him!!

    Eric! Quick! file her taxes for this year and see that Schedule C then join us! 😀

    1. NeverWasPink

      *amending that, it’s not his profanity and verbal abuse of Tracy that I like, because that makes him look like a tool actually, and I bet his wife won’t be very happy that her name and income lies are now VERY public 😛 but rather, his “passion” made me “LOL” 😀

  9. TRACY

    Yeah, the 6 to 7 hours per week is hilarious. Our member who were directors can attest to the fact that all directors lie when they say the work part-time. Just to stay afloat, they are working a minimum of 40 hours per week. And that eats into all sorts of family time. There is no truth to the saying that you work MK around your schedule. You work it around everyone else’s schedule, and have no life to speak of for yourself and your family.

    1. unpinkedassistant

      The director I worked for worked at least 60 hours a week, I worked 20, and her husband worked 40. All these hours working the biz and they lost money and were deeply in credit card debt. At the time she was a Cadillac director with a downline of 600 people. So that working part time claim is one big lie!

  10. Moosemama

    I’m thinking that this is another story of a MK hobby being supplemented by the husband’s job, If the could afford a 5k a month mortgage (WTF that better be an amazing house that cleans itself and cooks you dinner) then his job has to be substantial. Most lenders who will loan to you use a formula to see how much you can afford, As long as your other debt is lower they will use the higher end formula of 28% of your take home pay. I’m pretty sure that they bought this house before she quit the “restaurant biz where she was underpaid, underappreciated and pissed off all the time.” Also I know from experience that when we were buying a house you have to provide 2 years of tax returns if you have a commission based job for them to consider the income. I’m going to use some basic algebra to come up with their monthly take home. Using this formula with Y equaling their take home pay Yx.28 =$5000, Y ends up equaling approximately $17,857 per month as take home. I highly doubt that she was making that in the restaurant biz since he’s so happy she left. So the bulk of that has to come from his job.

    If my household was making over $17,000 a month I could be “successful” in MK too. You could pass off all sorts of business expenses as household expenses with that kind of money. If I was short a thousand dollars on production one month it wouldn’t be anything to use some household money to “supplement” my production, I could rationalize that I was buying important inventory for my shelves.

    1. johnny depp fan

      Hell, I would settle for even $2000 a month.

      I am not a greedy person nor do I have an interest in material things.

      I just do not want to struggle to pay my bills at the end of the month and have enough for a rainy day.

      But if I have to pay a fee, just to join a ” work from home online website “, then forget it.

      First of all, I cannot afford it and secondly, ( as a client ), I should not have to pay a company, just to work for or with them.

      1. Tigger

        JD fan;

        What the hell are you talking about? You are not even trying to understand what we are telling you.

        Mary Kay is NOT a work-from-home biz, got it?

        It is a multi-level marketing biz. Look it up since you’re so into research.

        Quit demanding that we do your homework. We don’t owe you that.

      2. Deflated Pink Bubble

        jdfan, you’re spamming our wall here. You’re talking nonsense and none of it has anything to do with Mary Kay or what we do here.

        There are no work from home websites that are legit.

        Mary Kay is NOT a “work from home” type of business as you are searching for and it definitely will not bring you in steady income.

  11. Didpink

    Well just for fun I googled this SD and up came her open FB page. This is a young military couple. Cute, goodlooking couple at that, but our boy Eric did time in Iraq which might explain his combative way of communicating. PTSD anyone? Still employed by the navy according to his FB page which is open as well. There is no way a young couple recently married (according to their pics within the last 5 years or so, he did a deployment in there too) is making enough to cover a 5K mortgage, I think that was a typo on his part or is he making the big bucks working for the govt at this tender age. I doubt that as well! Boy is this all going to hit the fan sooner than later.

  12. Moosemama

    Ok because I love google I decided to look up this prince charming. Based on his pictures I’m going to say he’s a total D-Bag and I really doubt he has a $5000 mortgage. He was in the military and lists his colleges as Central Texas College and Coastline Community College so he obviously is not an officer (my husband went to Central Texas College, its popular in the military for its online courses) They have no kids so that means that they probably do have a bit of disposable income, kids are really expensive and I can tell you that in my experience if it came down to spending money on myself or spending money on my kids, the kids win everytime. He was only in the military for 11 years so he’s not drawing a pension or benefits from them (unless he was disabled but he looks pretty healthy to me) His love of D-bag approved apparel tells me he is more than likely a massive D-bag (a fact confirmed by his need to have the last word with Tracy)

    Now moving on to her, Based on her public FB page I found out some very interesting things She joined MK in July of 2011 (thats when her debut was) and she became a director September 30th 2011 (or thats when she finally announced it with all caps and lots of exclamation marks on FB) . She picked up her 1st MK car on October 21st, 2011 and she was still working at a Restaurant called The Tobacco Company as of November 11th, 2011.

    Her unit’s name is the Record Breakers, Folks I think we have a wannabe Allison Lamar on our hands

      1. Hardcoreskeptic

        And thanks to her husband’s nutty screed, including how much she hates working in restaurant management, they better hope Mary Kay makes money versus the far more likely outcome of making little or getting them into debt because anyone with an Internet connection is going to see this when they search her name during pre employment screening…

  13. ridofpink

    Hi all, I haven’t posted in forever, but I read every day. I just sent Tracy a PM. They live near where I was born and raised so I did some more research. I was (very easily) able to look in the newspaper archives online and find out the address to their home, when they bought it, and for how much (public announcement as are all home closures). I then pulled the house up on Zillow (yeah, $5k my rear end), and it is also up for sale. They are trying to sell it for more than it is worth, I might add. I PM’d Tracy the address so she could look for herself (I didn’t want to cross any lines by posting it here). Another lie squashed.
    Also, according to Eric’s FB page, he left the Navy in July 2010. Not that he doesn’t work, but he hasn’t updated his FB to reflect his current (if any) job.

  14. Didpink

    Did debut in July, SD by Oct 1st?????!!?? So the 40 or so she signed up but only 12 or so who are seriously working it?? She will be a soon to be flunky SD since if you do it quickly, you fall even quicker. I cannot imagine the debt this young lady is ringing up even though the car is parked outside in the driveway. Selling the house to move on up? Or too much with that huge mortgage? Still waiting on tables? What the huge huge commision checks are not cutting it? Cannot wait to hear about the home for sale. Are you still there Eric? Lurking? Anyone else from the record breaker unit lurking? I am pretty sure they will be soon since if you google this SD, first comes up the pink truth that you are reading right now, then the FB profile. So anyone about to be recruited into this hot mess, here is what your future SD’s family is like.

    1. Hardcoreskeptic

      If he isn’t yet, he will be and so will his wife. They have distinctive names and the internet is forever, whenever someone searches their names, this will be in the first page of returns. It already is. On the plus side, there is no question it will bring some people investigating her Mary Kay business to Pink Truth.

      Way to go genius.

  15. NeverWasPink

    Hahahaha I’m laughing so hard… poor Eric! 😛 Shoulda just left us alone 😉

    Plus, what I find weird is that nowhere does he actually say she makes $5000 a month, except to say her income covers their $5000 in bills each month.. other things he said kind of didn’t fit that.. sooooo bottom line: Schedule C: put up or shut up!!! 😀

    I wonder if they know what a Schedule C is yet?? 😉

    1. johnny depp fan

      I totally agree with you when you mentioned, ” nowhere does he actually say she makes $5000 a month, except to say that her income cover their $5000 in bills each month “.

      1. Deflated Pink Bubble

        This is the exact statement:
        ” I had no idea that my wife would be able to cover our $5000 a month mortgage and living expenses,”
        That statement cannot be true unless she was bringing in over 5K a month. So YES he said his wife was making more than $5,000 a month.

  16. Flaming Go

    “About 2 weeks ago she was able to quit her job and focus on Mary Kay full time. She jumped in head first, bought the largest inventory ($3600) and decided right away that this is what she wanted to do……and it was a way out of the restaurant biz where she was underpaid, underappreciated and pissed off all the time. I still cringe when she puts in an order over $100 but after seeing the potential with the company I am a bit more comfortable with it.”

    He may not think he is a liar (though his defenses have really pushed the boundaries of what a lie versus straight answer may be), but overall the man is clearly bad at math. The woman went full-time MK just a few weeks ago, and still pumping $ into her business, but he thinks it has potential? Especially only after mere weeks being in MK? And he so righteously defends this position?

    While I am glad a man is willing to support his wife in her hobbies, he is fooling himself to think this is anything with real income potential. Being a director means that she must operate so that real information asked by recruits to be withheld, ignored, obscured, or glossed over. If he refuses to call that lying then it says a lot about his own integrity.

  17. pinksallout

    Ummmmm………..he completely contradicts himself and obviously has no idea what he’s talking about. I’m sure there’s plenty of debt he has no idea exists. Even if the $5000 is the total of their monthly expenses she’s not paying all those bills. With only 10 out of 40 of her unit actually working and I’m sure her ‘warm’ contacts used up she’ll crash and burn soon. Hopefully he speaks more kindly to her when it happens.

  18. raisinberry

    The really sad problem for all of these “representatives” of Mary Kay’s world is that they actually do not realize that all of their claims can bee verified. They think they can just spew anything…ANYTHING at all, and bee beelieved.

    For example, they do not know that former DIQ’s and Unit members can be on this very site, with access to the newsletters and emails that these ladies have sent out, showing Unit production. They are unaware that PT often uses remarkable restraint–REMARKABLE restraint regard “outing” these individuals. But every now and then, they are simply asking for it.

    Tracy here has used his own claims, regarding what her “income” would be, and he has NO IDEA that it is impossible. For some reason, these people simply do not grasp that there is NOTHING IN THIS for us. We gain NOTHING by whistleblowing.

    Sooooo, calling all interested parties…Please submit your data.

  19. Deflated Pink Bubble

    Ah Eric.. you doth protest too much. You are also totally full of crap. The problem lies in the fact that you don’t realize how full of it you are. Your numbers, or your wife’s numbers just do not add up. What you are claiming just doesn’t jive with the facts. You are not dealing with a bunch of idiots here. We have all been there. 90% of most of us have been with Mary Kay for 5 times longer than your wife has. From the beginning it is all good. Right now, it is pretty clear that you are a member of the “Husband Unawareness Program” and you really don’t know what you don’t know. I would venture to guess that your wife has multiple credit cards that are now maxed out. I would also venture to guess that you don’t know she has them. There is so much about Mary Kay that you don’t even know. Right now you are rubbing elbows with people who are great con artists. My friend, you and your wife are being conned. Mary Kay is a scam, pure and simple. You may not be seeing it now, you’re still in the honeymoon phase, just wait. Oh, and that close relationship you are cultivating with your wife’s senior director and her NSD? Watch that go by the wayside when your wife starts to slip. She has built a house of cards. One good wind and it’s all going to fall down. When it does, those people who are being so friendly to you, they will immediately turn their backs and ignore you. Yes, they are that fickle.

    It might be a good idea to run a credit check on both you and your wife. You might find that you are totally overextended and you weren’t even aware of it.

    Your house, with it’s 5K mortgage has been exposed. LIE. Why would you feel the need to lie about something such as that? Your home is for sale and it is not a home that would handle a 5K mortgage.

    Everything IS bigger in Texas. Including the lies.

    1. Deflated Pink Bubble

      Hey guys, I just did a BING search on Shelby Sutton-Conklin and came up with a Williamsburg, VA address… Hmmm..? Going to put this address on Google Earth and see what a home with a 5K mortgage looks like.

  20. Moosemama

    “About 2 weeks ago she was able to quit her job and focus on Mary Kay full time. She jumped in head first, bought the largest inventory ($3600) and decided right away that this is what she wanted to do……and it was a way out of the restaurant biz where she was underpaid, underappreciated and pissed off all the time. I still cringe when she puts in an order over $100 but after seeing the potential with the company I am a bit more comfortable with it.”

    Another interesting thing that this statement brings up, I’m guessing the real reason for the large inventory package is that she was short that much in production

  21. seeing the truth

    As far as sales…..her record (this is not common by no means) was $4600 in 48 hours (one large single order was over $3800 for the buyers clients).

    This was very interesting. First what customer would order $3800! Seriously if you are going to lie tell one that would be believable to women who are ex consultants. And it sounds to much like inventory orders but we are to stupid to figure it out lol. And I love the part when he says this is not common by no means, really you think since you are not telling the truth.

    No one she has recruited has shared her success,.
    Out of 45 something recruits there are about 10-12 trying to do something with it.

    Again we are ex consultants, ex directors, and even NIQs we know the commission percentages and you are admitting that only 10-12 are actually working and you don’t think we can figure out you are not telling the truth.

    Lets say that 11 members of her team orders including herself and each order $400 and all members are her personal team members and she earns the max on percentages she is still not close to bringing home $5K and we all know she isn’t selling it at full retail and he is not counting the expenses, the suit along is hundreds
    Bring on the Schedule C and we all know he will not show it because it will show the truth and make a lie out of him

      1. Moosemama

        it’s sad that he’s so uniformed that he can’t even say what he means, it makes me wonder if he truly is a member of the husband unawareness plan, if his wife is just telling him what she thinks he needs to hear.

        1. MLM Radar Detector

          To Eric “buying” does mean “selling” because he’s dog-paddling in the deep end of the pink Kool-Aid pool. The un-pinked among us sometimes want to forget that when you buy Mary Kay inventory you are applauded for “selling” even though the tape is still on the cartons.

          If that one large order was for the buyer’s clients, well of course it was. Eventually. Her clients just didn’t know it yet.

    1. Lexie

      Did you actually notice that her superior is Taylor Fehring and even she makes less than 5000 commission. So how on earth is Shelby supposed to get this much. Just look at Debi Moore area directors numbers.

      Eric thank you for making us the favour of shutting the fuck up.
      You are not only not capable of middle school level grammar in your shitty response, you keep calling us names instead of just showing us proof and facts, you want us to prove you wrong but you make us look for names (you do remember your wife’s name right? Half of it is the same as yours after all). The best way to shut people up is providing facts, numbers. You do not understand how income is calculated because well I assume your math skills are as good as your vocabulary. Luckily for you your wife’s director’s income and sales are posted online. Yay. Now you can go call your wife a liar too. Oh btw since this is really hard for you to process I’ll clear it up. Income is not how much you get on your check. Income is calculated after costs of running a business. You know AFTER ordering inventory…

  22. Kinzie

    .” No one she has recruited has shared her success, but there are some that recognize the possibilities and are trying, most have all but dropped it completely”

    Wow! Now that is successful!

    1. Deflated Pink Bubble

      That in itself is a pretty telling comment. I really can’t tell if this guy is flat out lying or just delusional. In any case, he has absolutely no credibility. And I REALLY hope he reads this.

  23. Notintopink

    Wow!!! This is all so interesting! I love a good scandal! I found your site, mainly out of curiosity because I have a friend who sells MK. She is over the top pink!!! FB feed is so much about MK!!! Annoying!!! One thing that made me curious and suspicious is the fact that “recruiting” seems to be a bigger deal than actually selling the product that is supposed to be so great. If all this were actually so great and such easy money, the entire world would be pink! Hello?!?! But it’s not. Red flag right there!!! Another thing I’ve noticed. She talks about so much “family” time but yet does all of her “parties” at night because I guess that’s when the working folks can attend the parties so she sits home all day while the kids are in school and once evening hits, she’s out the door for a party. How is that family time???? This is all interesting and I’m glad to see the fraud in it all and now have a different opinion of the “I love my life” comments. Oh, and great work on google on the Conklins!!!! Words to live by… “if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is”. Pyramid scheme!!! Should be against the law!

    1. Deflated Pink Bubble

      Notintopink, you are smarter than the average bear! It’s not easy money. They claim to give you more family time than you would have with a real J-O-B but in truth, you have far less time. Not to mention the fact that your entire world begins to revolve around Mary Kay. It’s just not what it’s cracked up to be. And your friend who “loves her life”, she is so deeply fogged that she has no idea how much she is alienating people. Her life ain’t that grand. It’s called “Fake it til you make it.” It seems that everyone in Mary Kay uses that “I love my life” comment. It’s a script.

    2. notapartyfan

      Notintopink… that’s exactly what brought me to PT – some questionable comments/claims made by a MK consultant at my church. I do a lot of research for my job, and automatically Google everything. Voilà! Up popped PT and I’ve been hooked ever since! I Never will I ever, ever buy MK again.

  24. Lazy Gardens

    Eric – Your wife has been in Mary Kay for less than a year. Wait until AFTER you have your 2011 taxes done before you start bragging on how much money your wife pulls in. What you are seeing in not her spendable income, it’s her “gross income” … from that she has to pay all her expenses, her SSI and her taxes … and if any of her recruits sends back inventory, she has to repay that commission.

    Take a good hard look at the Schedule C … what of her commission check was sucked right back out as a conference expense, gas money, etc. ?

    1. Deflated Pink Bubble

      Have I mentioned I think he’s a tool? I really think it’s funny that he thinks he can tell us something we don’t know. We could give this guy the education of a lifetime. He could get a degree on Mary Kay with what we know.

    1. MLM Radar Detector

      Well, since his grammar was weak and he didn’t put a comma in that sentence we can’t be 100% sure. It makes more sense to be saying “$5000 a month combined mortgage and living expenses.” But he very well could be saying $5000 a month mortgage, plus (an unknown amount) living expenses.

      Most likely it’s just several thousand a month new credit card charges, which she won’t be able to do for very long. I wonder how much she’s charged to her family’s credit cards to get that Mardi Gras fluorescent purple jacket.

      Eric, here’s a suggestion: Mardi Gras is over for the year. You can get jackets like that real cheaply right now from the clearance sale rack.

  25. Lazy Gardens

    Eric says: The only reason my wife was initially successful and able to build her MK foundation as well as get to the point where she is now self employed, was her work location. She built it from co-workers, employees, friends, family and others who were interested

    And Eric, she thereby destroyed her potential customer base, blew through her “warm market” and from here on out it’s going to be hard to keep that momentum.

    I seriously recommend you get a credit check on both of your names, because a bad credit rating can destroy any security clearance you might have.

  26. Deflated Pink Bubble

    I really do hope he comes back out to play with us some more… Truth be told, I hope he seriously takes a look at his credit rating and bank accounts and that he reads what we have said with an open mind. This guy is in for one rude awakening.

  27. hereiam

    LOL! Most of her working ibc’s? good luck with maintaining directorship… college kids don’t have enough credit. trust me, i was one of them. i had to quit because i had no credit left!

  28. Oney Jones

    I feel bad for this couple. I really do. The husband Eric really wants mk to be the opportunity it claims to be. I can understand that. He wants his beautiful wife to have a successful career that she loves, and one that provides a great living for the family. He wants her to be fulfilled and happy. What loving husband wouldn’t want this perfect job for his wife?

    If he only could understand how badly each of us who were directors with mk really wanted what “they” all said was happening. If he only knew how badly I wanted what his wife wants; if he only understood how hard I worked to make mk work for me.

    I hope he and his wife realize that when they do see the truth about it that they will feel like they can come here and be welcome if they need to in order to de-pink.

    They really are a nice-looking couple. I hope their marriage can stand against mk’s corruption. 🙁

  29. alaskan_blue

    Wow… What a sterling example of GOD FIRST. Clearly a very religious and CHRISTIAN man, what with turning that other cheek and everything. It’s men like YOU, Eric, who are the reason that families fall apart because of this business. You are not a husband, you are an ENABLER. Why don’t you come back here with some tax returns and Schedule C’s in about 5 years and let us know just how much money your wife has made and how wonderful your life is then. I seriously doubt she’ll be in that top 2% that actually makes money on the broken dreams and shattered lives of countless men and women that she has SCAMMED.

  30. alaskan_blue

    Wow… His wife is DEEEEEEP in the fog. Found these shots on her wall. Proud “sister” pic with Jordan Helou-Eicher and the second one is Jordan’s rings. She brags how she’ll have her “own set to display daily” soon. So sad.

    [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/alaskan_blue/PinkTruth%20Pics/jordan.jpg[/IMG]

    [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/alaskan_blue/PinkTruth%20Pics/jordanring.jpg[/IMG]

  31. marianne

    Not sure if Eric Sutton is still in the Navy, but assuming he is…

    He’s been in the Navy since June 2009. I don’t see any college listed, so he is likely enlisted. He’s got over 12 years of service; that would put him at E5 or E6, right? My guess his base pay is either $3012.90 (E5) or $3436.80 (E6) per month based on the 2012 payscale (http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp). He gets bonus hazardous duty pay when he’s deployed (or even when he’s on trips or missions that take him abroad, even if he’s not actually in a combat or war zone), and only a small portion of his income is taxable; they enjoy first class health care benefits. AND he gets a housing allowance, meaning that their mortgage is subsidized by the government…. I can damn near guarantee that their mortgage is paid (either full or in part) by the government, not his wife’s executive MK pay. Bottom line: for a young couple with no kids, they probably live comfortably courtesy of Uncle Sam…. NOT MARY KAY!!!

    1. marianne

      Okay, I do see some college. So he might be an officer. At 12 years he would be at O4 (Major in Army, don’t know the Navy equivalent), which is $6,738 per month… PLUS all the aforementioned perks. So if he’s an officer, his income is most certainly paying the bills AND subsidizing her MK *hobby* – cuz that’s all it is… a HOBBY, not a career.

      1. Lazy Gardens

        The college I see is one of the degrees here:

        http://www.ctcd.edu/goarmyed/degree_maps_goarmyed.htm

        It is part of AENET, which specializes in distance learning for deployed military. He may be working on the degree, because it requires in-person clsases at Ft. Lee, but in his pictures, he’s not an officer … yet.

        Yes, with the Navy’s free/cheap medical coverage, the housing allowance, and his steady income, she’s a prime target for a recruiter. I hope that tax time is enough to wake her up to the amount of money that she’s blowing away trying to make it big.

        I also hope she doesn’t get too deep in debt, because family debt is a huge black mark on your security clearance … because of the temptation to do stuff on the sly to make enough to cover the bills.

        1. marianne

          “I also hope she doesn’t get too deep in debt, because family debt is a huge black mark on your security clearance … because of the temptation to do stuff on the sly to make enough to cover the bills.”

          Yeah, no kidding. Debt is both a security issue AND morale issue, which is why a number of states have banned payday and title loan establishments on and within certain distances of military installations. MK and other MLMs CLEARLY have the potential to cause the same kind of debt-related liabilities.

          I’m trying to determine if Eric is still in the Navy or if he did in fact get out in 2010. I hope he is still in for the sake of his family’s finances. They’re really going to need the steady income and benefits, neither or which MK can provide. Bless their hearts…

          1. exIBC78

            Okay why ih why is MLM detection not taught to the military spouses when they come to their first base? I think that we should start trying to get all MLMs thrown off of military bases. They have no morals and if women in MK or any other MLM could cause their spouses to lose their clearances, and in most cases, the spouse never sees the real amount of the debt until they see all of the hidden credit cards.

      2. MLM Radar Detector

        Moosemama already covered that in her post. Eric is no officer; you need a 4-year bachelor’s degree to get a commission. At best Eric may have an associate’s degree, because he lists his colleges Coastline Community College and Central Texas College. Neither of those schools have bachelor’s degree programs.

        I myself am a retired military officer. I can tell you that the level of foul-mouthed, illiterate, math-challenged ignorance Eric displays would make him a total embarrassment in the officer corps.

        If Eric is still in the Navy after 11 years he’s an E-5, possibly an E-6, (a non-commissioned Petty Officer 2nd Class or Petty Officer 1st Class) so he’s getting 3000 to 3200 a month base pay, plus 800-900 a month housing allowance. Sea Pay would give him another 500 a month. At that rate he may take a while before he notices how expensive a Mary Kay directorship is.

        1. marianne

          Thanks for the clarification AND for your service, MLM Radar Detector! I was wondering how much the housing allowance was. So clearly his wife contributes ZIP to the family’s finances and more than likely uses his honest and hard earned income to feed the pink monster.

    2. Deflated Pink Bubble

      Uhm Marianne…. You doing some Mary Kay math over there? If he has been in the Navy since 2009, this would be his 3rd year not his 12th year….? LOL Now he makes even less money.

      1. Moosemama

        he actually went in in 99 and got out in 2010, also based on a picture of him in uniform he was a petty officer 3rd class (might be 2nd because it’s hard to see how many stripes the bird is sitting on) which makes him a E-4 or E-5 in the picture

        1. Deflated Pink Bubble

          Moosie, you are quite the detective! So he is out of the Military now… 10 years sure isn’t retirement in the Navy is it?

          Oh if he comes back to this site he is going to be LIVID at how much personal information he has opened himself and the wife up to.

          5K a month is a lot to expect of a Mary Kay Director’s income. We all know that with the size of her team, this number is impossible to hit.

          1. Moosemama

            no you can’t retire at 10 years anymore, they are coming up with a plan that will allow service members retire at 15 but they will lose some benefits, I’m sure I could find out what kind of discharge he has but really its not worth it, he’s a douche bag who doesnt know what he’s talking about.

  32. hereiam

    wait a minute… didn’t someone mention they are a military couple? soo if that’s true, I’m fairly confident she isn’t responsible for paying the mortgage since military couples get a “housing allowance” which usually covers most, if not all, of the mortgage.

    maybe I’m wrong though..

  33. marianne

    “At that rate he may take a while before he notices how expensive a Mary Kay directorship is.”

    I have a feeling he’ll get a rude awakening when he does the 2012 taxes. The Schedule C don’t lie…

  34. Trigger

    But $3600 is NOT the biggest inventory pkg. I believe it’s $5200?? possibly more by now? He doesn’t seem to know this.

    Hubbies need to tread carefully on PT. Unless they are the ones warm chatting and number-gathering at the malls, actually packing and DOING the classes, they have no clue what it takes to build MK or any other mlm.

    These are very tough economic times and women are being very careful how they spend their money. For the first time, even though I’ve used some MK products for decades, I’m looking at cheaper options – and I make a good living. I’m actually cutting back on 40 products in 5 minutes. Weary of the regimen.

    Talked to another boomer friend recently (previous MK cons.) who said Ivoary soap and a wash cloth is good enough. Starting to feel her vibe.

    It’s just sad how much humble pie we all have to eat when we come out of our mlm comas.

  35. pinkpeace

    I’m late to the party on this one, but let me add long-time director’s perspective on this. I used to throw out numbers that were technically true, but which had no context for the average person – my own husband included. I would say something like, “My unit did $5000 last month!” and not explain what that meant. To someone not familiar with Mary Kay, that may have sounded like, “My unit sold enough to make me $5000 in profit last month,” or “My unit was responsible for $5000 in sales.” I wasn’t about to explain – I just wanted to toss out that number.

    Because we all know, the figure of $5000 in a month sounds impressive, but is just above bare-bones minimum in order to even keep a unit. It’s certainly not making $5000 profit a month. (Heck, a $5000 month would guarantee a car co-pay.)

    So I wonder what Shelby is saying to Eric and what he’s actually hearing.

  36. notapartyfan

    As was mentioned, he said “$5,000 mortgage and living expenses” so I’m thinking he may be lumping all their living expenses together in that number.

    But wow, is this guy a contradiction or what??? Hey guy, how’s that “GOD First” working for ya? What language. I’ll bet she’s sh**ng a brick looking at his responses, which pretty much backs up most the info on PinkTruth about the liars and scammers there are in MK.

  37. JOB4me2

    I love how arrogant and tacky loudmouths think they can spew forth any lies they want and no one will be the wiser! Not very bright at all. I’m sure his wife and her upline will be thrilled when they see this blowhard making a fool of her. I don’t think he has ANY idea how many people in MK come here. LOL. Keep it classy, Eric!

  38. raisinberry

    The whole culture of “positivity” in mary kay means that no one EVER checks statements. earnings, claims, scenario’s, etc. We got very used to just repeating what we were told…what we heard. You just left out the parts that didn’t sell your story. It wasn’t overt lying, but it was always lies by omission. Since, asking for proof of ANY sales was being negative, no body did it. Most of us hid our real story in favor of that great story we told concerning the $1500 week…or the $800 class…Who in their right mind would get up front at the meeting and say, I FINALLY had a $300 week, but I rebooked this gal 4 times and there were no bookings from her show, so I am back at square one, stalking at the shopping mall.

    Just like these Helou “rings” she was sporting. My money says that they were Kathy’s…and I bet that no one knows that Jordan got nearly all the dissolved Units in Kathy’s line when their Director’s stepped down. Now that’s a fair playing field….don’t cha think?

  39. stinkinpinkthinkin

    I was just going to mention that if Shelby’s hanging out with Jordan Helou-Eicher, then there’s some serious manipulation going on through her and probably her mother, Kathy… That would explain a lot of Eric’s comments – in defense of his wife… Dan is the same way and the same kind of jerk. It’s going to take a major wake-up call for this couple to get out, if they are getting any “courting” from the Helou’s of ANY kind. They are one of the worst husband/wife teams at manipulation and spiritual manipulation as well. My former SD was very good friends with Kathy until she “wasn’t”. And our unit was one of those “dissolved” units that got rolled into Jordan’s!

  40. Oney Jones

    Interesting information there stinkin. I had no idea that dissolved units’ members could be put in another director’s unit. Does the NSD decide whose unit they become a part of?

    Speaking of spiritual manipulation… I saw on Kathy Helou’s facebook page a beautiful photo of a beach scene with footprints and the text was “Walking in His Will.” Her Scripture for that day and photo was Psalm 25:4 “Teach me your ways O LORD, teach me your paths.”

    I was thinking the other night how sad it is that she preaches this Scripture and yet teaches her directors to act in ways that the Lord finds un-loving. Things like encouraging recruiters to order in their recruits’ names under their recruits’ consultant numbers to activate or qualify them. Encouraging consultants to go into debt and order huge amounts of inventory and disregarding the comfort level of the new consultant. Teaching others to “fake it ’til you make it”… there are just so many actions of nsd’s and directors that simply go against God’s will for our behavior. He has commanded us to love one another and the things that go on in mk for the the sake of monthly production and trinkets are anything but love-ly.

    1. MLM Radar Detector

      “Interesting information there stinkin. I had no idea that dissolved units’ members could be put in another director’s unit.”

      One of the classic ugly characteristics that makes Multi-Level Marketing a scheme is that you have NO ownership rights to the unit you worked so hard to build. You are told that it is “your business.” You are recruited into it by being told that you can get lifetime residual income and live off other people’s work. But as soon as you fail to meet product ordering quotas your Directorship is automatically dissolved and reassigned to someone else. It isn’t just Mary Kay that does this; it’s all MLMs.

      In a real business you have legal rights to your unit/downline. If corporate wanted your unit dissolved they would have to buy it from you. In Mary Kay if you fail to meet quotas you are merely informed that your Directorship is being downgraded, that you are no longer entitled to your offspring, and that your unit is being reassigned.

      You may keep your first-tier recruits and your personal clients, but your commission % is slashed and your residuals from your “granddaughters” are permanently reassigned to someone else. Once they’ve been reassigned you can never get them back and all your work now profits someone else. This is why so many Directors keep bridging the gap by making personal credit card charges.

      1. Oney Jones

        Radar Detector,
        So there really is no room for maternity leave (therefore the unwritten “Cadillac before Conception” mantra), medical leave (Claudine Woolf vs. Mary Kay, Inc.). In other words, there is no room for real life to happen when you’re living inside the pink bubble.

        1. stinkinpinkthinkin

          Oney, the only way many of the “units” stay together if their SD has to take time off, etc., is if their SSD/NSD will cut them some slack – I believe that happened in my unit, more than once. My unit had been together for about 5 years from what I was told. My SD was very good friends with Kathy Helou. I joined the last year our unit was together – 10 months before my SD lost her unit – or stepped down as she wrote to us in her final letter. She had had several months where if you went strictly by the directorship guidelines, she should have lost her unit from what I can tell, but there were those above her that didn’t want her to lose her unit – read that as Kathy. We started receiving the emails and pleas to “stretch” to make production around June.

          When I joined (Jan 2008), my SD’s youngest child was just about 9 months old and the pregnancy had been a difficult one for her. I know she took time off, but I wasn’t involved in selling MK at that point and couldn’t say how things came down, just that she was bedridden for the last two months of the pregnancy as those from our church were praying for her health and that of the baby’s. I’m not sure how she maintained the car and unit – others may have done things for her or she could have been one of those rabid kaybots who worked from their bed. She had photo’s of her bringing her son home from the hospital in the pink caddie – she proudly displayed these on the mantle at her home. So at some point, she was driving the car.

          By the time I came on board, she was supposedly taking the money for the car (and we were considered a Cadillac Unit), rather than driving the car – I never saw the car and I never once saw her name in the “Clap” which said to me, she couldn’t have been making that much to qualify for the money/car, as I understand things – though I think then the qualifications were a little less than what they are now – so my thinking may be wrong.

          About six months after I joined (end of May/June) she moved out of the local area – about 3 hours away. Our “unit” was supposed to be adopted by another SD – who actually at the time was an SSD in our local area. I never attended another meeting after my SD moved. In Oct of that same year (2008) I received a letter from my original SD stating that due to personal reasons she was stepping down from directorship. I got the feeling it was definitely because of lack of production. It made me wonder why, it took all that time – because according to her, our unit had been in trouble since about the end of April – thus the pleas beginning of June of needing to order more product – not just to finish for the end of the year. She claimed that she lost her focus as she was dealing with personal issues involving the move and that’s why the unit began to disintergrate.

          The interesting thing is, that within a few weeks of my joining, we began to hear rumblings that units which were going under were being “funneled” to others in the Helou area and it seemed suddenly that SD’s who had been kind of struggling were miraculously “moving up” the career path. My SD was trying to keep things quiet, but the other SD who shared our meeting space was openly talking about it and several of us witnessed an argument between the two at one of the meetings. It was sort of left that yes, units were being passed on to others, but that she was certain Kathy was being “fair” about it. The one and only conference call that I participated in with Kathy in March, she said outright that if units were going to go under, she would decide how, when and whom got the unit members. That led me to believe the rumors I had heard were true.

          So my director lost her unit in Oct 2008 – and those remaining were funneled into Jordan’s – several of them are now SD’s themselves and one is touting that stupid “future” title! By that time I was inactive and nobody was bothering with me.

          1. Oney Jones

            Incredible. Thanks for taking time to share your experience. The more I learn about how things go down in this company the more grateful I am that I am not running my legs off in the big pink hamster wheel. I love my life. Really and truly.

  41. onelessSD

    all I can add to this amazing account of facts is:

    Eric- please provide your wife’s 2011 schedule C. It’s that crazy darn IRS form that’s required for all Independent Contractors. I’m sure the bottom line number will be far from what you’re spouting.

    How do I know? – been in your wife’s shoes for 7 long years- wishing I had those years to do over again – I certainly wouldn’t have spent them on directorship.

    We’ll be here for you & Shelby when it all falls apart.

  42. bellaone

    I actually feel kinda sorry for the guy. Yeah he’s rude and crass and obviously doesn’t know what his wife has gotten into, but he’s either been lied to or fed so much BS he doesn’t know who or what to believe.

    Even worse, I wonder what his little tantrum here is going to do to Shelby and her “business”. This is now up for everyone to see, and its not going to go away.

    I think Eric might have had some questions to begin with, why was he here in the first place?

    1. TRACY

      He is willfully ignorant. Was very quick to insult all of us and our stupidity to for disliking MK, but very forcefully threw out MK numbers that couldn’t possibly be true. His sister has tried to defend him by saying he didn’t know “exact” numbers, but he didn’t even know ballpark numbers. Being purposefully ignorant to the truth does not excuse the lie.

      He was here to tell us what stupid losers we are. 🙂

  43. raisinberry

    stinkin’pinkthinkin’, I have heard that scenario more than once. If you’re an NSD daughter, you essentially have it made, because you are going to reap the “reassignments”…and none of the other Directors in the line will for the most part even be aware, as your meteoric climb will be used to “shame” the rest, to get off their wilted laurels and get moving. It’s all good. See? It’s actually motivational!

    The playing field has never been equal in Mary Kay. But they sure want you to believe it is. After all, it is the core belief of the mlm structure…if you “work your business” you end up at the top.

    Only, not so much. The reality is that most of the grand successes come at great cost. And most of the Unit “magic” is a result of finding the right combination of dysfunctional women who will order to “help”…because they need to matter and can’t say no.

    And here is the “key”. The women who hostess are prime consultant material NOT because they hostess, but because those who can not say no as Hostesses, make great consultants who also can not say “no”.

    A Unit in failure is a Unit whose Director can no longer pump the gals for orders. In most cases she has no stomach to make the calls yet again, and “pull production”. She has no more “space” herself, so she faces the reality of her situation. It’s over.
    Ah! But the NSD girls have no such conscience. They can sift through the roster and find that KEY WOMAN who needs to simply be massaged up the career path…and its good for at least car production every month to “motivate” her! Cha ching! All you have to find is one! Surely there’s one in that defunct Unit!

    When you dissect this diseased scam for what it really is, you will discover how despicable, how self serving, how destructive this “opportunity” really is.

  44. seeing the truth

    Oh I see, I am willing to bet that is why Linda T. daughter is now in MK. I was in MK 2008-2010 and Linda said she would retire in 10 years give or take a few. Now her daughter is in MK and from her facebook and such she is doing ok.
    Could it be possible that Linda T. would give her daughter her personal unit once she retires?

    1. Oney Jones

      Katie Toupin is also in a band called Houndmouth. She has a unique voice and style–I like it. I hope she follows her heart and allows her natural God-given talents to shine. The world needs more music, not more Mary Kay!

  45. Deflated Pink Bubble

    I would love to be a fly on the wall when Shelby reads these posts.. and her upline as well. It seems she is probably a very sweet girl. If you look at her Facebook pics, she’s about as cute as they come. I’m really not sure if she is married to a tool or he is just so uninformed about Mary Kay and was trying to defend her. Not sure what he was wanting to defend, prior to this she was never a discussion on this board.

    Tracy, I would love to see all the communication surrounding this topic. Any chance you’d post it all? Definitely would be some interesting reading.

    I am truly starting to feel badly for this young couple. They are both apparently deeply fogged, he is obviously part of the “Husband Unawareness Program” and I’m sure, until he read this grouping of responses, he didn’t even know that program existed. They both are in for a huge wake-up call. I hope they can handle it. Truly. Poor kids.

    1. TRACY

      Oh, Eric has assured me that no one in Mary Kay cares about these posts. He’s not embarrassed in the least, and he meant everything he said. But he’s sorry. And I’m crazy. But he’s not insulting us. Yada yada…

      What Eric and Shelby don’t understand is that this article isn’t written for anyone in Mary Kay, necessarily. It is written for two kinds of people:

      1. Those who are hearing income claims from MK women and want to know if they’re true. The easy answer is NO. They are NEVER giving you the full story, and their earnings are never as much as they claim.
      2. Potential recruits of Shelby. Hopefully those women may do some research and end up here, so they can understand why they should not believe what she is selling to them.

      This site is about the dissemination of information and opinions on the “other” side of Mary Kay. Just as Mary Kay will not allow “anti” people to post on their websites or Facebook pages, we do not allow “pro” people to post on our website. Fair is fair, right?

      1. Deflated Pink Bubble

        Tracy, those of us here know what really goes on in Mary Kay. It is such a shame that so many unsuspecting women are still getting lured into this guise of a “business”. I really do feel badly for this young couple. BUT he started it! Fair is fair.

    1. Deflated Pink Bubble

      It appears we know more about Shelby’s Mary Kay business than her husband does! But, that was always the case. She sure ain’t covering the household 5K in expenses on her own!

    2. Hardcoreskeptic

      Yikes! And that’s before expenses and taxes. Working that job she so hated, even if she made federal minimum wage she would have made 7.25 x 40 (I’m assuming she doesn’t get overtime for her 70 hour weeks) x 4 = $1,160. With overtime, it would be far more.

      Sound financial move.

      Not.

      1. Deflated Pink Bubble

        From her FB profile, it appeared her “minimum wage” job was that of a bartender. Far from minimum wage when you factor in tips. She was at an upscale restaurant, this doesn’t seem to be at all the situation that Eric spoke of. They threw her a going away party and the gifts were nice. Sounds like she left a good thing.

    3. Oney Jones

      That also means a payment (at least partial payment) on a brand new Malibu, continued expenses of running a unit and less income on which to run it. It will be interesting to see what Feb. wholesale production is. Isn’t it still two consecutive months of not meeting the quota and your unit/director status is on the line.

  46. Moosemama

    We should really be thanking him, I mean if it wasn’t for him and his boastful comments we would have never known about miss Shelby and her “Record Breakers” If she is actually able to hold on to her unit and “promote” herself to NSD we are going to be able to document the rapid rise. Of course we all know how unlikely it is but hey crazier things have happened

    1. Moosemama

      you can’t miss your quota for 2 months straight, so she was short for January, she definitely has to make her quota for February, which I’m sure she will since she has already made an Inventory purchase of $3600 that her husband admitted to. So then she will be able to miss for March but will have to hit for April. Also since she isn’t hitting her quota (i love saying that instead of production) she is having to pay a co-pay on her “free” car

  47. raisinberry

    Directors don’t get the co-pay unless they miss the 6 month mark…It was like 24K for Grand am…48K for prix/G6…and you could pick initially whether you wanted Unit production or personal production of your team. Then I think it went to just Unit @6K a month for 6 months. You could be up or down on any given month…you just had to end the 6 month mark at your target. Premier Directors were at 8K…Caddy Directors @ 15,000 per month. Most of the MK world who won caddy’s are making co-pays. Any Unit member can check her own newsletter and see that. If Your Director drives a caddy and your Unit does 8K..guess what, She’s making half the payment out of pocket.
    ***Fun facts they don’t tell you while discussing the career path***

  48. bellaone

    So much for the “free” car garbage…but of course she’s trained not to talk about it. I hope Tracy is right, all this information will lead possible recruits the opposite direction.

    The whole thing is absolutely gross…Eric’s being taking for a ride, and Shelby is bee-lieving everything the K-bots are telling her. I mean, sharing some tacky hotel room with Katie Helou and doing a photo Op with her cheap MK jewelry, its sad the poor girl considers that a privilege.

    1. Deflated Pink Bubble

      Funny thing about the jewelry is, Shelby’s wedding set is so beautiful. It’s much nicer than any of that MK cheap stuff. She is definitely blinded by the sparkle.

  49. Oney Jones

    notintopink:

    IBC- Independent Beauty Consultant (beginning level)
    RJ- Red Jacket (at least one personal recruit)
    SD- Sales Director
    SSD-Senior Sales Director (at least one of your unit members is now an SD)
    FESD- Future Executive Sales Director
    ESD- Executive Sales Director (not sure how many but I think it’s when an SSD has 5 SD’s spin off from her unit
    FEESD– Future Executive Elite (Elite Executive??) Sales Director
    EESD-Executive Elite (or Elite Executive??) Sales Director (when you have I think 8 SD’s spin off from your unit
    FNSD-Future National Sales Director
    NSD-National Sales Director (not sure how many SD’s, and SSD’s you need to get to NSD)

    So it’s all about recruiting. The wholesale production quotas are put into place in order to generate more income for Corporate and when you recruit the idea is to get the recruit to place as large a wholesale order as you can get her to place because that is where the $$ comes from. The cosmetics and skin care is just a tool to use in order to get into other women’s space—a reason to call them–a reason to get to know them.

    1. Now You Know The Truth

      Eric & Shelby, Learn to stand in your truth. Your outlook depends on how you view a situation. It’s your “uplook” that made the difference. “God gives wisdom and knowledge and joy to those who is good in His sight.” Nothing produces enough enjoyment to carry us through life. Any job can be mundane and monotonous, can make you bored and discontented–unless you place God in the center of it. God can replenish your joy.

      HAVE A PURPOSEFUL LIFE. Be wise with the wisdom on this site and take back your life.

  50. notintopink

    Thank you Oney Jones. I am totally and I mean totally amazed at the sheer number if women who buy into this and don’t see it as a scam. It’s a very self centered business isn’t it. I can only imagine the amout of backstabbing and increased level if fakeness that goes on at these seminars.

    1. Deflated Pink Bubble

      Notintopink,

      The funny thing about this, is that when you are in, you really don’t see this. Something has to shake you to figure it out. When you are in that “pink bubble” everything is all good and you don’t see what is happening right in front of your face. It is a form of brainwashing at a very high level. I was in for about 5 years. I had found Pink Truth within a few months of joining too… I asked my upline about it and of course I was told that the people here were just negative and to stay off this site. But I came back.. I read, never posted but read. When I was doing good with my business, I wasn’t on here much, when I would hit snags, I’d come and read. When things in Mary Kay are going alright, the friendships and girl time and just the common bonds are so nice. It’s when you start to question things or go against the grain that the truth comes out. My Director lived in another state so I dealt with several adopted directors… every one of these women had a nice sweet personality on the surface but they each had a mean streak a mile wide if you crossed them. It’s not until you start seeing the negatives that you start to question things. So for the Beauty Consultant who is just trying to work her business it’s really not self centered. For the Sales Directors who are playing the game, for the Nationals, yes, for them, it is very self serving. Everyone else is just trying to get the dream they were sold.

  51. Trigger

    Dear ‘Now You Know the Truth,’

    Excellent post. You are so right. Any job can become boring and mundane until you put Christ in the middle of it. Thank you for reminding me of that.

    Sometimes I walk into work and sigh. Another day, another dollar. But that’s life. It’s getting through decades of that ‘life’ and making the best of it that causes us to mature – not joining some rah rah mlm.

  52. notintopink

    What is the average number of years women stay with MK before they finally realize they are chasing their tail??? Personally, I would get so tired if the constant hounding of people. My friend us relentless on Facebook. Post after post of business opportunity and make up. I can tell it is life consuming. I’m so glad I can leave my job and go home. Workday over. I don’t think its ever over for her. I may have to hide her from my feed. LOL

  53. Gabhappy

    I have to say, really bummed Eric didn’t show up to defend…sigh. It was interesting seeing the more defensive and angry he got, the grammar went down and swearing started up. If he is in the military and receives housing stipend, then how is it possible their mortgage(or mortgage PLUS expenses) equals to $5K per month? I am in Chicago and with as expensive as it is here, unless you are in a mansion, it does NOT come to that price.

    1. Deflated Pink Bubble

      Gabhappy, I am just outside of Chicago as well.. Northern burbs and Eric and Shelby are in VIRGINIA. The cost of living there is way less than it is here. Their house is a modest 3 bedroom ranch. I can’t imagine mortgage and upkeep on that house being 5K a month. Maybe with her huge credit card debt it might be.. Just sayin.

      I also wish he would come back and talk to us. Maybe he is reading and taking this all in. That would be a good thing. Eric, if you are reading this.. we CAN help you. We are not bad people here. We just know what you don’t. When you understand that, you will be able to make sense of what is going on within Mary Kay.

  54. Now You Know The Truth

    They feed on the product investments of a revolving door of new recruits, each subscribing to product purchases to qualify for commissions or advancement in the pyramid of participants. But for almost all newcomers, they are being sold a ticket on a flight that has already left the ground. MLMs can be extremely harmful, causing huge losses for those who invest the most in the schemes.

    Caution: Avoid falling for the line that purchases that you make for their own use are purchases you would have made anyway and therefore should not count. Typically, similar products can be purchased for a small fraction of the price from alternative sources. And purchases are seldom continued after participants terminate.

    Caution: MLM promoters and the DSA, often claim that many or most participants just work part time for a little cash to supplement income, to meet Christmas expenses, etc. This is one of their biggest deceptions. Profitability in MLM does not come cheaply or easily. It’s very costly and time-consuming, and compensation plans require consistent effort over time to advance in any MLM scheme. Based on the foregoing, part-timers and seasonal participants are not profiting, but are merely contributing to the coffers of the company, founders, and TOPP’s.

    Caution: Don’t accept the argument by promoters that success in MLM recruitment costs little or nothing. New MLM recruiters will soon start getting the cold shoulder from friends and relatives and have to recruit elsewhere. Again, anyone who climbs the ladder in the compensation plan must spend not only a great deal of time, but a considerable amount of money to be successful.

    As a general rule, the more a new recruit invests in an MLM program, the more he or she loses. This, of course, is true of most any scam.

  55. Chica

    Hey guys I have never been on this site before but I am a new MK consultant and I find this site pretty interesting. Now I have not been in the company long enough to prove or disprove any of the information on the site. However, I completely understand the credibility being that many of you all have notated that you were/are SD’s. I just have a few comments feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong or delusional since I am new to the company. Now I am under the impression that MK is a business and with all businesses there is a supply and demand, As I am reading the blog and thinking about the company, and can say that MK sells beauty care but what MK really sells are consultants, hence the recruiting aspect. I mean if everyone can buy wholesale then the company would be just like any other beauty care company expect it would sell to a middle man, but in essence MK does do that the consultants are the middle women If you think about it its pretty smart (revolving door) maybe my idea behind it is flawed. I also understand that the SD’s may push new consultants and they may give you a false hope that there are so good ones out their for my sake and I think that also depends on the new consultant. For instance my director wants me to be a star consultant but I’m a broke law student and I can only put in the minimum which is 600 and she is OK with that because we both understand that I can not do that right now. Also that I am just doing this as a side time gig. But I do want to say that I was able to sell about $1300 (estimation) in less than a week. So I do believe it is possible if you put your mind to it and do the work.So I say that to say I agree that SD push recruiting more than sales and I am pretty sure that their are sharks out there that swindle new consultants to help their own records. However, I would like to believe that there are some honest people in the company (for my sake I hope so) In addition, I would like to add that I have a Bachelors in Business and Psychology and a Masters in Social Work so although I am young I am not completely ignorant.

    1. TRACY

      Having degrees and being a law student means nothing when it comes to Mary Kay. You are ignorant of the MLM business model, as were many of us when we started with MK. This is what MK preys on. You don’t know the real deal, and convince yourself that this is a fine business model. You said you may be wrong or delusional, and I agree. If you are a “broke” law student, you have no business spending $600 on inventory. I do not believe that you sold $1,300 in your first week. $1,300 cash in hand? Doubtful. Because if you had that, you wouldn’t be talking about placing a $600 order.

      P.S. Your director has lied to you. $600 is not the minimum order. $200 is. See how easy it is to get conned?

      1. Chica

        Thank you for your insight, I am aware that $200 hundred is the minimum order, I meant the minimum order from the little booklet you are given. And the $600 did not come from my pocket, it came from what I sold to family and friends in order to make the initial wholesale purchase. So you are right I did not get cash in hand because they were all internet sales. I probably won’t be able to do that again because I’m sure I can not use the “Hey I’m a new consultant help me out approach”. But let me clarify for you because I know you guys do your homework. I asked 50 people to spend $25 on my site and when I only had about $900 hundred in sales ($450 wholesale) she placed an order, as the week progress I got more sales about $300 worth and that’s where I get the $1300 in retail sales, tax and shipping cost included now my numbers are not exact I am in the processes of tracking everything now. I chose not to spend all of the money because I wanted to see a profit quickly and because as you guys mentioned before the cost for events and gas will add up. I do want to say that I like the insight that you give because it allows me to be aware so that I can make a smart decision for me that decision is not to leave just yet, because I honestly only care to use the direct sales aspect of the company.

        1. TRACY

          Who is the “she” that is placing an order? You can and should place your own orders. Why does “the little booklet” only show $600 as the smallest order? SImple. To get you to spend more than you need to.

          I doubt that the 50 people you asked all spent $25 with you, as your numbers suggest. I suspect maybe 5 spent $50 each, at best. Typically we require proof of income claims on this site, but I’m going to let you slide this time.

          So now that you’ve sold to everyone you know, who are you going to sell to next?

    2. Lazy Gardens

      or instance my director wants me to be a star consultant but I’m a broke law student and I can only put in the minimum which is 600 and she is OK with that because we both understand that I can not do that right now.

      OOPSIE: The minimum order so you can get the 50% discount is $200 wholesale, not $600.

      That $600 “minimum” order you placed means that you are a “qualified recruit” … qualified for what? your law student mind might ask.

      … well, you don’t get anything, but a director gets bonuses and points for prizes and rewards for every “qualified recruit” she can accumulate in a month.

      How do you feel about your oh-so-considerate director now that you know she misled you into placing a larger order so she could profit?

      1. Deflated Pink Bubble

        I don’t doubt the initial sales you claim for your inventory order as I did the very same thing. HOWEVER, once you have hit all your friends and family up a few times, you’re going to start hearing this: “Sorry Chica, but I don’t need anything right now.” Or you will start having some people return items to you because they don’t like them or the skin care made their skin worse. (True statement by the way. The TimeWise line tends to cause severe cystic acne in anyone who has acne prone skin.) Once you burn thru your initial family and friends, you will find that this market is saturated. Everybody has either already done the party thing or went to a party already and they won’t want to do one but very few people will tell you that to your face. They will string you along and either cancel at the last minute or just not answer the door when you get there.

        I like your thought about Mary Kay selling the consultant and if they ever did that and provided the training needed, it would be nice. Truth is, you are MUCH better off getting a consultation at a Sephora Counter. Those women ARE trained. All the training they provide at Mary Kay is non productive training. They will train you on scripts. I have met only a handful of Mary Kay Consultants who KNEW how to apply make up. Just wait til you go to Career Conference and you see the way most of the women have their make up applied. They look like applicants for Clown College.

        The products are high priced and completely inferior to anything at a make up counter. They are basically Wal Mart quality.

        I was in Mary Kay for 5 years. At one time, I had over $15,000.00 retail product on my shelves. Guess what happened then. Mary Kay decided to do a packaging change on the Time Wise line. The product itself didn’t change but the packaging did. Try explaining THAT to your customers. They wanted the new packaging and I was stuck. As I came into Mary Kay the mineral line was about to launch. It was launching within 8 months. Of course, my director wanted to place my order but I didn’t let her. She would have loaded me up with the product about to be discontinued. I know this because she did it to several who came in after me. Those people all had a load of product that was totally discontinued. They had to invest in all new stuff and the old stuff… Well, it is probably still on a shelf in their home somewhere.

        The business plan is flawed. Oh, and it is NOT taught at Harvard either. There is no way to make money with this product. NONE. I tried. Everyone here tried. There is a reason this site exists and it is not just so we can moan, groan and complain. Far from it. We walked the walk and we are proof it doesn’t work. Those women you are meeting who are claiming so much success? They are practicing something called
        “Fake It Til You Make It”. A concept taught at those Mary Kay training sessions.

        Mary Kay is built on lies. Pure and simple.

        Suggestion: Cut your losses and get out before you lose a lot of money and rack up a lot of credit card debt.

        Just sayin…

  56. Chica

    Thank you because I’m new at this. Yes I know its hard to believe but I just know that many people that would want to help me out. What I am going to do next is hustle lol. But I had her place the order because I just moved and my internet was not set up. But like I said prior thank you for the insight I would take it into consideration when something seems fishy, but as for now it just seems like business. I am sure someone has work in retail sales lets say Footlocker, while they do the same as we make and sale the individual sales person has a goal if they make it they get a incentive, and the manager get an incentive off of the sales person and district manger get an incentive based on the districts sales and the regional gets a incentive for the regional sale and so on. Now my purpose on responding was not to be insulted just like I did not come on here to insult any of you. I responded to let you all know that I appreciate the insight and that I was going to take your knowledge into consideration with everything I do. Now the need to respond back attacking is unnecessary but I also can not control what you write. Thank you ladies and gents for the site and I will check back periodically to read new articles but if I can not state my concerns or opinions without the attitude then I would just read and keep moving.

    1. Deflated Pink Bubble

      Here is the thing. This is not a site where we will encourage anything Mary Kay, nor will we accept random numbers being thrown at us. This site consists of a group of people who have been burned by Mary Kay and are willing to speak out about it.

      You cannot compare your experience in Mary Kay with working at Foot Locker. Yes, there are bonuses and commissions at Foot Locker but there is also an hourly wage.

      I have yet another suggestion. Read everything on this site. Register and read the boards inside. If you read what is on here and have any sense about you at all, you will see that the whole Mary Kay idea is a bad one. You will never, ever get any encouragement to continue with Mary Kay from anyone here. EVER.

    2. Lazy Gardens

      I am sure someone has work in retail sales lets say Footlocker, while they do the same as we make and sale the individual sales person has a goal if they make it they get a incentive, and the manager get an incentive off of the sales person and district manger get an incentive based on the districts sales and the regional gets a incentive for the regional sale and so on.

      Yes, but that’s a real business, with the Footlocker company taking all the financial risk on inventory, doing all the advertising, and paying those bonuses when shoes are SOLD to real end customers. They set the sales goals based on real estimates from real past sales to real customers. They open new stores based on sales and customer data, including the number of competitors.

      In Mary Kay, your director gets her bonus whether you sell anything or not. They don’t track sales to end users, and they won’t give you the information you need to make real business decisions.

      The Footlocker sales staff, store managers, etc. are paid a salary or hourly wage whether any shoes get sold that day or not. In Mary Kay, you can spend hours on the phone calling people about coming to a sales party, a couple hours packing and setting up, and a few hours pimping your stuff … and if no one buys anything, you just made $0 per hour.

      In Mary Kay, you will not get the big prizes – the cars, the rings, the cruises – unless you RECRUIT. It’s very revealing that they say they are in the business of selling cosmetics, yet the big prizes and promotions aren’t for selling, they are recruiting. You have to recruit. You will be encouraged to destroy your customer base by recruiting from them to “build your team”.

    3. TRACY

      Ah yes, the retail manager line. We’re told that when we’re recruited into Mary Kay in case anyone brings up the issue of pyramid recruiting. It makes sense, doesn’t it? You “manage” someone, you get a small bit from their sales.

      Except it’s not the same. Mary Kay doesn’t care if anything is ever sold. You get a portion of what your recruit BUYS, with no regard to what is sold. That’s why everyone is encouraged to load up on inventory. The upline needs you to BUY BUY BUY, cuz that’s when they get their commission.

      I realize you know A LOT more about Mary Kay that we do, but you would do well to spend some time reading articles on this site. You’ve obviously heard all the scripts and lines. I appreciate your enthusiasm and desire to “hustle”, but unfortunately, we ALL hustled. Almost everyone in Mary Kay loses money, even if they hustle. If they do make money, it’s because they recruited (with deception, of course) and “pulled inventory” (got them to purchase inventory, just like your director was trying to get you to do).

      What you will find is that if you profit (and you just might… especially if you don’t give in to the pressure to buy inventory), you’re going to make around minimum wage. Your upline will tell you to take the amount of time it took you to do the class, divide by your sales, and VOILA you have your dollars per hour. The real way to do it is to count all your time on Mary Kay – – stalking victims, passing out cards, making phone calls, hounding people to buy and attend events, getting ready for the class, doing the class, following up after the class, attending MK events, doing paperwork, etc – – and divide your PROFIT by that number. That is how much you make per hour. It will likely be around $7 per hour.

    4. A Reader

      “I am sure someone has work in retail sales lets say Footlocker, while they do the same as we make and sale the individual sales person has a goal if they make it they get a incentive, and the manager get an incentive off of the sales person…and so on.”

      Major difference: the retail clerk at Footlocker didn’t have to fork out a penny for inventory. Even if a Footlocker goes out of business, no one who works there is out any money. Whereas you have to lock up hundreds of dollars in inventory that may or may not ever sell.

  57. Moosemama

    Just a heads up Chica, your “discount” only lasts for 3 months. So depending on when you made your initial order you either have the discount for Feb-Mar-Apr or Mar-Apr-May On the first day of the fourth month (either May or June in your case) you will be required to order another $200 wholesale to reactivate your discount. It must be made in a lump sum order, you could decide to not make the order and you would still be a consultant but if you had a customer that wanted to buy a lipstick or a skin care, in order to fill her order you would have to purchase $200 in inventory to gain your discount back. Your customer’s order would not be profit and you would be actually losing money by making that order.

  58. MLM Radar Detector

    Chica, I have a question.

    “So you are right I did not get cash in hand because they were all internet sales. I probably won’t be able to do that again because I’m sure I can not use the “Hey I’m a new consultant help me out approach”. But let me clarify for you because I know you guys do your homework. I asked 50 people to spend $25 on my site…”

    They were all internet sales… I asked 50 people to spend $25 on my site…

    Did anyone else notice this? Chica is talking about selling Mary Kay through a website, and not through giving facials at parties. Chica is taking pre-orders from customers at the website, then filling them by placing a Mary Kay inventory order.

    Chica, what website are you using? And how do your asking prices compare to the 50,000+ Mary Kay listings on eBay and Craigslist?

  59. Gabhappy

    “They were all internet sales… I asked 50 people to spend $25 on my site…

    Did anyone else notice this? Chica is talking about selling Mary Kay through a website, and not through giving facials at parties. Chica is taking pre-orders from customers at the website, then filling them by placing a Mary Kay inventory order.

    Chica, what website are you using? And how do your asking prices compare to the 50,000+ Mary Kay listings on eBay and Craigslist?”

    THis would be valid, or at least I think it would be as I did a similar thing when I started. I didn’t have a debut party bc my director was SOOOOO pushy she was embarassing. I did one party the entire time I was in and everything else was on my MK website or through friends/family. I NEVER warm-chatted..you know…this is why I am a lazy looser…

    1. Deflated Pink Bubble

      You know, looking back, I even discounted my initial orders. I offered $150 in product for $100 in order to get my first order in at a qualified level. Should have seen it coming back then… Hindsight is 20/20 ain’t it?

  60. A Reader

    There’s something profoundly disturbing about a man who feels entitled to use such vulgar, abusive language to women he doesn’t even know. Eric’s responses contain a strong element of sexual intimidation. He would never dare talk this way to another man (someone his own size, who might successfully retaliate). He wouldn’t tolerate it for one moment if another man spoke or wrote this way to Shelby. He writes like a man seething with contempt for women, that is, for all women except those few he sets on a pedestal. What will happen to Shelby’s pedestal if it turns out she deceived him about her earnings?

  61. katherine

    I joined up at a friend’s party. It sounded to good to be true and it is. I barely make ends meet as it is, working and going to school full time and a single mother of an 8 year old. According to my trainer I was supposed to take 2+ hours out of every day to call contacts and set up meetings. Guess what! No one wants to host a party! No one wants to buy anything because no one of my family, friends, coworkers, and oh even the whole idea of “tell your classmates to get them interested” …no one has the extra money to throw around on $20 facial cleanser etc. I have lost more money trying to drum up buisness than I ever would see also to “stay” a member I have to make a $200.00 sale (at which I would see no commission) in order to later get my 50% off. Tempting as it is to “buy” 200.00 dollars worth of stuff and maybe claim on taxes as presents for incentives to host a party… I do not have that 200.00 to waste.

  62. Pingback: Pink Truth » Mary Kay Husband Lies About His Wife’s Success

  63. Scrib

    “Unfortunately there are consultants and directors out there that lie to people, sucker them into buying a massive inventory and then dropping them immediately afterwards just to help themselves get ahead and earn a little more commission for the month. Let me tell everyone right now that these types of folks are the minority in the company and are few and far between…”

    And let me tell you, my friend, that most National Sales Directors are the ones pushing for the full stores and teaching their wide-eyed directors to do likewise. NSD Pamela Shaw, NSD Dacia Wiegandt, NSD Gillian Ortega, and SO much more if you call within the next ten minutes!

    Frontloaders in Mary Kay are quite far from being “few and far between.” Production isn’t going to make itself, and nobody wants to lose the unit/car/title they worked so hard to achieve because of low production numbers.

  64. fallenStar

    I’m a new consultant with MK. I used to be very excited at the beginning, trying to sell and now I realize that the majority of people don’t like sales people. I do like the products and that’s about it. Instead of selling I will just buy for myself and about the directors , yes is true they are greedy bitches they only think about themselves. Directors fill your head with fairy tales the only thing they care about is how much money you can spend in supplies.

    1. Deflated Pink Bubble

      FallenStar,

      First of all, welcome to Pink Truth. If you really like the Mary Kay product line, you can get anything you want for less than wholesale on EBay. The products truly are not that outstanding. You can get comparable items at Target and WalMart for less money as well. If you would REALLY like some great products, try the Sephora counter!

  65. C.M.Knippling

    I am coming late to this site (but kudos on doing an amazing job educating people in, thinking about going in, or just gotten out of the Evil Pink Empire (P-evil Empire?).

    Anyway, noticed this website below when looking for follow-ups – apparently Shelby’s tremendous selling skills just weren’t enough to avoid bankruptcy. Interestingly though, she seems to have disappeared from her Facebook account in terms of posting Mary Kay dogma until recently (June 2015) starting up again. Not sure if this was the reason (but am speculating it is): I imagine the bankruptcy supervisor wasn’t about to allow her to dump more inventory on her credit card debts during the bankruptcy period/proceedings, and with no credit cards, I imagine her ability to purchase from Mary Kay was severely curtailed.

    It makes me sad – it’s the equivalent of seeing your neighbor trying to start a campfire in his living room – it doesn’t matter that it ended up burning down the homes of all the other people who’ve tried it, the neighbor is convinced his will be great because he works hard at it. But beyond that, after filing for bankruptcy, to see them GO BACK to MK…to continue the metaphor, your neighbor lost all his possessions except for a family photo album, which he then tries to use for kindling in the burnt remains of his house.

    http://amarillo.com/news/latest-news/2014-02-22/bankruptcies-sunday-feb-23-2014

    1. MLM Radar

      Thanks!

      I notice her bankruptcy is a Chapter 7 non-business consumer bankruptcy.

      They may think of themselves as “owning their own business.” The court knows better.

      Furthermore, the court knows that their income claims are lies. She doesn’t have a regular income from her Mary Kay “business.” Since 2005, most people who file bankruptcy and have a moderate regular income have been required to go through the Chapter 13 five-year bankruptcy plan. It speaks volumes that they filed a Chapter 7.

      And now that she’s out of bankruptcy she’s back in Mary Kay? Some idiots never learn.

    1. MLM Radar

      $70,000+ in credit cards, charge accounts, and personal loans. $39,000 home equity loan. Home mortgages maxed out. Don’t know how much of that was blown on Mary Kay, but it must have been a lot.

      Hubby earned $45,000 per year. They probably had a very nice lifestyle before Mary Kay.

      I notice Mary Kay inventory wasn’t listed as an asset. Chapter 7 Trustees are relentless about converting assets with value into cash for creditors. If anyone can squeeze cash out of an asset it’s a Chapter 7 Trustee. When he says Mary Kay inventory is worthless, you KNOW it’s worthless.

      And now she’s back in. I hope for hubby’s sake that she’s just trying to sell off what the trustee wouldn’t. Otherwise he should be asking that nice bankruptcy lawyer for a referral to a divorce attorney.

      1. Momster

        I wonder if they were having financial issues prior to Mary Kay and thought it was the answer to all their problems. In one of the husband’s emails, he mentioned that her MK income was covering their $5,000 in mortgage/living expenses. That’s $60,000 a year (and probably more) being spent with about $75,000 income (pre-tax). Mary Kay probably seemed the answer to their prayers and instead turned out to be just the opposite.

    2. raisinberry

      To Lurkers… see…this is why we say they lie. They just flat out lie. If it is on the Seminar Stage, and it is speaking to you, and it’s mouth is open, it is lying. If it is talking to you about the opportunity after a skin care class, it is lying. If you are sitting at a Hotel listening to a NSD telling her rags to riches, IT IS LYING.

      If it tries to convince you that it is having success in Mary Kay, it is lying.

      Example after example comes forward to CONFESS to this truth…because they can not RECRUIT people if they knew what is ACTUALLY required to make it to the top of a MLM.

      No decent human being wants to DO THAT to other people! You have to be IN DENIAL to continue to do it..as we all were. One day, you wake up. The upline pyramid dwellers make money off YOU ORDERING AND ORDERING AND ORDERING AND FINDING OTHER TO ORDER, WITH ZERO REGARD as to whether you EVER make a profit.

  66. Sarah

    I realize this article is super old, but here’s what I found.

    I just did a quick search of their names: They live in Randall County, which is in Texas. The population is 120,275, and the percentage of those living under the poverty line is 8.7%. The median household income there as of 2010 is $42,712 and $52,420 for families. Males had a median income of $36,333 vs females at $25,358.

    Next stop: “how much house can I afford?” calculator. To have a $5,000 mortgage, your house would be in the $700k-800k range, depending on area taxes and home insurance rates. This alleged house could actually be worth more as the initial 20% down payment isn’t calculated into the monthly figure. It’s a tad complicated to get an estimate on the starting home price with taxes and insurance included, but just to give some perspective, 20% down on $700k is $140k!

    At last but not least, as part of my google search, I discovered that in April of 2017, Eric and Shelby got a divorce. I wonder if it was from Shelby hiding maxed out credit cards to mask her pink lies to Eric!

    1. Mercure

      Now isn’t that interesting. I haven’t been here in ages, but this was always one of the funniest articles on here and I always wondered how it’d turn out for these two.

      Can’t say I’m exactly surprised.

    2. BestDecision

      Divorced! Add them to Kathy Helou, Allison Lamarr, Cecilia James, and countless others. Money is one of the biggest rifts causing any divorce, but when you put a big sucking thing called Mary Kay to it, it’s no wonder.

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