http://www.pinktruth.com

A college student critiques Pink Truth. And I just have to say that if one has to buy friends for $100, and Mary Kay is their only way to do so, they've got more problems than we can help them with at Pink Truth...

First let me say, if you really are dedicated to your site you will read this entire email.

I am a college Junior, who due to political policies put forth by socialistic bureaucrats I pay more in tuition that normal people make in a year.  For this reason I find your website bias and appalling. There are not opportunities like Mary Kay available for people like me, who take 18 credit hours, dance on a university dance team, and work at a competitive internship to find a part-time job that I can work around my schedule.  

The comments you make on you site are your perceptions, from your point of view from which you created a negative Mary Kay bashing website.  I would guess it is pretty successful, most likely because other women like you would rather complain about the problems in the world then  work to make their own self better.  

I'm sure you see your campaign as helpful, "seeking the truth and justice for those who are wronged" ... by women selling make-up?, but I wanted you to know that what Mary Kay women do is important as well.  It might sound tacky but the "cult" you talk about on your site, is actually some women's only source of friendship and support.  Yes, they did "purchase" those friends, but ask some of the lonely, bitter women who post on your site if for $100 they would pass up an opportunity to be surrounded by supportive, positive women for once in their lives, my guess is they would say YES!

I personally fell in love with the idea of Mary Kay when I saw a way to help pre-teen and teenage girls to find their self-esteem.  I don't bring any make up, or look books, I only bring the Velocity Skin Care line, which I personally know to have helped with my acne and mascara.  I teach the girls in fun way, what the point of make-up really is and that is to feel the best you can in your own skin.  Yes, the mothers are there and believe me when they see their daughters happy and confident with nothing more than mascara on their face they sign right up.  You may think I'm taking advantage of these women, this is where we disagree.  I will be graduating this year with only half the debt I would have had originally due to Mary Kay, and I've helped girls avoid at least a little of the awkwardness that middle school and high school has to offer.

This is LIFE, its real and people get taken advantage of, people are liars, cheaters, scum bags. etc.  But for you to put a name to people like that, boosting that Mary Kay is only filled with women like this, is not only a lie, but a disservice to women everywhere who may have found just what they were looking for within this organization.... a little extra cash, a positive atmosphere and great knowledge that unlike you, their lives don't revolve around tearing people down, but building them up.

I hope you do take the time to read this and think about what I have said.  I would imagine you get emails of this nature all the time, but if you are truly dedicated to your fight than you might think about it from both sides.  If you don't, than you really are another small minded, bitter women, with way too much time on you hands.  Go get a facial... you really will feel better!  I swear :)

Comments

Search

havurah   |2009-03-13 06:43:52 This is LIFE, its real and people get taken advantage of, people are liars, cheaters, scum bags. etc. We know. We just heard from a generous samaritan who professes to counsel girls and younger women. She wants to increase their self esteem; so she does makeovers with products she sells and gets their mothers to buy the makeup or to sign up to sell the products under her. If these poor girls have mothers, why do they need this person? The self righteousness and self importance of this capitalist pisher is very amusing. Tracy, we need more laughs like this one.

raisinberry   |2009-03-13 06:45:25 She said," I would guess it is pretty successful, most likely because other women like you would rather complain about the problems in the world then work to make their own self better." My dear, both leaving Mary Kay and participating on Pink Truth does exactly what you are requesting. We have improved our lives and we are attempting to make the world better. Mary Kay is a legal product based pyramid that witholds all the facts about the realities and outcomes of "doing" the business. If you knew today how many women in a 30 mile radius were consultants, have excessive inventory, or used to be consultants, now recovering from debt, you would think twice about joining. 98% will try and try and try and wonder whats wrong with them, all the while the upline rejoices. You are welcome.

nomoremlm4me   |2009-03-13 07:33:54 Oh, my word, her English teachers should all be shot. How did they let this girl pass on to the next grade/year with such atrocious writing?!? It's very hard to even read this!

fantasygirl   |2009-03-13 07:49:29 Wow all of this coming from a college jr who has had so much life experience that she feels she should come on to PT and tell everyone they are nothing but a bunch of complainers. She has a long way too go and if she continues to go thru life thinking that people are liars, cheaters, scum bags and get taken advantage of everyday she's not going to get very far. Talk about a negative atttitude. I guess if she thinks these types of things are okay than MK will surely fit her lifestyle. Why not just quit her expensive college life and go right into DIQ? As usual she has missed the entire point of this website.

pinkylee   |2009-03-13 08:09:16 Honey -- first of all, you aren't helping anyone by teaching tweens and teens how to sink into debt. Next point, stay in school as long as you possibly can; and please, please throw in a few grammar classes. I did not read through your entire diatribe b/c, well, it was just so unreadable. Next time -- in English, please!!  "I only bring the Velocity Skin Care line, which I personally know to have helped with my acne and mascara" What the ---- does this mean??? How does Velocity help you with your mascara?

PinkApostate   |2009-03-13 08:16:48 A college junior who writes at the ninth grade level, and whose post required a minimum of sixteen grammar and punctuation corrections should be careful of criticizing anything or anyone. I will assume that this poster is not planning to attain success in her chosen career field with her lack of writing skills. There is a MK-ish happy thought in this post though. Velocity is marketed for the pre-teen and teen crowd so Ms. Thing is possibly one of the very few IBC’s who truly are on-target with her education level and the group she aspires to solicit. P.S. My response scores an 11.6 on the Flesch-Kincaid-it’s much too early to put forth more effort.

notta_nother_consultant   |2009-03-13 08:28:40 Wow!All I can say is WOW! It is apparent that she has not read anyones stories on this site. How can she assume everything she's written? I find it sad that she is one of those people who are working on the "Next Generation" of recruits. My first SD was doing the same thing. Her step daughter is counting the days until she can sign! I'm sorry you're so brainwashed. Sorry you're already so sucked in you can't see the blue skies behind the pink clouds!

Queen of Section 2   |2009-03-13 09:03:42 I think it's important to note that if skin care and mascara is what tweenies are looking for, then they don't have to go any further than a department store. My point being, they are paying too much for a mediocre product. Also, this sales person knows that. She has a whole array of product and she has specifically targeted a market she knows will be more successful manipulating her true target market's wallet than she'll ever will be. Those kids are nothing but conduits to aid her in fulfilling her agenda. If anybody ever wondered why, there ya go. She "completes" us. ;D

vintagegold   |2009-03-13 09:03:45 I really do agree with her that you can make some part time cash with Mary Kay. The problem is with the Directors. There is so much pressure on them to "maintain" their units, that eventually they will try to get her to start ordering more and recruit her customers out from under her. Maybe her Director is one of the rare ones who try and work their business honestly. From my own research, I find that they are the ones with the most difficult times in Mary Kay. I don't think she has read Pinktruth enough to understand your points on here. More women's families are torn apart by Mary Kay than are helped. Women are taught to go into debt to "help the unit" and lie to their husbands about it: The "Husband Unawareness Plan". These women on Pinktruth are trying to save people's lives from financial ruin and heartache and when a consultant on here posts a story about actually doing well in Mary Kay, she is congratulated for doing her business the right way and given warnings about what to watch out for.

Queen of Section 2   |2009-03-13 09:06:10 ...than she ever will be. Gawd.

tophat   |2009-03-13 09:12:19 Reading something as poorly composed as this makes me fear for the future. If she is truly spending as much on her education as she says she is, she is not getting her money's worth.

Out of the Pink   |2009-03-13 09:17:33 I fail to see how selling cosmetics to girls who already have low self esteem is helping them in any way. How are you any different from the countless skincare/cosmetics companies that bombard girls with messages that they aren't good/smart/pretty enough unless they use a certain product? You challenged us to read through the entirety your letter and I did, but your grandiose assumption that we don't care about Pink Truth unless we read your particular letter is preposterous. We don't have to read a letter from a college junior who really shouldn't have passed English 101 to care about Pink Truth.

workedpink   |2009-03-13 11:18:44 > I really want this "college junior" to spend more time in the writing lab and less time doing "skincare" before she EVER again attempts to call someone out over something. Her point is moot due to her grammar and usage. I suppose the dining hall no longer hires?

chopportunity   |2009-03-13 11:19:49 I had high hopes for this one but once again was disappointed. I really wish someone could address us in another manner than the bitter, lazy woman failure one that they all seem to use. Also Ms. College Student, I am in my late 40's, I have been a student and have had vast life experiences and I was also a Sales Director with MK. Honey with all due respect you just have not lived long enough to completely grasp what you are talking about, nor have you had enough experience in MK. I once felt as you do about MK. Also I do not buy my friends. I did however lose most of the so called friends I had in MK when I decided to quit, sent back product and pursued something else. Strangely enough my real friends were there for me. The sisterhood thing touted in MK is not real. When you have to perform to maintain a relationship, you are in an abusive one. So if you are really interested in helping others, you will take the time to read our stories. And do yourself a favor, stay in school and graduate, you will need to find a real job to pay for your MK and to support yourself with.

mkfoolnomore   |2009-03-13 11:29:16 Ladies, I have a comment slightly off the topic ;D It seems like everyone who is critiquing this college student's grammar and writing skills is assuming this person is a native English speaker. I personally feel a little uncomfortable every time I read a comment about poor grammar, etc. However, I am not easily intimidated and have enough self esteem to continue posting my comments. English is the forth language that I speak. People have told me before that sometimes I have an interesting way expressing myself, but I just smile and don't mind at all to repeat or express myself choosing different words. My point is, please be a little more forgiving for those who are English grammar challenged, because I personally consider you my PT friends and truly hope I am not the only one who's English is not their language of origin.

harleymomm   |2009-03-13 11:33:04 I had to read the first sentence in the 2nd paragraph 3 times before I realized what she was saying. Anyone remember how to diagram sentences? That one might be fun...

selina   |2009-03-13 11:38:23 Hey, MK Fool no More What languages do you speak? My boyfriend speaks 12 languages!!!!!!

chopportunity   |2009-03-13 11:53:35 MKfoolnomore, thanks for sharing that. Although I do not speak any other language we make jokes in the South that English is our second language. I am a horrible speller, so I do not make comments on grammar or spelling. I also admire greatly those who have taken the time to learn other languages. Which ones do you speak? I once worked with a lady from Egypt and she spoke Arabic, French and English. She would often talk with her husband on the phone and get angry with him and revert to Arabic without even knowing it. She would then apologize to me for her language, she apparantly had used some colorful words, but I would say, honey it all sounded like Greek to me! Wow Selina, 12 languages that is remarkable. There are such interesting folks on PT. :o

180degrees   |2009-03-13 11:55:55 mkfoolnomore, I agree with you. We have no idea about this lady's background. If she had been less abrasive, I think that the responses would've been, too, though. I think that being polite on here is important, regardless. Maybe those who write us could be nicer, and we can try to be, too. college student, There's that old adage, "Walk a mile in someone else's shoes..." The point everyone is making on here is that you haven't. Take a walk in your closed-toed shoes through our stories when we were wearing those same shoes, and when we took them off. Listen to the facts and the feelings. There is a lot more to the ladies on here than you are attributing to them. You have only seen one side, where they have seen both. YOu asked this site to post your email, and we did. Now, I am asking you to make a tour of our site, noting the I-Stories of our ex-IBC's and ex-directors, in particular. Also, check out the details of the director's contract. These and other items will open up your eyes. If you do that, then it will show that you are dedicated to being fair to us, of whom you were less than complimentary. I, too, worked with teens, and helped them with their skincare, and talked to their moms. There was appreciation for the help that the kids received. The only problem is that doing something outwardly nice that ultimately leads another person into something harmful is not a giving thing. It is a taking one. You appear to not realize what the repercussions of being an IBC and director are, so that can be attributed to naivete or ignorance (in an innocent way), but to be responsible, you need to check into the truth of what MK really is. Please do that, then come back and tell us nicely about what you think. We welcome it!

mkfoolnomore   |2009-03-13 12:14:18 selina said: Quote: Hey, MK Fool no More What languages do you speak? My boyfriend speaks 12 languages!!!!!! Lithuanian is my native language, but I also speak Russian and German. German is a "weakest " of my all languages. I used to study it all the way through high school and also while living in Germany. However, since I moved to US (over 12 years ago) I focused on learning English. I joke that German skills are safely stored somewhere in my head's CPU.  What languages does your boyfriend speaks? It is very impressive! Is he learning them as a hobby or work?

The Scribbler   |2009-03-13 12:16:42 I won’t deny that women in Mary Kay don’t touch others by their actions. And I won’t deny that they can bring in some extra dough by selling the product. But a key factor I frequently notice in Mary Kay culture is that in Mary Kay, serving someone seems to always come with a price tag, be it a sale or a signed agreement. I’m not saying that people can’t provide a service and profit from it at the same time – that’s the nature of business. But in Mary Kay, "serving" is made out to be this selfless, God-fearing act - and yet I find myself asking, "Is there ever an instance where “Serve others” means “Leave the marketing CDs at home?” Reminds me of the director who told of her trips to the local cancer ward to do Satin Hands on the patients – which would have been admirable until you get to her deal-breaker statement of, “Some days I get leads, other days I get none.” Want to hear a nifty story that puts the whole serving thing into perspective? My friend "Donna" was in the dollar store and ready to check out when she couldn’t help but notice the depressed demeanor of the cashier. When Donna asked the woman how her day was going, the woman stopped ringing up Donna’s purchases and fell silent.  Tearfully, the cashier told her Donna that she was flying out to visit her cancer-stricken brother the next day. She wanted to see him a final time, as the docs had given him a week to live. Donna wasn’t sure what to do, but she felt led to pray for that cashier, right there in the checkout line. And she did, praying God would bring the cashier peace in her stormy situation. A couple of weeks passed and Donna went back to the dollar store. She was browsing the wares when a cheerful voice asked her how her day was going. Donna turned, and sure enough, it was the cashier she’d prayed with two weeks ago. “My brother made it,” she said through joyful tears. “The doctors operated on him, got it out, and he’s doing great! I’ll be on a bus tomorrow to see him again, only this time, I’m staying there. I am so glad I got to see you one more time before I left.” You will never convince me that how Donna served and how ESSD Deanna Spillman defines serving are one the same. ESSD Deanna Spillman says to “Get your mind off of yourself and onto helping others and you will go up!” One sentence later she adds, “Remember, this is a numbers game.” You don’t move up in Mary Kay by praying with others. You move up in Mary Kay by recruiting them. That says all I need to know about how Mary Kay's leaders define "serving."

Pax   |2009-03-13 12:34:00 At the end of my career my most favorite thing to do was go to the Durham Ronald McDonald House and do skin care classes there. I'm not sure who had more fun, me or the mothers with children in the hospital. I never once sold anything (didn't want to) and never tried to recruit anyone. I did however play the recruiting quiz game. It got to the point that the women were shouting answers at me and laughing out loud as I tossed candy at them. The first time I did this the staff came to see what the ruckus was all about and just stood in the doorway smiling and shaking their heads. That just be my best memory of MK.

chopportunity   |2009-03-13 12:34:39 Well put Scrib. I have similar feelings but struggle to put them into words. You did that so eloquently. I work with a ministry that reaches out to children and teens in difficult areas of our city. Our volunteers come out each Saturday to teach Bible study, do crafts and just spend time with the children and teens in that area. They do so without recognition, praise or compensation. Like your friend Donna they expect nothing in return. I also have the privilege of working with 13 volunteers each Tuesday afternoon who give a couple of hours of their time to tutor struggling students who attend a public school in a not so nice area of town. These children have made remarkable improvments this school year due to the dedication of these wonderful volunteers. I call these people my heros. When a person takes time out of their day and dares to reach out to someone in an effort to improve the life of that person without expecting anything in return demonstrates true service. Thanks Scrib for making that so clear. It is one of the reasons I had trouble sleeping at night while in MK. I knew that I was not serving anyone, yet I was one of those that talked about MK as an opportunity to minister, knowing it would hit someone's hot button. I did that to profit, not to improve their life. Not proud of it, but it is true none the less.

coppermine   |2009-03-13 13:07:43 What about women in Mk who read your site, and and NOT Kaybots! There ARE women who know the score and are doing MK the right way for reasons like this writer. So let the tomatoes fly - I am glad to hear all opinions- that is what our country is about or used to be, and many of us still want to keep it that way. Mary Kay to me has NEVER been about making money. I am grateful to all who post here. G'day!

pinkladynomore   |2009-03-13 13:31:30 I can't wait till this junior quits Mary Kay. Once she does those so called friends will disappear. I no longer talk to or hear from my recruiter or my SD. In fact I got a phone call a day after I buried my mother to ask me for a $600 order. Her words to me "I know you just lost your mother, but could you put in a $600 order." Yes, the women in MK are all heart. Another thing she kept doing was telling me how unprofessional I was. "Oh, really!" Miss I am proud of the fact that I am late for everything! If I sound bitter it's because I am. We all knew when my SD'r birthday was. We all made a big fuss over her's. Well, I emailed her to let her no when my birthday was. You got it. Zippo! Notta! Zilch! So, you can say what you want about these people being your friends. Once you decide to quit they will disappear into the wide blue yonder. Everything in MK is so fake - from Mary Kay's airbrushed pictures to her wigs to her fake eyelashes. Everything! No matter how many times they tell you it is not a pyramid scheme - dont't believe them because it is a pyramid. Take everything they tell you with a grain of salt. Once you start asking too many questions you will be labeled a negative nelly and one of two things will happen you will be avoided like the plague or they will try and humiliate you in front of the group. It's their way of keeping you in line. Good luck! Cause you are going to need it.

What   |2009-03-13 13:31:58 Quote: You don’t move up in Mary Kay by praying with others. You move up in Mary Kay by recruiting them. That says all I need to know about how Mary Kay's leaders define "serving." and when a 'true' leader in MK figures this out, she is sick to her stomach and ashamed of her actions.   College girl and others like her really do not know who they're talking to on this site . . .

coppermine   |2009-03-13 13:46:54 Pinkladynomore-Others DO know what you are talking about and are grateful to all who are here healing and are warning potential victims. You are all beautiful and I wish you all the best. Your words are healing and empowering so many! Take care and thank you Tracey for PT- and I always liked blue better!

drea916   |2009-03-13 14:12:59 Mary Kay to me has NEVER been about making money. So, if it's not about making money, I should go be a girlscout leader instead. Right? If I want to go about doing good, then I'll go do it, and it won't require money for makeup/fancy clothes/sales aids. Doing charity-if I dole out money it will be to directly benefit someone. If I want to make money, I go into business. Bu$in$$ has three dollar signs in it.

wazpink   |2009-03-13 14:38:27 Think I will pass on buying "friends."

ILikeRedBetter   |2009-03-13 15:14:46 college junior: These are some quick tips for you to think about: 1. Stay in school! You should be studying the dictionary and your English book rather than MK scripts on how to manipulate 13 year olds. Please search your heart and find a real career that won't cause you to go into massive debt. 2. When you are typing something and a little colored line pops up underneath the word you just typed, that means it needs to be edited because of bad grammar and/or misspellings. 3. If you, or anyone else have to "buy" their friends please please please seek some advice from a pastor or a counselor to find out why you feel you are no worth being friends with without placing an order. 4. I find YOU appalling that you pray upon the mothers of insecure teens (who would probably do anything to see their daughter smile) so YOU can get a commission check. If you think that makeup from ANY cosmetic company will fix someone's self esteem problem, you have a lot more to learn in life. If you have self esteem problems, makeup will not fix that. It is only a band aid over the real problem. 5. Being so young, you should really look to those older than you, especially women on PT who are further down the path you are now traveling on. If MK was so wonderful, then why would there be so many women saying it isn't? Smart people learn from THEIR mistakes, the wise learn from other people's mistakes. 6. If you aren't even willing to read ALL of the stories on this site then why would expect us to read ALL of your letter? 7. I challenge you to read ALL, and I mean ALL of the heart breaking stories of the countless women on PT that have been changed financially and emotionally because of the godless acts of MK and not be affected. I challenge you to read their stories and not be appalled by the company you now boast is the savior of all poor college students. Lastly I hope you truly think about what it is we have said here about MK. Really.....think about it. Once you are a director and have been in MK long enough to form a valid opinion, then you can come back on PT and tell us how you still think MK is the best "career" in the world....until then I personally can't really take you seriously.

Truth Hurts   |2009-03-13 16:22:27 She is telling us not to be small minded, yet she is being small minded. This is just another diluted IBC who thinks she's saving the world one face at a time. Geez! She's even misguided about her intentions. If she's doing it just to make money, say so! Don't disguise it as something it's not. As far as the "wonderful" women she is meeting, there are wonderful women outside of Mary Kay who are not trying to make money off of you. Let's see how wonderful these women are when she decides not to be in Mary Kay anymore. She'll probably change her tune about most of them.

chopportunity   |2009-03-13 16:26:34 Ilikeredbetter, your post caused me to pause and think of the damage we have all seen done in the name of building an MK career. Women who have gone into needless debt, been humiliated by sales directors, emotional blackmail and manipulation, suffering abusive speech, sitting through mindless rah rah meetings in the name of being trained, lying to husbands and family members, depression, embarrassment, harrassment and so on. It dawned on me that the way you rate a tornado is by surveying the damage path. By my observations this has to be an F-5 plus pink tornado! It doesn't matter if it left a few houses or buildings standing, it is still a devestating storm that wrecked the lives of thousands. That is what I have to say about those in MK trying to do it the right way. You are still involved in a pink tornado that has ripped apart many lives. Just because your life was not affected, at least not to this point, does not change the fact that it was an F-5 tornado. Sorry to go on, but had to get this off my chest.

puc4now   |2009-03-13 16:47:19 "I pay more in tuition that normal people make in a year" And are you gloating about that? Anyone who can happily overpay for a mediocre education will surely have no problem getting other girls and women to overpay for mediocre cosmetics. Is there an ethics course at your distinguished university? You might want to enroll. Your "Eau de Entitlement" reeks.

chopportunity   |2009-03-13 16:48:40 Right on Puc4now and I just love your avatar! ;D

Rachel   |2009-03-13 16:49:53 Quote: I am a college Junior, who due to political policies put forth by socialistic bureaucrats I pay more in tuition that normal people make in a year Sweetie, the socialists want the government to provide your education for you. It is the free market that makes your education so expensive. Quote: … other women like you would rather complain about the problems in the world then  work to make their own self better. Many of us on this site have made ourselves successful. I personally make too much money to get much of anything in the way of financial aid for my daughters. I’m pretty happy about that. For many of us, it is not a matter of complaining about our problems, it is a matter of warning others how to avoid them. Quote: … ask some of the lonely, bitter women who post on your site if for $100 they would pass up an opportunity to be surrounded by supportive, positive women for once in their lives, my guess is they would say YES! If all it cost us was $100, this site would not be here. Many of us have lost thousands of dollars doing Mary Kay.   If doing a $100 activity would help me get a better social life, then of course I would not pass it up. That is a big part of the reason I do swing dancing. There is a great community of people on the dance scene, and I have made a few good friends through it. But I also spend on average $50 week on classes & dances. It’s not cheap, but I always knew it was something that would cost me money, not make money for me, and it’s well worth every penny I spend. The trouble with Mary Kay is that it doesn’t actually get most of us supportive friends. It introduces us to people who pretend to be our friends, but are really just interested in what they can gain from us financially. And they do not reveal the costs involved; they manipulate us into spending more than we ever dreamed we would. With friends like that, who needs enemies? Quote: You may think I'm taking advantage of these women, this is where we disagree. We rarely accuse the people selling Mary Kay products to end users of taking advantage. Mostly, it is the ones who con people into buying inventory they don’t need who are taking advantage of people in Mary Kay. Quote: boosting that Mary Kay is only filled with women like this, is not only a lie, but a disservice to women everywhere who may have found just what they were looking for within this organization. In fact, most of us do not claim that Mary Kay is only filled with such women. We tell about the experiences we had with them, and warn others about it. Most of us that came here were very surprised to find out how many others have had the same bad experiences. There are many people here who actually started Mary Kay with very good intentions, and got in too deeply, and ended up either in debt from it, or hurting others, or both. We’d like to warn people how easy that is, so they don’t make the same mistakes we did. If someone wants to do Mary Kay, and buy only what they need and are absolutely sure they can sell, more power to them. You’ve complained about how expensive your tuition is, and claimed that doing Mary Kay will cut your college debt in half. But you haven’t told us what your debt actually is, nor how much you’re selling. You do mention that you have an extremely busy life, implying that you don’t have much time for your Mary Kay. But you don’t tell us how much time you actually spend on Mary Kay. You are strongly implying that you’re making a good deal of money with very little effort, but you don’t give us any details about how much you’re actually making, or how much time you’re actually spending on it. Nor do you tell us how long you’ve been doing it, so we can know whether you have a pattern of consistent results for more than 6 months, or whether you pool of people you know to hold parties for is about to run out. Of the many people who post hear at PT, we have consistent experience that tells us it’s unlikely for anyone to consistently make the kind of money you imply your making, with as little effort as you imply you’re making, on a consistent basis for any length of time. Can you show us differently?

nomoremlm4me   |2009-03-13 16:52:29 But it's not her avatar; it's a real photo ;D ;D

Rachel   |2009-03-13 16:57:11 Quote: Ladies, I have a comment slightly off the topic It seems like everyone who is critiquing this college student's grammar and writing skills is assuming this person is a native English speaker. I personally feel a little uncomfortable every time I read a comment about poor grammar, etc. However, I am not easily intimidated and have enough self esteem to continue posting my comments. English is the forth language that I speak. People have told me before that sometimes I have an interesting way expressing myself, but I just smile and don't mind at all to repeat or express myself choosing different words. My point is, please be a little more forgiving for those who are English grammar challenged, because I personally consider you my PT friends and truly hope I am not the only one who's English is not their language of origin. I agree with what you said here, but I also want to mention that your grammar in this post is 100 times better (easier to understand) that the person who wrote the letter in the main entry. A few of the things she said, if you interpret them literally, would actually mean the opposite of what (I think) she means to say.

chopportunity   |2009-03-13 17:38:56 Nomore you are a nut! ;D

madamchair   |2009-03-13 19:55:17 Many of you have already commented that the young woman’s writing skills have detracted from whatever of little value she was attempting to write. Notice that her over-all attitude concerning life issues and circumstances in which she is already participating are negative. She is accusing socialist policies for the cost of her expensive tuition bills. I believe tapping the market she gravitates toward is a reflection of her own self-esteem issues and arrested juvenile maturation. How many women would prefer to spend time with young girls wanting to play dress-up? How difficult are they to persuade to purchase products the writer says will “give them self-esteem”? Self-esteem is a value one has about oneself irrespective of outward appearances. Beautiful women often have low self-esteem. We are not fooled by your stated motivation of self-serving salvation for the oppressed. I do admire your attention to the needs of these young women and attempts to help them discover who they are. I am suggesting, however, that perhaps simply giving of your time without expectation of and exchage of product for money would be a terrific gift. I think it noteworthy to point out that the writer has not indicated that the mothers of the little girls are purchasing any of the products for themselves. Other than paying for a little acne product and mascara to appease their daughters, there was no mention of anything else. Of course, the writer is trying to persuade us that she only takes a few products. Writer, you have missed several points. First the women here represent diverse races, social and educational levels, and occupations. We are mothers, grandmothers, daughters, wives, have vast life experiences, tragedies and triumphs. Don’t take it personally when we say you have no idea what you are talking about. We have no need to pay anyone for friendship or companionship. There is a word for that which I will not mention/ Write back after you have been awarded your degree. Keep reading, come back and post some questions before you make a decision to jump full-time into MK.

lightershadeofpink   |2009-03-13 20:15:20 Dear College Junior, You are young, inexperienced, and opinionated. I think it is great that you have opinions but make sure you do your research before spouting off like you do. I can tell that you did not do your homework and really read through this site. If you did you will find women with 5, 10, 25 or more years experience in MK. Many are experienced IBCs, red jackets, SDs, SSDs and above with accomplishments to match. Everyone here knows the ins and outs of MK far better than you do. I suggest you read and learn from these woman. They are not here to bash MK for the fun of it. Their mission is to get the truth out, expose the lies, provide information you won't get anywhere else, and provide support and encouragement for others who are suffering from being badly hurt emotionally and financially from their experience in MK. No one here takes joy in "bashing" just for the fun of it. You will need this site someday. As you go further and further in to debt and the unsold inventory on your shelf grows bigger and bigger, as you discover the lies you've been told and are now telling others, and when your conscience finally tells you that you are working in an unethical business, PinkTruth will be there for you. We will accept you with open arms and will support you, encourage you, and help you straighten out the mess you got yourself into by joining MK. Please come back often, read, and post.

curious observer   |2009-03-13 22:04:28 Ok, this question is a little off topic, but I'm just 'curious' about something: did a lot of you ladies come out of the same area? What I mean is, were you recruited by directors in the same areas or is there just a mishmosh of regions represented here? How many "nationals" are there in MK anyway?

jodigirl   |2009-03-13 22:26:30 wow ladies- give this girl a break. It's not as if she's not doing anything with her business that anyone else here didn't do, she selling what she can where she can. I sometimes have a hard time with the excessive bitterness on this site. I mean who twisted your arm to buy the recognition,sorry I mean product, you have sitting in you basements. If you can't sell it don't order it. Some of the stories on here are just sad but it's not just Mary Kay. It's all direct selling companies. If it sounds to good to be true, it is.

Kinzie   |2009-03-13 22:58:56 Quote: "I only bring the Velocity Skin Care line, which I personally know to have helped with my acne and mascara" What the ---- does this mean??? How does Velocity help you with your mascara? What she meant was that she brings the "Velocity Skin Care line (which I personally know to have helped with my acne) and mascara". Kind of like that book, "Eats, Shoots and Leaves". <>

ILikeRedBetter   |2009-03-13 23:13:24 Curious: Ok, this question is a little off topic, but I'm just 'curious' about something: did a lot of you ladies come out of the same area? What I mean is, were you recruited by directors in the same areas or is there just a mishmosh of regions represented here? How many "nationals" are there in MK anyway? I'm not sure how many NSDs there are total, but we come from all over the US and from different national areas. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm sure that there are women on this site that are from the same area, but not all. I have even seen women who say they are from other countries like Canada. The problems in MK, unfortunately, are throughout the whole company not just one or two national areas. I hope this answers your question.

ILikeRedBetter   |2009-03-13 23:20:12 By the way Curious, I wish the other women in MK would give us the respect that you have given us by sticking around to have a dialogue instead of the usual hit and run.

pinkpinkustink   |2009-03-13 23:26:18 Why do you all have to condemn people for grammar so much? I am disabled in this area and struggle. I thought she wrote her thoughts very eloquently. She may struggle in this area also, not everyone can write perfectly. That being said, she did not mention anything about recruiting. A MK sales person in the right community that is not over saturated can actually have good sales and the hours are flexible. Mostly, I don't think you gals should judge so harshly with grammar as you do, she wrote her emotions down very well, even if the grammar was not perfect.

pinkpinkustink   |2009-03-13 23:27:39 My national was Carol Anton.

pinkpinkustink   |2009-03-13 23:31:35 I actually like Carol, she impressed me.

pinkpinkustink   |2009-03-13 23:32:47 Sorry, I keep thinking of more to say.....Carol got in the business at a good time when the home part was popular and sales were not over saturated.

pinkpinkustink   |2009-03-13 23:33:16 I meant....home party was popular.

ILikeRedBetter   |2009-03-13 23:47:25 My NSD was Rena Tarbet, but she retired in November of 2008. Since then, no one has been able to take her place. She was out of Texas, but somehow recruited someone from Virginia, which is where I signed up.

The Scribbler   |2009-03-14 00:52:52 "If it sounds to good to be true, it is." Easy to say, but difficult to keep in mind when a recruiter's just learned your hot button and/or dream and is mashing that sucker into the ground so you'll sign that beauty consultant agreement pronto. And what if that recruiter is a trusted friend or family member? Hoo-boy. NSD Stacy James teaches her recruiters to only discuss the top three levels of inventory. Let's say you're an IBC and based on her wise guidance (how can you not trust her? She's an NSDeity!), you go with the $2400 package because that was the lowest option she gave you. You end up having a difficult time selling it at full retail, if you sell it at all, because consarnit, you done told your recruiter that you weren't the sales type, and she told you that all you needed to succeed in Mary Kay was be excited and have fun.   Yes, it was your choice to purchase the inventory, Jodi, but NSD James controlled that choice to her advantage.  See how jacked up that is?

pinkpiddlin   |2009-03-14 01:22:14 pinkpinkustink" Yes, she did say something about recruiting....please, re-read the following excerpt from her post. "I teach the girls in fun way, what the point of make-up really is and that is to feel the best you can in your own skin. Yes, the mothers are there and believe me when they see their daughters happy and confident with nothing more than mascara on their face they sign right up. You may think I'm taking advantage of these women, this is where we disagree. I will be graduating this year with only half the debt I would have had originally due to Mary Kay, and I've helped girls avoid at least a little of the awkwardness that middle school and high school has to offer." She does not write eloquently or even describe her emotions eloquently. If she did, it would have been much easier to decipher her essay. I can tell you that she would NOT pass a high school proficiency exam for writing skills (required in most states to graduate) with this type of disjointed writing.

raisinberry   |2009-03-14 11:02:25 Curious asks a question that I am sure many wonder. Kind of like those who want to say we shouldn't do this because of one or two bad Directors. Unfortunately that is not the case. In general, when each career path consultant moves on up and is faced with the same unworkable obstacles, what she gets are sayings and platitudes. Frustrated by what "appears" like others having success, she strains to "make it happen". She is encouraged with the same string of training that every Director has heard from every other Director above her. And since no one can openly discuss real problems and real issues without being handed a rubber chicken, real solutions never come forth. With everybody "learning" the same nonsense and ways to get over, while keeping quiet as to how exactly 80,000 worth of wholesale came magically in, how number 10,11 and 12 showed up for the car, how terminated consultants get reborn, etc., etc., NO ONE runs a completely ethical business or area. NO ONE tells the truth about the real consition of their "business", because to do so would expose the con. This is universally spread all over the country with a *wink, wink*, "find away or make a way" challenge that shows who is willing to make it happen and who just can't any longer. We are here because we couldn't any longer. Mary Kay refuses to adjust their marketing plan away from the multi-level model, and likewise their system of bogus recognition (for what is in essence, fraud) because THEY MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY PLAYING PRETEND. Think of how much wholesale merchandise is in garages, basements, spare bedrooms, purchased by some pressure to "Achieve". The whole real world of business tracks SALES to consumers by order forms, cash registers, and contracts, and rewards come accordingly. Without tracking, Mary Kay tempts and takes advantage of the sin nature of humanity, and then walks away with a "tsk tsk" when Eve takes the bait. Stupid Eve...nobody held a gun to her head.

180degrees   |2009-03-14 12:55:48 I came from a Go-Give(lol) area, with the area led by a woman who was almost ready to go into NSD. She is probably not so ready now, but that is neither here nor now. She was an awesome leader, in the sense of being effective, but not in the sense of being nice. Any outward niceness was calculated, and directed toward those who performed in the ways she wanted them to...and I'm sure you can guess that that means consistently being a Star. Because I have a relative in the business, I cannot name this person. Otherwise, I would. I returned inventory...a lot...after selling what I could (which wasn't much) at a discount, and still ended up with over $600 left. I kept products out of the return which I could use myself, but still ended up with some things which are the wrong color for me. They will probably sit here, until I finally figure out that there is nothing that I can do with them, other than give them away. It's not a bad thing to give them away, I guess, but it just shows that when you stock an entire inventory, which I did, you are going to end up losing a lot of it, one way or another. If you readers are going to ever work with an MLM, go with one that doesn't force you to keep an inventory that you may never be able to get rid of, and make any sort of profit. Or better yet, DON'T GO WITH AN MLM AT ALL!

icanbecomesane   |2009-03-14 13:31:14 NO ONE tells the truth about the real consition of their "business", because to do so would expose the con. Thank You Raisinberry.

The Scribbler   |2009-03-14 13:33:29 Raisinberry, the Adam and Eve analogy has MUCH in common with the Mary Kay recruiting racket! Check it out, friends: The snake made Eve question her morals ("Did God say you shall not eat of every tree in the garden?" Eve had an objection, as in, "The tree in the middle of the garden is verboten, bud; we eat it, we die." (I'm citing from the New Scribbler Standard Translation, here).   The snake overcame that objection: "You're not gonna die; You eat that, and you'll be a goddess, knowing good and evil!" So Eve takes the bait and believes what the snake tells her, her hot buttons freshly pushed.  She manages to convince her husband that what the snake told her was true. And yet, one of the first things Adam and Eve did after they were "recruited" was to utilize concealment tactics.  They covered themselves. They hid. Why would someone who'd just been enlightened feel a need to hide things? Hardcore directors and NSDs, would you care to answer that one for me?

icanbecomesane   |2009-03-14 13:47:44 It is funny to me how easy it is to tell when a MK consultant posts here. The consultant always asks: "Why are all you bitter, lazy, spineless, losers who don't know how to run a business so darn MEAN?!"

raisinberry   |2009-03-14 14:40:29 Scribbler...dead on. Mary Kay's sales job of the potentially goddess-like life, starts FIRST with suggesting to the recruit all the ways her life is unfulfilled, and falls short. What she LACKS is highlighted in order to make the opportunity the golden ticket. This is EXACTLY the type of con used in the Old Testament story. Tell her that she is lacking in all the knowledge she needs---that something is being kept from her, and that the "fruit" is going to provide her with all she lacks is a direct parallel. I guess that makes Mary Kay and all mlm systems /schemes/ ponzi's/ and Madoffs direct descendents of you know who.

pinkpinkustink   |2009-03-14 15:42:30 pinkpiddlin.......I missed that small part about recruiting, I was tired when I read it. I still think that bashing people on this site for grammar and spelling is going way to far. This is supposed to be a safe place to vent and share opinions and not everyone has perfect grammar. I read this site almost everyday and I don't like the harshness of bashing someone for grammar. I am a decent writer but I struggle with grammar and I am a graduate student. I have to have all my papers proofread by a peer before I turn them in. It is not fair to judge someone on grammar, especially when it is emotional and they probably did not have someone proofread it for them. Remember that just because someone has less than perfect grammar does not mean that their opinion or intelligence is less! Please quit bashing people for grammar and stick to the subject at hand. MK Recovery!

jodigirl   |2009-03-14 16:01:50 right on pinkpinkustink

Kinzie   |2009-03-14 16:26:13 Quote: I still think that bashing people on this site for grammar and spelling is going way to far. This is supposed to be a safe place to vent and share opinions and not everyone has perfect grammar. I read this site almost everyday and I don't like the harshness of bashing someone for grammar. I am a decent writer but I struggle with grammar and I am a graduate student. I have to have all my papers proofread by a peer before I turn them in. It is not fair to judge someone on grammar, especially when it is emotional and they probably did not have someone proofread it for them. Remember that just because someone has less than perfect grammar does not mean that their opinion or intelligence is less! Please quit bashing people for grammar and stick to the subject at hand. MK Recovery! I agree with this.

pinkpiddlin   |2009-03-14 17:25:43 Just to clarify....I was not "bashing" the writer on her grammar or her spelling. I was saying that her writing style is so convoluted that it was a nightmare to read it and try to figure out just what she was trying to say. Even in passion, a person can write what they feel and make it clear. Use short sentences. This helps a writer to state a thought. Transition into your next thought with another short sentence. Change paragraphs when you are starting on a new subject. RE-READ your post before you hit the send button! She passionately asked us to "READ THIS ENTIRE EMAIL" and I did but it was difficult. I had to read each sentence multiple times so I could try to figure out just what she was trying to convey to us. I figured it out when I got to her final paragraph. She summed it up by telling me that I need to look at the issues from both sides. That I am a bitter, small-minded person with too much time on my hands. The following is just an FYI for the writer...I WAS in MK for 31 years so I saw MANY things from many sides. I am now an extremely effective high school counselor who makes more in a year than 80% of the women listed in Applause (never mind the thousands of MK'ers not mentioned in Applause who make next to nothing). I have benefits, retirement and summers and week-ends off. I am responsible on a daily basis for about 500 high school age kids. I serve on the Board of Directors for 3 service organizations in our county, was just named "woman of the year" by our local chapter of a national philanthropic association and am a leading member of our local educational philanthropic soroity. I am the driving force in our local area for a "my sister's closet" to assist women who do not have the money to obtain a professional "interview" outfit. (When they go to job interviews, they present better and feel better about themselves because they look professional.) It is also a great, positive way to use my leftover trays and mirrors and all of those 50,00 samples I collected over the years. I hardly think I have "time on my hands".....I keep looking for more time because there are so many unmet needs in the world today. I might suggest that you look to see ways you can assist others without any expectations. I would also suggest that you move up the ladder in MK and have a few "successful" years before you come to a website like PT and act so arrogant and righteous. "She does not know of what she speaks!" To write the type of email you wrote (content, not grammar and spelling) makes you look foolish and immature. Please, use that high-priced education for the good of society and truly enrich people's lives. PP

SusanWilson   |2009-03-14 19:26:21 Though I am not one of the "grammar police", a poorly expressed paragraph usually reveals a poorly organized and/or confused mind. When someone gets up on their high horse & lectures other people but can't be bothered to express themselves simply & correctly, it's infuriating, & sometimes sad at the same time. BTW, Pinkpinkustink, though you claim to be deficient in that area yourself, you usually manage to write & express yourself coherently, from what I have read. Raisinberry, has anyone ever estimated or tracked the amount, in percentages, of MK "stuff" that is never sold to a retail customer, that ends up in a basement, landfill, back at MK Headquarters? MK Corpse used to claim, in the 1970's, that they sent Sd's & IBC's out to nursing homes to give facials & give returned product to the residents, wondered if they still did that?

icanbecomesane   |2009-03-14 20:32:34 Saying someone has poor writing skills is not bashing them. Pinkpiddlin, write on.

TRACY   |2009-03-15 00:37:59 I just think it's a bit ironic that this writer is bragging about being a college student and calling us names, while she is unable to put together a grammatically correct email. LOL.

theycheat   |2009-03-15 07:42:18 wow! the girl is just doing what we did! protecting what she believes in!!!! how bout some understanding. my grammar isn't so great and i pretty successful. for the record, i disagree with everything you've said, but i totally understand why you said it!

dupedbypinkfriend   |2009-03-15 11:07:36 Four the recourd, i haytes Marry Kaye, und i caint tollerate Kaybotts. ;D

pinkpiddlin   |2009-03-15 14:37:01 That's the beauty of the good 'ol USA randy patterson! We can say state AND defend just about anything we want. She stated, we defended! However, when you state and ask us to read the statement, it helps if it is written in a way that is easily understood. When you complete your statement by telling us what lazy, bitter jerks we are it is our right to defend. If she wanted understanding, she would have asked for that. It was obvious that she did not want understanding because the whole tone of her letter tells us she knows everything. It also tells us, according to her perception, that what she is doing is on the "higher moral ground" and "for the greater good" than anything we ever did with our business. The bottom line is she is a young, inexperienced IBC who thinks she has reinvented the wheel with her MK business (and her 3 years at an expensive university). She also has a greatly inflated ego and thinks she is going to convince/teach us how to do MK the right way. She hopes to either: --save us from being lazy, bitter losers --consider ourselves properly chastised so we will slink away into the night and leave poor MK alone. I guess my response was, for the most part, to inform. I was not looking for bragging rights. I simply wish that all of these "holier than thou" lurkers could get past their insecurities. I would hope they would come to the realization (by REALLY reading our discussions and posts) that we, PT'ers, are a collective group of intelligent, highly competant people who have accomplished great things in our lives despite MK. PP

pinkpiddlin   |2009-03-15 14:48:23 Whoops! Scratch the word say in the first sentence and correct the spelling to competent...sheeesh! It's a good thing that "the last guy who was perfect died on the cross". We will continue to strive, but we will never get there. ;D ;D ;D PP

ILikeRedBetter   |2009-03-15 18:02:15 randy, again the same argument about why PT is so "mean" and "bitter" towards MKers who post. People in MK come on PT and other anti-MK sites and say whatever they want. They come on here and cuss at us, call us names, and hurl accusations at us and we are suppose to just sit and take it and not have the right to defend ourselves. Worse, they do "hit and runs" where they will post something nasty but never stay to have an adult conversation about it. They never want to have a healthy debate. Yet I have NEVER seen anyone on PT cuss any of them out. I have NEVER seen anyone on PT call them ridiculous names. And you are upset because we ask for the MKers to use better grammar? All we expect is a little respect. If you have something to say, don't do a "hit and run". Stay and discuss your point with us. You will find that we aren't "losers" or "lazy".... and you may even find out that we know what we're talking about.

AllStarredOut   |2009-03-15 22:11:18 I've got $50 that says her mommy is a Kaybot!

ILikeRedBetter   |2009-03-15 22:55:17 AllStarredOut: I've got $50 that says her mommy is a Kaybot Yeah, I think you're probably right......or is the SD of the college junior who wrote the letter above.

ArcticHawk   |2009-03-15 23:49:41 Well, it seems that you've found another way to hawk MK products. I promise,if you'd taken drug store cleanser and mascara to a bunch of middle school girls their reaction would have been the same.In fact, why not try and save yourself a little money and buy the drug store brand and fill the MK bottles with it? Either way you'd be considered and fraud. It's your choice: rope these youngsters into paying too much money for something that works no better than the drug store brand or relabel the drug store brand and sell it for more. You'll be back here on PT once you discover that MK and others like it are a huge ripoff and all the money that could possibly be made by small timers like yourself, has already happened. Yep,it happened long before you were born by those that got in on the "ground floor". So we'll all wait here for ya...heck we'll even leave the pink light on for ya in case you get too lost out there in the MK wilderness

ILikeRedBetter   |2009-03-16 00:10:32 ArcticHawk: ..heck we'll even leave the pink light on for ya in case you get too lost out there in the MK wilderness LOL! ;D

babynurse   |2009-03-16 06:16:42 Woop!!!!!!! ;D .....Just adding a touch of randomness. This has been a wildly entertaining thread to read.

Truth Not Tears   |2009-03-16 10:34:31 As a parent, I would discourage my child from paying "more tuition than most people make in a year" when they have trouble writing a concise, grammatically correct essay.  To make it worse, it sounds like she is acquiring debt for this education that obviously is not serving her well.  This is not to criticize the author, just making a comment about how sad it is that she has not received good advice!  (I am not the smartest person in the world and make grammatical mistakes so I feel her pain!) However, I do feel that when someone writes a "note" to PT, criticizing us for sharing our true MK experiences, they should expect that we won't roll over and just take it!  I'm a pretty soft hearted person, but don't come here and tell me that what I share from my 25 years is "bias and appalling" and end with this: "I hope you do take the time to read this and think about what I have said. I would imagine you get emails of this nature all the time, but if you are truly dedicated to your fight than you might think about it from both sides. If you don't, than you really are another small minded, bitter women, with way too much time on you hands.  Go get a facial... you really will feel better! I swear " I suggest this writer jump in the pink box and put a lid on it! OR, maybe SHE should consider "both sides" as she suggests to us?

PUNKEDBYPINK   |2009-03-16 21:21:03 TNT----Right on!!!! You know what they say, "first impressions are lasting ones". In this life, people are taken more seriously when they can communicate. Maybe the author of this post will learn a very valuable lesson for the bargain price of a post here on PT!! Most pro MKers forget they are dealing with women with many many years of experience. I, for one do not fall into this catagory, but I'm proud to be a part of this site. But, I do see the value of making a point with fairly consise cohesive sentences. It makes you believable and confirms the passion you have for your point of view. I want people to take me seriously. Writing has the advantage of proof-reading and editing. When words are spoken, that's it. You can't unring a bell.

curious observer   |2009-03-16 22:10:23 I have been reading this post with much interest. When I first posted about rudeness, these were the kind of comments I was alluding to. Picking on people because of small grammatical errors that they probably missed because they were being passionate about what they were saying. In fact, I have seen many of you on PT get passionate and make some grammar errors. That being said, this young lady's essay did deserve some comment on the lack of clarity in her writing. I do believe that if someone wants to be taken seriously they need to at least proofread to make sure their sentences make sense. Speaking to writing skills in general. I used to teach school and quit because it was becoming more about passing a test than really educating the students. So in this girl's defense, she has probably never been taught to write a concise and coherent essay. That is the sad state of education today. Anyway, just wanted to put my two cents in to say for the most part I agree with the most of you this time...don't get used to it though

chopportunity   |2009-03-17 12:38:33 Curious Observer, while I do agree with you to a point, TNT makes a good observation in that if someone is going to tell all of us to take a hike and get a facial, she should do so in a way that we can at least understand what she is saying. To write someone and challenge them to read it all and then write it in such a careless way is insulting. That is what most of us are addressing. What is it that is said in MK, 'You can do it all wrong but with the right attitude and see good results but you can do something perfectly but with the wrong attitude and not get good results.' It is her attitude that is being addressed more so than her use of grammar or writing style. Thanks for making your observations in such a respectful way. While I may choose not to agree, I am willing to read and listen to what you are saying.

devinam   |2009-03-17 13:34:18 I'm a couple days late reading this post, and I think my response will be a little scattered, so please bear with me. First, I'm confused about her title of the email... "There are not opportunities like Mary Kay available for people like me". It sounds like she's saying Mary Kay doesn't work for people like her...or people in her situation can't do Mary Kay...did anyone else get confused by that, or more to the point, did anyone figure out exactly what she meant? I'm curious. For the most part I understood the rest, (I think) and I think it's a shame that she probably sent the email to the site, but has no intention of seeing if it's posted or reading comments. Second, I was also confused by her statement about the mothers being excited to see smiles on their daughter's faces, so they "sign right up"...does that mean they become IBCs too, or just that they buy the product? How does the moms becoming IBCs help their daughters? She said we may think she's taking advantage of these people, and it sounds to me like she is...if she's recruiting them for her team, she's using their emotional ties to their daughters to get them to sign up. She didn't sound like she was a Director, just an IBC, so I'm not sure about the recruiting thing. If she IS recruiting, I wonder how she manages her team, and the moms, and if she encourages them to front load product? That would be interesting to know. Third, I can see how she thinks she's improving the world with her business. I know if I'm feeling crappy, if I actually take the time to wash my face and put on a little make up, I feel better, because I look better. Am I a victim of today's society and advertising? You bet. We all are. We are very ingrained into the beliefs that make up makes us look prettier, and while it would be fantastic to live in a world where beauty is viewed without added makeup, we don't live in that world. I know that I think a little make up enhances people's complexions and attributes. And it makes me feel good to look good. So I understand how teaching adolescent girls about skin care and taking care of themselves, as well as how to apply tasteful makeup can really help their self esteem. I'm even ok with her teaching and showing, then providing the products to buy. I know I've tried many skin care products, and MK really works well with my skin. I am also the first to say to people that if you have a skin care line you love, don't change it, but if you're looking for one, try MK and see if you like it. (but I hate pushing product on anyone, I like to share it if someone is interested. probably why I don't make much money at it.lol ) So if Velocity worked well for her and her acne, chances are it's bound to help others too. I would also guess maybe she has one of the few directors who actually *teaches* her team how to sell, and doesn't encourage ordering product if the sales aren't there. Just a guess. And lastly (sorry this is rambling), her comments about who wouldn't want to be in such a supportive environment...yes, it's very supportive. IF you place orders. IF you recruit. The positive reinforcement is fantastic, as long as you're moving along in line with what your director wants you to do. My guess is she just hasn't yet experienced what can happen if you get swept up in needing the recognition, and don't pay attention to your bottom line.

curious observer   |2009-03-17 19:57:48 chopportunity, I totally agree with you on this one. That's what I was trying to share "That being said, this young lady's essay did deserve some comment on the lack of clarity in her writing. I do believe that if someone wants to be taken seriously they need to at least proofread to make sure their sentences make sense." If you want to be taken seriously, you better make sure your thoughts come across clearly.

chopportunity   |2009-03-18 00:22:59 Well said curious. Curiously enough it appears we agree!

chopportunity   |2009-03-18 00:24:44 Oh and please, call me Chop! ;D

Rachel   |2009-03-18 16:36:36 Quote: Ok, this question is a little off topic, but I'm just 'curious' about something: did a lot of you ladies come out of the same area? What I mean is, were you recruited by directors in the same areas or is there just a mishmosh of regions represented here? Christine Peterson, Chicago suburbs for me.

zanadu   |2009-03-18 21:39:41 Margaret Barsch, Daytona Beach for me, Rachel, though I never met her.

imfree   |2009-03-19 15:09:14 I live in California, below Sacramento, and my NSD is retired now and I can't remember her name. She was out of Oklahoma, I think. Maybe it will come to me and I'll post it, but it wasn't either of those already mentioned. The SD I was originally recruited under is no longer in MK and my current SD is a good friend and I'd rather not mention her name. But we live in the same town. MK weirdness is everywhere. They are basically all trained by the same people in one way or another.

imfree   |2009-03-19 15:28:13 I forgot to mention that I did meet my NSD once at a retreat. She seemed nice enough but when she had an altar call and allowed everyone a blessing from her I almost died. I was very young at the time and of course did not realize the manipulation that was going on. I did want to meet her (don't ask me why) but I waited to the very last minute and just caught the tail end of her blessings. She cupped my face like she did every one else and said something but I don't have a clue now as to what it was. I'll admit I played a part in the craziness just by being there. But, you see, I thought it was a "training" retreat when I signed up to go and had not expected all the extra stuff. Being a born-again Christian myself, I can't say I was completely offended at first (that's how they get you) but now 10 years older and wiser I see the light. 10-15 years ago we didn't have forums like this to share our thoughts and concerns and to realize how similar they are (which is helpful in realizing there is an overall problem with the system itself). So at the time even if I thought it was weird who would I have talked to?? Every one else seemed okay with it and even if they weren't they certainly weren't sharing those thoughts with others like women do now. At least not in my cicle.

imfree   |2009-03-19 15:32:12 Anita Bertalot. I believe out of Oklahoma, maybe even Texas, but definitely not California.

deehitch   |2009-03-19 16:34:33 I have been looking at Pink Truth for a while now. I am no longer a consultant and am usually glad to read the posts and information put up on this page. I particularly like the one with specific facts and figures. However, I thought this email, although it could use some proof reading, was very good. We all have to agree we came into Mary Kay for a reason. Whether it was for the money, friends, opportunity, or whatever. There was a reason. For this person it was a part-time gig which helps pay for some of her college. For me it was a part-time thing for something to do which seemed like fun. Who knows what your reason was. The reason why I finally decided to create an account and post on this particular email was because of the response it got. I think that this person decided to write an email because she felt strongly about her reason for joining Mary Kay. Why is it though that I have yet to see anyone ever give any positive comments on someone who still feel like Mary Kay works for them? Honestly I quit Mary Kay on good terms. Yes, I had a director who played by the books, which didn't push me for orders, who still speaks with me on a regular basis even though I am not an active consultant and may never be again. Maybe that is why, even though I am not active, I do not have a distaste for the Mary Kay opportunity. My one suggestion for this website is that it does not need to ALWAYS be negative. This person felt strongly about their opinions in this email, and I do not feel that they should be bashed because of a few misspellings and grammatical errors. Read what she really had to say. This person was brave enough, with all of the bashing always done on this website, to express her feelings, and I applaud her for it. The truth of the matter is that Mary Kay does help some people. So the point of this post is that we do not always need to bash someone who's opinions may not match up. Keep an open mind.

ILikeRedBetter   |2009-03-20 10:41:17 imfree: But, you see, I thought it was a "training" retreat when I signed up to go and had not expected all the extra stuff. I totally agree. I had a similar experience at a retreat where the NSD told us that "God wanted us to be NSDs like her" and other mess like that. I was new to MK and was told it was all about training and that I would walk away with lots of notes and ideas on how to be successful. However, it was more like the church of MK with sermons from Rena Tarbet (my former NSD). It made me feel uncomfortable and really annoyed that they were using people's faith to manipulate them into "Bee-ing more". Very sad. Glad I am out and no longer in the pink fog.

imfree   |2009-03-20 12:43:54 oops, that should've said "at least not in my circle".

Rachel   |2009-03-23 14:57:34 Diedra Quote: Why is it though that I have yet to see anyone ever give any positive comments on someone who still feel like Mary Kay works for them? Really, never? What about these, from this thread, posted before yours? coppermine Quote: There ARE women who know the score and are doing MK the right way for reasons like this writer. So let the tomatoes fly - I am glad to hear all opinions- that is what our country is about or used to be, and many of us still want to keep it that way. Mary Kay to me has NEVER been about making money. I am grateful to all who post here. G'day! jodi Quote: wow ladies- give this girl a break. It's not as if she's not doing anything with her business that anyone else here didn't do, she selling what she can where she can pinkpinkustink Quote: I thought she wrote her thoughts very eloquently. She may struggle in this area also, not everyone can write perfectly. That being said, she did not mention anything about recruiting. A MK sales person in the right community that is not over saturated can actually have good sales and the hours are flexible. randy patterson Quote: the girl is just doing what we did! protecting what she believes in!!!! how bout some understanding. The reason you won't hear many comments favorable to MK here is that this is a place for people to express the pitfalls and difficulties they had with MK. There are all kinds of other places available to talk about how great MK is, and they're easy enough to find. If you go to one of those sites and post about the down side, you usually won't find much agreement there, either. And in many cases, you'll get booted from their site.

Rachel   |2009-03-23 15:06:03 Of course, another reason for the tone we used to respond to this post was the tone used to write the post. She starts off by complaining about the cost of her education, and blaming it on "socialist beaurocrats". Is that how you would start a letter if you were trying to get a positive response from someone? Then she says we "would rather complain about the problems in the world then work to make their own self better." This is clearly an insult. And kind of an ironic one for someone who started off the letter complaining about her problems and laying blame for them. Then she says "ask some of the lonely, bitter women who post on your site..." Ah, way to set a positive tone!

icanbecomesane   |2009-03-23 20:22:09 Hi Diedra! Check out the thread 'Hello!' (on the Discussion Board) by newibc 975. Let me know what you think.

TRACY   |2009-03-23 23:26:13 Deidra wrote: "My one suggestion for this website is that it does not need to ALWAYS be negative." Thanks for your input, but no. The purpose of this website is to warn women about a predatory company that is nothing more than a wolf in sheep's clothing. There is no way that this site will ever support or promote getting involved with MK. The things that women might think they can get from MK (friends, products that work for them, etc) can all be gotten elsewhere, without supporting this destructive company.

pinksedition   |2009-03-23 23:52:38 That's right, Tracy! ;D

deehitch   |2009-03-24 13:50:02 Tracy and Rachel, I guess more of what I was trying to convey was more that attacking someone's grammar and punctuation was not the way to go about commenting on this email. If the comments had been more about facts and figures I would have totally agreed with anything said. Instead most of the comments attack the girl personally. This site helped answer questions of mine when I was struggling in Mary Kay and was a big part of the reason my eyes were opened. I just think that instead of attacking the girl personally, giving her the facts she may need to open her eyes would have been more helpful. I agree that her sending an email which claims people on the site are bitter and lazy and whatnot was not the way to go. Also, I'm certainly not saying to post something positive about Mary Kay, but something not negative. I think the posts regarding the lawsuit are great because they contain facts and figures. Again, I don't mind the bashing of the company, but bashing someone for grammar is not helpful to your cause. I this is a great website, which definitely provides me a lot of laughs. But, can we stick to the facts, because that is what will ultimately help people in the long run and improve the website's reputation for "Enriching Women's Lives" by converting them to your way of thinking, and as you say "coming out of the pink fog". Just a thought.

deehitch   |2009-03-24 13:53:24 BTW Thank you, icanbecomesane. That was a great post. To be totally honest I never viewed the discussion board, but just the home page with comments. Those comments there are exactly what I am talking about - helpful to someone looking for answers. Let's see more of that!

Tina86   |2009-03-26 10:58:51 No way would Macy’s order another 2000 pairs of socks if they already had 5,000 backlogged in their inventory. Running a business means that you have to SELL your products. If you get lured by the promise of more by frontloading, then who is to blame. Advancing by frontloading is a sure way to doom. We cannot live the dream without doing the hard work. I don't know what it is going to take to get that into people's heads. Sheesh, accept RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF and do your research.

Rachel   |2009-03-26 12:14:31 The ordering at Macy's is done by people who have their qualifications quecked before they're hired, and are trained by people with experience, who will themselves benefit if the ordering is done correctly, according to policies set by experts who have done extensive study about how their sort of business should manage its inventory. Furthermore, they aren't threatened with losing any of their future pay if they fail to buy too much. In Mary Kay, ordering is done by people with skin, who are trained by representatives of the wholesaler (you know, people who will make more commission if the buyer buys big) and the wholesaler itself (which profits more if it sells more.) The experienced people they look to for advice, counsel them to take advantage of "deals", and buy things they don't need, or too much of things they do need. Obviously, none of us buy things we already have 2000 of on our shelves. But most of us did not have the expertise to really know how much we needed when we started out. If Satin Hands sets seem to sell well, it doesn't seem unreasonable to have 15 of them. If we want to give our customers the best possible service, then having at least 1 of everything in the catalog seems to make sense. All of us had to look for advice to the experienced, successful people above us. (Or at least, we thought they were successful -- they certainly worked hard at putting forth that image.) We had every reason to believe that following their example was the right thing to do. When you are learning, taking the advice of an expert is typically the right thing to do.

Rachel   |2009-03-26 12:15:02 checked, not quecked, ;D

Anonymous   |2009-07-02 02:29:15 Ну жесть конечно...

Only registered users can write comments!

Powered by !JoomlaComment 3.26

3.26 Copyright (C) 2008 Compojoom.com / Copyright (C) 2007 Alain Georgette / Copyright (C) 2006 Frantisek Hliva. All rights reserved."