Cheat to Get to Director and NSD

As we know, it’s commonplace for women in Mary Kay to cheat to get to the next level. Whether it’s recruiting your grandma to get the number of bodies needed to finish DIQ. Or it’s the production needed by the downline to get to national sales director. THEY. ALL. DO. IT.

Every single woman who gets to NSD gets there by doing something unethical. That might include paying for someone’s order. Signing someone up without their knowledge to get the number of bodies. Encouraging a DIQ to do either of those things.

Jamie Taylor finally met the requirements to get to NSD, and she’s just waiting to be officially appointed by Mary Kay.

The below video tells the truth of how she got there. It was by people like Gabby Blanton and Jennifer Witt. Jamie says Jen and Gabby “carried this whole area.” They both had to finish DIQ and become directors in March in order for Jamie to “finish her area.”

You do not finish DIQ in one or two months with legitimate recruits and legitimate orders. You do them with warm bodies… with the DIQ paying for people to sign up, paying for inventory orders… with the almost-NSD paying for a bunch of orders. (We’ve all heard the stories of new NSDs with thousands upon thousands of dollars of products in their basements and garages.)

Because in Mary Kay you do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get to that next level. It’s even more important when you’re trying to get to NSD because that’s where you’re supposed to make the big money.

Jamie all but admits there are people ordering just to pump up the numbers at 3:55 in the video. The she mentions people who “didn’t keep a lick of profit,” which is another way of saying people ordered products they didn’t need. She goes on to say that she doesn’t have a credit limit high enough to finish a national area, but you bet she could buy a few thousand here or a few thousand there to finish. And there are all sorts of promises that are made and arms that are twisted to get women to use their own credit cards.

Here’s another fun fact. Gabby started doing a product countdown, saying she needed to sell ____ products to become a director. I first saw her around 80-ish products, and then she would post an occasional update with a lower number. When everything was done, she said she sold all the products.

Except here’s what she posted afterward. She says this is half of the orders she got. I count 11 packages. And all but one of them is small. I doubt Gabby sold her the products she says she did. Bugt who needs to sell things when they have credit cards!

71 Comments

  1. AnonyMouse

    That was horrifying. She just admitted for the entire world that retail sales don’t matter in Mary Kay, that the wholesale orders are what matter, and that is a direct violation of the FTC’s Direct Selling Rule for MLMs. Wow. Just wow.

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    1. Reckless mermaid

      You took the words out of my mouth. I used to look up to her like you wouldn’t believe. Horrifying to hear her openly state that she doesn’t have the credit limit to fund a national area WHY WOULD THAT EVEN CROSS YOUR MIND JAMIE. And I just know that area was created on the backs of directors and DIQS who could NOT afford it. It’s gut wrenching to hear her say it and not even hear that it’s so wrong.

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      1. Char

        “And I just know that area was created on the backs of directors and DIQS who could NOT afford it. “—

        Yep, and the directors and DIQ’s were created on the backs of consultants who also couldn’t afford it. So sad. The tentacles reach far and wide in MLM.

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  2. BestDecision

    Like Kimberly Copeland that finished NSD with a garage full of inventory. Credit cards will get you across the finish line, but then the REAL work begins to keep up the facade and numbers. Just because you finished DIQ doesn’t mean you don’t have production requirements the next month. And then you want to be a “Big Girl” and be praised with recognition for Cadillac, etc.

    It never stops.

    We celebrated Red Jackets more than $1,000 weeks, which were a rarity. Reds are built from recruiting ALONE, not sales. Star Consultants were celebrated with some big event and sashes to wear, but it didn’t matter if they ordered it all the day before the deadline and hadn’t sold a penny. $300 weeks got 20 cent ribbons, but new Senior Consultants got $2-3 pin enhancers.

    A complete sham. So glad to be free from it!

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    1. TRACY

      Ooooh you knew exactly who I was thinking of!!!!

      Remember Amy Dunlap? She actually laid out the dollars and cents of her journey to DIQ in her lawsuit against MK:

      During the time she was a National Sales Director in Qualification (NIQ) Defendant/Counterclaimant and her husband invested more than $48,000.00 in wholesale purchase of products from Mary Kay in order to help eighteen of her Sales Directors meet the stringent $4,000.00 per month minimum qualification for each of their sales units each month for four months, in order for Defendant/Counterclaimant become an NSD.

      http://www.pinktruth.com/2012/08/22/former-national-sales-director-amy-dunlap-alleges-mary-kay-is-a-pyramid-scheme/

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        1. TRACY

          Apparently so. Using a director’s credit card for someone else’s order is heavily discouraged by corporate. So the recruit is trained that if MK calls them to inquire about it, they are to say “I don’t have a credit card and needed to order these products, to the sales director used her credit card. I paid her for the products at the time she placed the order.”

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      1. Mountaineer95

        I know this comment is a few weeks late, but your comment here should be a textbook response to all of our lovely critics who stumble upon this site and take the time to email/comment: that an NIQ spent nearly fifty grand on “production” (most of which was never ever sold) to gain the NSD title. Let these “I’ve been an IBC for THREE WHOLE MONTHS AND EVERYONE I KNOW IN MK IS MAKING DOLLAS” challenge the clear evidence that the positions they’ll never achieve were BOUGHT. FLAT OUT BOUGHT.

    2. Char

      Can someone please explain this, “us, we, our”? She doesn’t share her car, commission check, or retirement with them, does she?

      I want to understand this mentality of getting someone else to NSD, and how it directly benefits the people charging up their own credit cards. Why? What’s in it for them?

      I am not talking about someone who has plenty of money who wants to help someone out. I’m specifically talking about downline who are “in” MK to profit themselves, and probably struggling. I don’t get it.

      *I suspect I know the answer (con, snow job, cult tactics), but I’d like to hear it explained from a former MK downline.

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      1. AnonyMouse

        It’s classic Group-Think. It’s cultivating this team mentality where everyone from the bottom up feels a sense of pride and excitement and accomplishment even if they are not directly reaping the benefits. It’s accomplishment by association. You get to brag about your Director/NSD and their accomplishments and feel that pride by association. It’s intoxicating. It’s a quick hit of The Happy Chemical to your brain. And then you want that quick hit over and over again so you keep grinding “for the unit”. It’s one of the reasons why women stay for so long. Because once you cut off the source of those quick hits, it’s a huge letdown. Once that secondary sense of accomplishment is gone, there is room in your brain for all the thoughts and questions and feelings you had all along that were masked by all the rah-rah craziness. And it sucks. But it’s a necessary part of recovering from being in the MLM world.

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      2. TRACY

        LOL – The old “us” and “we” that we hear all the time in MK. Because it’s a team effort. And no one gets there alone.

        Right. No one moves up in the pyramid unless the downline orders. The downline doesn’t need or want the products, and won’t be able to sell more than a token amount. But by God, we’ve got to come up with ta story that makes THEM feel invested in being a part of the big goal so they place those orders.

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      3. EyesWideShutNoMore

        Basically, no one wants to be on a losing team. (I can’t speak to a winning National area, I was in Go-Give for most of my time). If you’re in a Cadillac unit, you get better seating at events or if you’re in a Unit Club, same thing, it’s more VIP. It’s a warped version of keeping up with the Joneses to help the unit “win.”

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        1. Char

          “If you’re in a Cadillac unit, you get better seating at events or if you’re in a Unit Club, same thing, it’s more VIP.” —

          Just like the theatre. The more you pay, the better seats you get.

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      4. Mountaineer95

        Here’s a question about that “NSD Retirement Check” that Jamie is looking forward to three decades away from now…if Mary Kay Corp ceases to exist between now and then, do NSDs under 65 at that time get any type of prorated payout? Do any already-retired NSDs at that time get anything else? I’m curious how the contract is worded in relation to this. Because I suspect that MKC probably won’t be around when Jamie finally turns 65.

        1. TRACY

          When NSDs retire, MK likely buys an annuity that pays out their monthly earnings. So those already retired are mostly likely safe. Anyone who hasn’t retired yet? They will get nothing.

          1. Peggy Hicks

            It my understanding that the annuity payments are made starting at age 65 & ending at age 80. Under the circumstances, if a retired NSD is smart she will have put some money away that she can live on once the annuity payments stop. People are living longer than they used to & I can’t imagine outliving my money. Unfortunately, it happens. Hopefully the retired NSDs can finally start living within their means because they should no longer be on the hamster wheel recruiting & paying tons of money for expenses they shouldn’t have to incur. I honestly wonder if a retired NSD ever really gets off the hamster wheel. When I retired from my J.O.B., I never looked back even though I loved it. It was time to kick back, relax, & enjoy being able to do whatever I want without answering to anyone, & it’s wonderful!!

          2. Peggy Hicks

            It is my understanding that the annuity payments are made over a period of 15 years starting at age 65 & ending at age 80. If a retired NSD is smart she will have put some money away that she can live on once the annuity payments stop. People are living longer than they used to & I can’t imagine being in a position of outliving my money. Unfortunately, it happens. Hopefully the retired NSDs can finally start living within their means because they should no longer be on the hamster wheel recruiting & paying tons of money for expenses they shouldn’t have to incur any longer. I honestly wonder if a retired NSD ever really gets off the hamster wheel. When I retired from my J.O.B., I never looked back even though I loved it. It was time to kick back, relax, & enjoy being able to do whatever I want without answering to anyone, & it’s wonderful!!

        1. Mountaineer95

          I had not heard of Shirley Bassey and your mention led me down a prolonged rabbit hole. How did her daughter die? Was it NOT an accident or suicide? Is there new evidence? At least I now know who Shirley Bassey is and can mentally send my regards to her kids. But what a story.

  3. Kristen

    I noticed the fake crying too, followed by forced smiles a moment later and hand clapping to emphasize her points. As far as the “we” in helping a unit finish DIQ, NSD, etc, my psychology background tells me that people are strongly motivated to be a part of something bigger than them. It’s even more powerful than money. As a former IBC, I had no clue that all the directors were lying about their income. Her down lines probably just think Jamie is an isolated case that needs a boost to cross the finish line.

    I heard Jamie reference actual sales once with the comment about selling mascaras. But clearly, selling to a non MK person is irrelevant. How does MK continue with this evidence out there? Is the FTC bribed by Mary Kay?

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      1. NayMKWay

        I haven’t had direct training, but I’ve picked up a few things in my too-many decades taking up oxygen on this planet, and here are my thoughts:

        1. Dry-eyed “crying.” She keeps sniffling, but where is the water coming from? When you cry (you know, for real), your nose runs because your tear ducts are flowing freely, and not all of the tears run down your cheeks. But some of them do. Her eyes were completely dry, as far as I could tell in the low-res video. She wiped her cheeks (once that I saw; couldn’t get through the whole thing), but they didn’t look the least bit wet.

        I saw a crime documentary (Forensic Files) where a “bereaved” husband was shown wailing over his deceased wife, trying to act like he hadn’t killed her. One of the cops gave his retrospective, saying, “He made a lot of crying noises, but I didn’t see any tears. He even dug his fingers into his eyes trying to make them water, but they stayed dry.”

        I didn’t mean to get all macabre, but beware of dry-eyed “crying,” is all I’m saying.

        2. Her random giggling. A lot of people giggle a bit when they’re trying to hide something. Or they’ll smile, then try to suppress it. I’ve seen it a lot on YouTube videos made by scammers pushing some Ponzi/pyramid scheme. It’s usually two guys—we’ll call them Ted and Fred—on stage talking to each other with some BS chart or something on a giant screen behind them.

        Ted (waving at the chart): “We’re seeing incredible returns, and every trade is posted online in real time for everyone to follow, right Fred?”

        Fred: “It sure is, Ted.” (laughs)

        Why the laughter? Because Fred knows he’s lying, and the “real time” trade results are fraudulent. Now, I’m not claiming Jamie is flat-out lying, just that she knows that what she’s saying isn’t the whole truth. As much as she admits, there’s more she’s trying not to say.

        I hope an expert in detecting lies swings by and weighs in. I’d love to hear from a professional.

        Paging Judge Judy…

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        1. TRACY

          The laughing is a nervous reaction. People have nervous things that they do when they’re being deceptive. One action alone isn’t indicative of deception, but I can assure you there are multiple actions in this video.

        2. Char

          This book has been in my Amazon cart for a few years, but I haven’t purchased it yet: “Spy the Lie”. I think I saw an interview once upon a time and was intrigued.

          “Wouldn’t it be great if we could bottle the collective wisdom of CIA officers who have interrogated hundreds of people, and apply all that experience to situations where we need to know if someone is telling the truth? In Spy the Lie, three CIA veterans have done just that. If you read this book, which is packed with great anecdotes, you will feel closer to being able to flesh out a lie.” ―Forbes

    1. Mountaineer95

      “people are strongly motivated to be a part of something bigger than them”

      Yes, they are, and with dire consequences. In the case of MK, those consequences are mostly financial. Hey, you’re welcome here, you’re part of the “big girl panties club” now! Except your membership will cost you. It will cost you whatever money you have, and whatever credit you CAN have. Then when you want out (for reasons, all of which are GOOD), you’re no longer welcome here. It’s like you never even existed.

  4. morningstar

    Now this makes sense! They buy NSD and directorship under a super hyper NSD in place. In the 1990’s a new Colorado director had a debut and her husband was a banker. They took out a 50K loan I found out, while I was at her celebration picnic. Yes, I paid admission to her debut for the knosh. Fast forward to today and PT post; an ah ha moment. Still learning here……

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  5. DonewithMK666

    So I’m wondering is there a way to report this to the FTC? Because MARY KAY has been getting away with this practice for far too long and it really needs to come to an end class I feel like since she admitted to cheating Mary Kay should not appoint her to physician of NSD! Maybe there’s a way to send this video to Laura Beitner in the legal department so she can see that yes people really do hoard products to get to a position!!!!

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    1. TRACY

      Laura Beitler isn’t in the legal department anymore, and wouldn’t have cared anyway. The legal department doesn’t actually care about anything other than making the company appear that it is not a pyramid scheme.

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  6. Enorth

    The spending isn’t over. They’ll be expected to attend Jamie’s debut in Nashville and they’ll pay for that, too. Event ticket, plane fare, hotel, meals, gift for Jamie…

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    1. AnonyMouse

      I’m kind of hoping that Corporate doesn’t put her through. I’m kind of hoping they see this abomination of a video and realize how bad the optics are for them and hold her back and make her do NSDIQ over again after a waiting period. Because outright stating that women in your units moved thousands and thousands of dollars in product without making any profit off of it is extremely problematic. If that’s what you had to do in order to push everything across the finish line then you don’t deserve to have those women spend MORE money to come to your party. You don’t deserve a damn party. If doing things the “right” way is so important to corporate, they will take a lesson from this and make some changes.

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  7. Misscapulet

    During my very brief time in Mary Kay, my recruiter asked me to stretch “Just another $250” to help us become a Cadillac Unit (or something like that).
    Me: Do I get a car?
    KBOT: No but Pink Queen will and we can take pride in this achievement.
    Me: What achievement? Getting me to spend my money? I’m confused.
    KBOT: No, that’s not what I mean. We’d be helping another woman reach her goal.
    Me: I wouldn’t donate $250 towards a car for a family member, much less a stranger.
    KBOT: babbled about being a team player.

    I was in a little bit longer and probably only lost $500 total. This conversation definitely soured me and got me out before I was fogged.

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          1. DonewithMK666

            I am surprised that since the company eavesdrops on this site that they haven’t already started to investigate her claims that she made on her video. I really wish they would disqualify her from NSD but goodness knows they don’t have the nerve to do it!!!

            1. TRACY

              It’s such a quandry for them! They need NSDs to keep the charade going. A young one like Jamie would inspire so many young women to spend thousands on their credit cards.

              On the other hand, they have to pretend to have standards. They have to pretend to frown up on cheating.

              1. Char

                It surprises me sometimes when a comment is posted that suggests someone be reported to Mary Kay Corp.. I ’m thinking in my head, Mary Kay’s whole business model is to get affiliates to order as much product as possible direct from them, so why would they want to put a stop to it? Why would they care how orders are placed?

                You’re right, they have to weigh their battles to give the illusion they are legit – to keep their consultants as customers. 😉

                I also think that with some people there is still a disconnect, wanting to believe the company itself is good, but the consultant part isn’t. I’m not sure I understand that, as the company is steering the ship. I do understand that the encouragement to report is meant with the best intentions though.

                1. DonewithMK666

                  It’s not that I believe the company is good because after being in it for 20 years I understand that it is not. However going with your example the company terminated Jim Cundiff the “ King of sales“ for many years for selling tens of thousands of dollars of product on EBay. It was very odd that Mary Kay chose to use him as a sacrificial scapegoat to prove a point Since he was ordering so much product from the company and making them money in that manner. My thought process is that they should do the same thing in this instance to maintain face if you will.

                  1. Char

                    “the company terminated Jim Cundiff the “ King of sales“ for many years for selling tens of thousands of dollars of product on EBay. It was very odd that Mary Kay chose to use him as a sacrificial scapegoat to prove a point Since he was ordering so much product from the company and making them money in that manner.” —

                    Sincere question: One person making them some money compared to what?

                    Imagine if every one of those eBay dead-end customers became consultomers ordering directly from MK – finding more consultomers. That is MK’s objective. They want the emotion and loyalty attached to ordering.

                    If every consultant tried to sell on eBay, their whole direct ordering business model would go kaput. They don’t want one person reselling thousands where he can make a profit; rather, they want thousands ordering direct, placing thousand dollar orders, so THEY can make a profit. Hopefully, these same people will find others placing thousand dollar orders, and stick around for years upon years waiting for the dream.

                    If all consultants were permitted to sell on eBay, there would be millions of listings. The price would drop to pennies on the dollar, and it would be a bigger mess than it is with 80k listings. There is no limit to the amount of consultants, it’s MLM.

                    Consultants asking other consultants to order direct vs. reselling on eBay is apples and oranges to Mary Kay IMO. It’s not about sales by the consultants, as MK are in the business of MLM dream selling. They know their products can’t compete on the open market at MSRP, and without an opportunity attached. The fewer on eBay the better, and hence I don’t blame them. It’s better for their MLM scam business.

                    The fact that they terminated a reseller just proves that Mary Kay, at its core, isn’t about reselling products. It’s about dream selling, but dream selling by itself is not allowed. Enter products to launder the money. Since that’s their role, the products don’t need to be the best quality or competitively priced. MLM sucks.

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                    1. Mountaineer95

                      “There is no limit to the amount of consultants, it’s MLM.”

                      That’s the most important aspect IMO. There are no limits to your competition; if you don’t recruit your customers (because you’re just selling and not recruiting lol) then SOMEBODY ELSE WILL because if you don’t recruit them, you’re not “sharing the opportunity “. So even if you want to “just sell” for a few extra dollars a month, your buyers are ALWAYS targets for everyone around you. Share the opportunity or you’re not supporting women!!

                2. Blue

                  You’re right, but you’d think they would care very much since the FTC is dropping the hammer on network marketing co.’s that don’t follow the rules. Particularly in the case where everyone is a distributor and there are no customers (ex. the $30 starter kit).

            2. BestDecision

              My Senior has been in over 20 years. She made a huge deal over picking up her Cadillac, but she’s already making payments on it. Last month, she didn’t even do $14,000 wholesale in production. She calls herself a “millionaire”, but she’s never even done the Top Director Trip. Her average gross commissions over the entire time she’s been in MK averages about $19/hour with no benefits whatsoever. She has lied to so many people and uses the word “God” way too often for my comfort level. She belittles admirable careers like teaching and nursing and says they don’t make as much money as she does, yet her average over the course of her years in MK is way LESS THAN A NEW GRADUATE NURSE.

              The greatest gift MK to do for itself is to abide by the Golden Rule and treat consumers and the leftover sales force fairly. Terminate the cheaters, reward retail sales MORE THAN recruiting, and spend energy and attention on the NSDs that aren’t full of themselves and flaunting fake wealth.

              Until then, I have no respect for MK Inc. They’ve let us all down and have lost any chance we’d ever come back.

  8. Ruby Slippers

    Tried to watch the video again. It’s removed as the YouTuber “Jamie” closed the account.
    I’ve been watching to see if she has been promoted. Month end closes out this Tuesday or Wednesday.

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