Facts, opinions, and the real story behind Mary Kay Cosmetics.
 

No Means No

TLDR: no one can make you do what you don’t want to do as an adult be an adult and use your words.

I’m still in MK. I know that there are IBC’s who are horrible people and do force their team mates to buy more product than that can handle. But this ranting commenter is right. No one should be able to force you to do something you don’t want to do.

When I was first recruited I was asked if I wanted inventory. I said no I don’t have enough money for it. My director said that was fine but having things on hand does help. And that was that. I’ve been placing orders and just delivering them to clients or just sending what they ordered right to their house.

If you let someone force you in to buying so much product you can’t move then that’s on you. Your director can’t “fire you” or “punish you”.

If you are recruited go right to Mary Kay University (the training) and watch ALL of the Law stuff they have. It tells you what you as a consultant can and can’t do and even what directors can and can’t do. So, if you find yourself talking with a director and they’re attempting make you buy more than you’re comfortable with do the following- take screen shots of any messages, record conversations (look at your state laws as some states are two party consent), save emails and when you have enough proof agains this horrible director REPORT THEM TO CORPORATE!!!

Then asked to be moved to another unit. There may be other units in the area you can be apart of that actually follow company guide lines.

While I’m not a Mary Kay millionaire- Mary Kay has help me quite a bit. I’m not rich and successful but I am gaining social skills and other entrepreneurial skills that I don’t feel I could’ve gained any other way. I’m 23 and still socially awkward in some sense but ever since joining Mary Kay I have actually kind of grown out of that and I’m still growing out of that social awkwardness.

No Mary Kay isn’t a terrible company it’s just that some people who are signed up with the company are terrible people themselves and sully the name. Because keep in mind it doesn’t matter what job you have with her is an independent position doing whatever it maybe or a regular 9-to-5 there’s always gonna be somebody that you work with that is going to make your job a terrible. They’re going to ruin the experience for you and essentially you’re going to hate that job and probably even blame the company for not even firing that person despite all the crazy shit that they’ve done to you and other people.

While I understand the Mary Kay is not exactly a perfect company this very amped up ranter Is correct when she says that no one can really make you do something that you don’t want to do. Because being a grown adult means that you need to have the mindset to say no to another person if you can’t say no to another person even as an adult you’re going to find yourself in some hard spots it doesn’t matter whether you’re working a business of your own that’s not Mary Kay or something else you’re going to find yourself in a hard spot. You need to be able to look someone in the eye and say that’s not what I wanna do, it’s not what I’m comfortable with, I don’t have the financial means to do all that crazy shit Yada yada yada whatever the excuse might be. Because as a grown adult nobody should be able to make you financially ruin yourself.

And this isn’t just about Mary Kay either this is about other independent positions like with Avon in Tupperware and it works and other companies that have similar positions. Besides being a Mary Kay agent I also do health and life and property and casualty insurance that’s where my main income comes from but I recognize that if it anytime my up line or my manager tells me something that I’m not comfortable with I have the smarts to say oh this is not something I want to do or I can’t do that at this time.

My whole roundabout point is is that when somebody asks you to do something that you’re not comfortable with you need to have the mindset to say I’m sorry but I can’t do that use your words don’t sit there and let them threaten you because it doesn’t matter what company you’re a part of they more than likely can’t do anything to you. And not something that I’ve had pounded into my head over and over again as a young adult I can make my own decisions but I can’t let somebody else try and make decisions for me I have to be able to use my words and communicate in an effective manner so people understand where I’m coming from so they won’t ask me again.

We all know that no means no. So make sure people understand that. Not matter where you work, you need to be an effective communicator and stick to your guns so people know you say what you mean and you mean what you say. Because for people with high social intelligence the slightest bit of doubt they’ll just keep doing what they do you need to be strong and what you say.

23 Comments

  1. Popinki

    Meanwhile, back in the real world… (yeah, I had all the answers when I was 23, too.) I wound up on this site because my cousin and I were warm harassed by a MK lady at a restaurant. Both of us were saying “NO” quite clearly and directly and she didn’t let up even after I got borderline nasty. Her husband had to nearly drag her out.

    I think it’s safe to say the former red jackets (like the one who owns this site) and the former directors and former consultants and former NSD-trackers all had that same training, which to this outsider seems to consist of a whole lot of “never take no for an answer.” All the scripts for overcoming any kind of objection with a mixture of flattery, shame, and wearing you down by keeping at you and at you and at you.

    Your director didn’t hassle you when you said you didn’t want inventory. Good for you and good for her. However, your experience doesn’t invalidate those of the others whose directors hassled them until they placed and order to shut them up. The training might say “report her to Corporate” but face it: if you’re not buying inventory, you mean nothing to MKorporate. Their money is made off inventory orders by consultants; they don’t track retail sales to customers. You put nothing into the pockets of your director’s upline and your small occasional orders are spit in the ocean to Corporate. Maybe they’ll transfer you to another unit to take your chances with another director (possibly one who’s way more pushy) and you’ll come in with the reputation of being “negative” and a troublemaker.

    Yes, you will always have coworkers you can’t stand. It’s a fact of life and you have to deal. In a real company, there is HR or upper management to theoretically protect you from abuses of power, but guess what: they don’t always do their job. In fact they sometimes contribute to the abuse or wind up punishing YOU for what someone else did.

    Finally, what you’re saying is victim blaming pure and simple. “It’s YOUR fault you wound up with thousands of $$$ worth of stuff you can’t sell because YOU didn’t just Say No to Drugs… I mean inventory!” And that’s bad, m’kay?

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    1. NayMKWay

      ” ‘No’ just means ‘I need more information.’ ”

      ☝️ That’s an example of Mary Kay’s “training,” and speaks to why the warm-chatting harassment went on and on in that restaurant, Popinki.

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      1. Popinki

        Yes, I found that out after I landed here and started reading. And we weren’t her only victims. According to the waitress the manager had had to tell her to leave the staff alone. That made me madder than anything else, because when you depend on tips you can’t just tell someone to take a flying leap.

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  2. Frosty Rose

    Sure, you can report your director to corporate. But they don’t care. They’re not going to move you to another unit, they just won’t do it. Because… they don’t care!

    Source: I tried several times to leave an incompetent and unethical director who I believe actively worked to keep me out of directorship. My option when I spoke to other directors and even corporate? You’re welcome to sit out for a year and your agreement will terminate. Then you can rejoin in a different unit.

    I would love to hear from anyone who successfully got assigned to a different unit, barring the death of your director.

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  3. morningstar

    What is this all about? Ladies this is cosmetics purchase. Making things complicated, dissonance is too much. This one is drunk on the MK koolaid. It shows how the mind tries to rationalize the fact MK is selling to you. It is up to you to sell it or do as you like with the product.
    This 23 yr old could go out and get a job to assist with social pressures. Being in MK will only add to pressure.

    23 and so much more…..

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  4. Data Junkie

    “When I was first recruited I was asked if I wanted inventory. I said no I don’t have enough money for it.”

    BS. She can’t order product at a discount without spending at least $250 ($225 +retail tax on $450) every quarter, or approx. $1000/year just to be eligible to sell with a margin and be eligible for commissions from down-line sales. If she does order without the discount, she must sell above full MK retail to turn a profit. Good luck with that!

    So, she’s been at this for 2-3 years, which means, if she’s remained active and eligible throughout, she’s spent at least ~$2000-3000 on inventory she claims she did not purchase, and was not “forced” to purchase. If she’s like most MK consultants, she’s buying much, much more than she’s selling.

    She can still go inactive and sell, but then she still needs to spend ~$250 every time she purchases in order to go “active” again. So much for ordering only what your customers want. One lipstick? Either a $250 order, or you sell that lipstick with no profit.

    It may be true that she is not “forced” to spend that kind of money…but she absolutely must spend at least that much if she wants to be eligible for profits.

    Bottom line: Mary Kay requires every active consultant to spend at least $1000/year. But don’t worry, you are not “forced” to spend that money. You just go inactive and lose eligibility if you don’t!

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  5. Popinki

    Thanks for pointing that out. I didn’t know how the system worked.

    Quit lying, Kaybots. Sooner or later someone will catch you out in it and what negligible credibility you have will go right down the drain. You’re insisting that 2+2=5 to a roomful of math teachers.

    1. Enorth

      The MLM company ALWAYS gets its money first. The rep must order a minimum amount each month or quarter to “qualify” to collect commissions (if any). Pay to play.

      My EO-selling relative must order a minimum of around $130 (+shipping and tax) each month to qualify for commissions. I think her only customers are herself and her parents. The house is loaded with products and she gives many away to “help” people with their health. Sigh.

      1. Data Junkie

        And those qualifying minimums are always more than any individual has any hope of using or selling. Hence the term, “garage qualified.”

        It is arbitrary to do that if the MLM was really trying to retail the products through their reps. The qualifying minimums make it clear MK’s primary goal is to soak the consultant for as long as the consultant is willing to tolerate it. Seminar is a great distraction to delay the inevitable.

        Many MLMs make it easier to meet minimums by setting the rep up for auto-ship, to guarantee the rep is always “qualified.” Amway and Juice Plus use this technique.

        Look at this gem from the Juice Plus Aus website. If you fall behind on auto-ship payments, you can’t cancel Auto-Ship! You must be paid in full before you can cancel auto-ship. What does that tell ya!

        “Cancellation Policy

        You may cancel your Juice Plus+® re-shipments at anytime after your previous shipment has been paid in full. Just call xxxxxxx or email at us at JPSupportAU@juiceplus.com.”

        1. Enorth

          Another reason why MLMs keep expanding their product lines.

          Can’t possibly need more essential oils? No problem! Just order our toothpaste, face cream, shampoo and laundry detergent.

          Be a product of the product.

  6. Not a Bot

    They can’t force you to do something, but you can be manipulated, pressured, and lied to. They can tell you the product will sell itself, you will earn your money back, having product on hand will be good for sales, etc. They can tell you how much money they make (while totally fudging the numbers) to deceive new recruits. They have scripts with the purpose to manipulate people to go against their better instincts and place that big order or sign up for MK.

  7. Destiny Angel

    I’m still in MK. I know that there are IBC’s who are horrible people and do force their team mates to buy more product than that can handle. But this ranting commenter is right. No one should be able to force you to do something you don’t want to do.

    So, from the start our new Critic admits that there are faults in the system. Isn’t that very telling?

    When I was first recruited I was asked if I wanted inventory. I said no I don’t have enough money for it. My director said that was fine but having things on hand does help. And that was that. I’ve been placing orders and just delivering them to clients or just sending what they ordered right to their house.

    This is covered by Data Junkie but basically, yes you need to buy something up-front before you can start earning a pitiful profit.

    If you let someone force you in to buying so much product you can’t move then that’s on you. Your director can’t “fire you” or “punish you”.

    If only that was true. But seasoned anti-MLMers have seen that up-lines DO NOT use force to persuade their down-lines to buy excess products. Instead, they use coded language to sucker people into buying an extra item/an extra $100/ another fake customer.. “We need to push for that Caddy this quarter”, “We just have to be in the Queen’s Court” etc..
    Maybe your director can’t fire you directly, but they can punish you. If or rather when , you find yourself unable to finagle the money or credit card space she needs, be prepared to find yourself holding the chicken of despair or being the IBC who finds out last about the new product lines or not being invited to the launch of another new IBC or the Car Pick-Up production.

    If you are recruited go right to Mary Kay University (the training) and watch ALL of the Law stuff they have. It tells you what you as a consultant can and can’t do and even what directors can and can’t do. So, if you find yourself talking with a director and they’re attempting make you buy more than you’re comfortable with do the following- take screen shots of any messages, record conversations (look at your state laws as some states are two party consent), save emails and when you have enough proof agains (sic) this horrible director REPORT THEM TO CORPORATE!!!

    See Frosty Rose’s answer but corporate doesn’t care because both of you are easily replaceable.

    Then asked to be moved to another unit. There may be other units in the area you can be apart of that actually follow company guide lines.

    Ah yes, another down-line who are going to see you as a grass and you’ve already started off on a bad foot with them.

    While I’m not a Mary Kay millionaire- Mary Kay has help me quite a bit. I’m not rich and successful but I am gaining social skills and other entrepreneurial skills that I don’t feel I could’ve gained any other way.

    Oh you could but it requires real effort. And you will never be a MK millionaire because the system is stacked up against you.

    I’m 23 and still socially awkward in some sense but ever since joining Mary Kay I have actually kind of grown out of that and I’m still growing out of that social awkwardness.

    Welcome to the first years of your adulthood. Between 18 and 24 is when a person finally finishes growing up. And some of us never grow out of some degree of social awkwardness but that isn’t a big problem.

    No Mary Kay isn’t a terrible company it’s just that some people who are signed up with the company are terrible people themselves and sully the name.

    Yes it is and yes there are. And they are those who have had the wool pulled over their eyes who are happy enough not to look behind the curtain Toto is pulling aside.

    Because keep in mind it doesn’t matter what job you have with her is an independent position doing whatever it maybe or a regular 9-to-5 there’s always gonna be somebody that you work with that is going to make your job a terrible.

    This is true.

    They’re going to ruin the experience for you and essentially you’re going to hate that job and probably even blame the company for not even firing that person despite all the crazy shit that they’ve done to you and other people.

    When I was 19, I had a job that I hated because I wasn’t mature enough to realise it was on me. It gave me a lot of practical skills that I could leverage into a position which played to my skills and passions. It was a me thing and not a Manager is crap thing.

    While I understand the Mary Kay is not exactly a perfect company this very amped up ranter Is correct when she says that no one can really make you do something that you don’t want to do.

    Peer pressure doesn’t stop when you leave high school, sorry.

    Because being a grown adult means that you need to have the mindset to say no to another person if you can’t say no to another person even as an adult you’re going to find yourself in some hard spots it doesn’t matter whether you’re working a business of your own that’s not Mary Kay or something else you’re going to find yourself in a hard spot.

    See peer pressure.

    You need to be able to look someone in the eye and say that’s not what I wanna do, it’s not what I’m comfortable with, I don’t have the financial means to do all that crazy shit Yada yada yada whatever the excuse might be. Because as a grown adult nobody should be able to make you financially ruin yourself.

    Welcome to Make A Way, Find A Way. Welcome to the Husband Unawareness Plan. Welcome to Open A MK Credit Card. Welcome to the MK version of the Chinese water torture…drip, drip, drip.. just one item, just $100, just one fake IBC.. It’s all good at the end of the day.

    And this isn’t just about Mary Kay either this is about other independent positions like with Avon in Tupperware and it works and other companies that have similar positions.

    Well done, you can recognise MLM companies..

    Besides being a Mary Kay agent I also do health and life and property and casualty insurance that’s where my main income comes from but I recognize that if it anytime my up line or my manager tells me something that I’m not comfortable with I have the smarts to say oh this is not something I want to do or I can’t do that at this time.

    So you are not trying to make money with MK because you already have a corporate job or possibly another MLM, Primerica.
    Oh and , when your manager tells you to do something, they do not accept “oh this is not something I want to do or I can’t do that at this time” or else it’s bye bye job or being put under review . That’s the nature of some corporate jobs. You have to do what your job description is.

    My whole roundabout point is is that when somebody asks you to do something that you’re not comfortable with you need to have the mindset to say I’m sorry but I can’t do that use your words don’t sit there and let them threaten you because it doesn’t matter what company you’re a part of they more than likely can’t do anything to you.

    You are a mere Peon, the company doesn’t care about your brave stand against the man. Make too many waves and you are the impression of a hand in a bucket of water.

    And not something that I’ve had pounded into my head over and over again as a young adult I can make my own decisions but I can’t let somebody else try and make decisions for me I have to be able to use my words and communicate in an effective manner so people understand where I’m coming from so they won’t ask me again.

    Yes, you can make decisions and stick by them. But at the end of the day, you are governed by Corporate America, Corporate Canada, Corporate UK etc. They know how to get rid of you if or when they want to. At Will laws, the MKbot who pulled down a political sign on private property, the Lularoe hun who called the police on children in the local pool or the MKBot with a long history of defrauding banks and car dealerships.

    We all know that no means no. So make sure people understand that. Not matter where you work, you need to be an effective communicator and stick to your guns so people know you say what you mean and you mean what you say. Because for people with high social intelligence the slightest bit of doubt they’ll just keep doing what they do you need to be strong and what you say.

    And yet, once you step out of line, you will be sent to Coventry and eased out of the company once you have fulfilled your only use, milked dry to provide more money to MKCorporate.

      1. Destiny Angel

        It’s what my sister in law’s friend called the rubber chicken she had to hold at her MLM company meeting as a punishment because she kept “being disruptive” by “asking too many inappropriate questions”.

        It was just before she left the company so I guess I know what kinds of questions she was asking.

      2. NayMKWay

        In Mary Kay, it’s often a stuffed skunk you’re supposed to hold to shame you for your “stinkin’ thinkin’.” I.e., being too negative (whether by complaining or by challenging the corporate line).

        Part of me would love to be given the [Item] of Shame, just so I could tell the leader—in front of everyone—where they could stick their [Item].

  8. Emmapeelfan

    I did say no like a grown-up. I was an IBC for a short time. I went to all the meetings. Brought the occasional guest, and learned to do make-up. But I was coming off a Chapter 7 and had/still have an enormous fear of debt. I refused go into debt if I wasn’t sure that I could sell the stuff. I offered to take orders, like they did at Avon. I was promptly shunned. I didn’t give in and was quietly shown the door.

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