UPDATE: Jamie did not meet the NSD requirements.

Jamie Taylor wants to be a National Sales Director (NSD) in Mary Kay. I don’t know of a sales director in MK who doesn’t want to be an NSD. That position is the seen as the pinnacle of success, as it is the highest you can go in the pyramid. They don’t realize, however, that half of NSDs aren’t making the promised “executive income.”

It takes a lot to get to NSD. You need at least 20 units in your first and second lines, in one of the following configurations:

  • 12 first line directors (with 3 as seniors) and 8 second line
  • 11 first line (with 3 as seniors) and 9 second line
  • 10 first line (with 3 as seniors) and 10 second line

Each of the units has to have at least 24 unit members, so failing units don’t count. 7 or more of the 20 units must be Premier or Cadillac units. So there you have the bar that has been set for NSD.

Why isn’t Jamie V. Taylor a Mary Kay NSD yet?

The NSD situation for Jamie Taylor (formerly Jamie Venning) is interesting. It’s not interesting because Jamie is a mean girl. It’s not interesting because Jamie is desperate to prove that MK is a real business and not a scam. It’s interesting because Jamie Taylor has been spinning her wheels for EIGHT YEARS, despite being seen as super successful in the Mary Kay world.

Jamie has been in Mary Kay for 8 years. She tells a story about being a 20 year old college student and making consistent money selling (with the lie of 50% profits), and eventually getting her first MK car by working 10-15 hours per week while still in college. Jamie became a sales director and pretty quickly moved up as the pyramid expanded below her. She went on her first top director trip to London in 2015.

In 2017 she was an Elite Executive Senior Sales Director. This means 8 or more first line offspring directors. She was determined to become an NSD in 2018 and break a company record for youngest NSD.

But it was not to be. Three years later (2020), Jamie is not an NSD, and she’s actually been DEMOTED. Jamie V. Taylor is merely an Executive Sales Director. This means 5 to 7 first line sales directors.

Admittedly, Jamie is making a ton of money from her downline. In May 2020, her unit added 27 new members and their retail production was $63,760. Jamie’s May 2020 commission was the largest in the diamond division and in the country at $21,857.

But now Jamie says she’s going to be an NSD by the end of THIS MONTH. (Note that this picture in her future NSD suit is actually last year’s suit, so she’s been recycling this picture for at least a year.)

In this video, Jamie goes through her journey to NSD and gives us these tidbits:

  • She used to work toward NSD, but now she’s working ON the goal of NSD. (Whatever that means!!!?!?!?)
  • It’s been frustrating because “it just hasn’t come together.”
  • At the beginning of 2020 she picked out her word for the year: become.
  • She had to stop focusing so hard on the qualifications and instead become the right person on the inside. She had to mature and become a better leader.
  • 2020 has been “outrageously successful” for Jamie’s area.
  • There is a small window for Jamie to finish the NSD qualifications.
  • There hasn’t been an NSD debut in Mary Kay in years. It’s so uncommon, and that’s on purpose.
  • We’ve grown so much in the last 6 months and we are 13 days away from finishing the national area. It’s so scary because there is so much to do and we HAVE TO finish it!!!!
  • She’s been quiet on social media because she doesn’t want a lot of women in her business and being nosy. (Hi Jamie!)
  • What has to happen: 5 girls have to take very specific promotions. It’s a lot of sales and team building. (Not sales, Jamie. Orders from MK. Nothing has to be sold to a customer.)
  • If there is any time that Jamie could use people to sign up as personal use consultants, now is the time. 6 months from now you can go back to being a customer. You have to pay $30 to join and order $225 wholesale. So it’s a $250 investment. (Actually, it’s about a $300 investment by the time you pay taxes on retail value, shipping, etc.)
  • She has to do it RIGHT NOW. 13 days left to finish.
  • She is not going to put this on Instagram or Facebook because she doesn’t want people in her business or being nosy. (Hi Jamie!)

How is this possible?

If the Lynnea Tate area website is current, she has 5 to 7 sales directors in her first line. Let’s assume it’s 7. To get to NSD she needs a minimum of 10 first line directors (with 3 as seniors, and I believe she has met that one already) and at least 7 of her directors have to be Premier or Cadillac. That would mean she needs 3 first lines to finish DIQ this month, and all 7 of the assumed current directors to be Premier or Cadillac. She also needs to have 10 second line directors, and it’s unclear how many of those she has right now.

One of Jamie’s newer directors is Cora Bowler, who lost her unit after 4 years but didn’t learn her lesson and went through DIQ again. It’s important to know that Cora was also in DIQ in July 2019 (as seen here in the DIQ uniform of red jacket and black shirt). Look how quickly they fall: she quit her real job after 2 months in MK and got 3 MK cars, yet she still lost her unit, still struggled going through DIQ multiple times. Cora personifies the Mary Kay hamster on a wheel, and is clearly one of the many who will devote years of their life to the losing MK proposition.

Here’s another on in Jamie’s downline: Cara Dalton, offspring of Taylor McKnight (so 2nd line to Jamie). She became a director in August 2019, lasted only 4 months, went back into DIQ this year, and just became a sales director again. She thinks this time will be different. When will they learn?

Back to Jamie…. Does she have the numbers to get to NSD this month? I think that’s questionable. She smartly doesn’t make her area lineup public, so people like me can’t keep track of the new directors and failed directors. If she’s going to make a push, now is the time, since there has been a ton of activity with new directors. If she waits too long, some of those will inevitably fail. (Remember this one? At least half of all directors don’t even make the minimum production of $4,500 per month consistently.) She all but confirmed this. She knows she’s close to having the numbers this month. One or two months more, and she’ll lose a director or two and she won’t finish.

Stay tuned!



  1. It doesn’t happen just because you stay positive and “bee-lieve.” It doesn’t happen just because you have a new watchword (“Become”? Really?). Attitude and watchwords will not change reality, no matter what Rhonda “The Secret” Byrne says. The sad reality is simply this: Mary Kay is a pyramid of sand with a firehose directed at the base. You have to keep shoveling in fresh sand, or it all burns down, falls over, and sinks into the swamp.

    You build a unit, blink twice, and it’s gone. That’s what happens when you recruit people into a pipe dream: they wise up and drop out. It isn’t complicated; it’s simply because, to use the original name of this blog: Mary Kay Sucks.

    I can’t say I blame Jamie for being more private about her aspirations. It has to be embarrassing to try and fail repeatedly and publicly. But Jamie, if you’re reading this, maybe take a step back and look at what’s really going on. Maybe it’s time to stop churning through women like empty husks, and see them as people. People who have suffered economic setbacks and hardships while you chase your dreams of wealth and recignition. There has to be a better way to get ahead than…THIS.

    • “Mary Kay is a pyramid of sand with a firehose directed at the base. You have to keep shoveling in fresh sand, or it all burns down, falls over, and sinks into the swamp.“

      So true, and/or sand falls DOWN to fill the missing space. Given that there is always a bottom in a pyramid structure, and people on the bottom will not want to just support the weight above them, attrition is high in MLM. It’s the domino effect downward with upline always scrambling to plug the bottom holes with new people. Sand slipping down becomes the new bottom. It’s an inevitable chain of events.

      Jamie’s demotion is a great example of sand slipping DOWN into a position.

      I wonder how many MLMers have comprehended this principle of physics?

    • There isn’t really, but she understands that the numbers are in her favor (sort of) right now. She needs to accumulate 20 directors in her 1st and 2nd lines. Right now, she’s close. 2 months from now, a few of the current directors will likely drop off, and then she’s further away from the 20.

        • Yes, NSDs can lose their title. Per page 25 of the Advance brochure: “Once appointed, an Independent National Sales Director who debuted after Jan. 1, 2012, must maintain one of the following area requirements in order to retain her NSD status:
          • Achieved $100,000 in NSD commissions** in the prior Seminar year; or
          • Maintain at least eight first-line offspring Independent Sales Directors in her National
          Area; or
          • Maintain at least 20 offspring Independent Sales Directors in her first through third lines,
          affiliated and unaffiliated.

          A new Independent National Sales Director is not subject to these requirements for the first two years after her debut. During this two-year growth period, an NSD should focus on the development of her new National Area with strategies that create sustainable strength.

          If any NSD falls below the area requirements after this initial two-year growth period, the NSD will have up to two years to achieve at least one of the area requirements to remain an active NSD.

            • I think they find it’s easier to make it stick than to make the initial push. To get to NSD you need 20 units in first and second line. Once you’re at NSD, you need 20 units in first, second, and THIRD lines (with at least 8 in first). Or we can disregard how many units you have under you as long as you make $100k in NSD commissions. Without 20+ units, I think it’s hard to make $100k.

              • I hate that this $100k in commissions is something that, according to Kaybots, equals actual $100k in income (it’s not! Expenses! Personal taxes because independent contractor! Ugh, just so many reasons that 100k commission =/= anything near actual income). And it’s Just like how they attest that $10,000 in wholesale equals $20,000 in retail sales.

                Seriously, when will these MK folks learn that the MK sales and compensation terminology is entirely made up and means nothing in the “real world”?

                Lol sorry, they just drive me nuts with their MK math. I had to vent. Thanks!

            • No, unless they break their NSD Agreement by not following rules. They were grandfathered in and do nothing to maintain it, their trips, or their Cadillacs. That’s one of the big reasons MK changed their qualifications and maintenance. There were, and still are, a lot of dead weight that never did anything except show up to conferences in glittery earrings and heels.

          • So two years of building and two years of “a chance” before they lose position. No wonder NSD’s are having a plan b and jumping ship.

            Getting my popcorn ready for the show. Keep us posted.

            • It’s basically 4 years of hoping things will turn around. 2 dipping down into probation territory and 2 more scrambling to bring it back to life. But, I agree, it makes me wonder if that’s the driving force behind people like Dacia, Cecilia, et al that are doing other things.

              How humiliating to be a shining star onstage at your NSD debut and then lose it just the way Directors do but for all to see!

              • What I would like to see is if any of these NSDs who leave for these reasons actually migrate into an ACTUAL executive position in the non-MLM world. Granted, there are so few NSDs in general that we don’t have a large pool of examples. But off the top of my head, I’m thinking of NSDs who have ventured into other “careers”, and I can’t think of a single one that has moved horizontally into a real-world executive position…

                I mean, Dacia is desperately promoting maxi pads on her Insta; the con artist formerly known as Alison LaMar runs a cult-like private school supported by her MLM owner hubs; that Kimberly woman who wears tacky low cut shirts to PTA meetings is embarrassing her family on YouTube; and pretty much every other one tries to sell personal coaching via their downline connections.

                As an example, let’s use Dacia. Is she paid for her brand promotions on Insta? Maybe for some and not others. Is her Insta bringing in the same commissions she makes with MK? I doubt it. So why does she do it? If she’s such a successful sales/management executive with MK, why can’t she go to another company as a sales director, marketing director, etc?

                It’s simple: MLM royalty are nothing in the real world, and so they can’t acquire a new position (with an actual executive income). Their best bets are to leverage their social media/MLM “friends “ in sometimes desperate or laughable ways.

                • You bring up VERY valid points! No one takes MK seriously outside of MK, so it’s not surprising former NSDs or Directors aren’t doing great after leaving MK. I understand that Instagrammers do make commissions off links that are clicked by their followers, so it makes me question why Dacia and others are doing it if the MK world is so prosperous.

                  Ship’s sinking!

          • You know, this makes me think they are struggling to keep the “new rules” NSDs from failing and dropping back to director. “If any NSD falls below the area requirements after this initial two-year growth period, the NSD will have up to two years to achieve at least one of the area requirements to remain an active NSD.”

            • Yet, a top Director stumbles for just 2 months has only 1 final month to make production. How is that fair? After making them so much money for years, she loses her position after 3 bad months!

              Although that didn’t happen to me personally, I’ve always felt it’s a double standard. You can be a Trip Director and then have a bad, catastrophic quarter and lose it all.

          • My former NSD has one trip earning director and that director has an offspring. That’s it. She debuted in like 2014 or 2015 so she should have been dismissed from the NSD position, but hasn’t been. I think they must be making exceptions amd giving more time.

      • And the only way she succeeds at this NSD push is getting the downline to buy more wholesale and convince others to do the same. I think this made-up urgency that it must be done by a certain date is to get these downliners to order lots of wholesale before they see how hard it is to sell. It’s a frenetic environment where everyone has to ORDER ORDER ORDER RIGHT NOW!

        Whether it sells is irrelevant. That is, until after she’s christened NSD but her area still needs to meet minimum requirements, and those below her who way overspent to support HER goal run out of credit or patience. They fall off, and now that NSDs have requirements to meet, the hamster wheel continues.

  2. “There hasn’t been an NSD debut in Mary Kay in years. It’s so uncommon, and that’s on purpose.”

    But wait! I thought Mary Kay was the best opportunity ever for women because you can promote yourself whenever you want and anyone can do it! WHICH IS IT? ?

    • Right, isn’t it sad how many (executive, elite, senior, special, super duper, whatever title) Sales Directors have such a low “deserve level”? If you listen to them they seem to all WANT it (Future Whatever here’s our goal to get me there) so then why do almost none of them GET there?

      Either the thousands of Directors in MK are lazy losers, or THE BUSINESS PLAN IS FLAWED.

      And (calling Char to explain why this is so…again, even though she’s told you Kaybots over and over how the “business plan” in MK WILL FAIL) so either thousands upon thousands of women who’ve achieved directorship are so very bad at their “job” that they can’t make it to NSD level, OR the plan necessary to execute to meet the MK NSD requirements is not sustainable.

      So which is it?

  3. So it sounds like she is desperately trying to fill out some units to the required 24 for long enough to put herself in the NSD suit. And then she’ll figure out how to hold onto the title?

    Good luck with that.

  4. “Jamie could use people to sign up as personal use consultants…6 months from now you can go back to being a customer. ”

    That certainly doesn’t sound like “strategies that create sustainable strength” as mentioned in the MK Advance brochure.

  5. Here’s the really interesting thing I didn’t mention in the article:

    Jamie is begging her customers to become consultants, even if they just place one order. But her customers becoming consultants under her doesn’t help her become NSD. She doesn’t need more consultants in her unit.

    What she needs is more new directors. So if one of her customers wants to sign up, she’s going to place them in the unit of one of the DIQs. That way she can push some of the struggling DIQs over the finish line with number of consultants.

    • “5 girls have to take very specific promotions.”
      “What she needs is more new directors. So if one of her customers wants to sign up, she’s going to place them in the unit of one of the DIQs.”

      Sounds like other MLMs like It Works and doTERRA. New reps are used as human chess-pieces, moved around and strategically placed to help certain people “rank up”…most importantly, the Boss Babe herself. The Boss Babe always makes it sound like she loves and cares for these people. (“You NEED to do this for your family!”) In reality, it’s all to help herself move up, leaving behind people neck-deep in debt from ordering products they don’t need and can’t sell.

    • Short-term consultants to get her DIQs across the finish line, achieving 5he necessary director count to make NSD…

      Is this how Jamie thinks business is supposed to work? Gaming the system, pushing bodies around like pawns on a chessboard…so wrong. Jamie really earns her “mean girl” moniker with this behavior.

  6. Very sad. After 2012 I am very surprised Directors didn’t just admit defeat and walk away. It doesn’t seem as though this company actually cares. When it comes to these wannabe NSD’s the Karen’s of the world seem to be what’s left. I shudder at the kind of entitlement, selfishness, and demands these women have. I was embarrassed after just a short while. I can’t imagine wasting my life for decades on a pointless losing venture.

    • Little off topic, but do any other Karen’s out there take offense to their name being used like this?

      • Sorry. Ya. This Karen thing is out of hand. It’s just a way to show the horror show that this MK narcissism has become. Apology to all good Karens.

  7. I feel like the whole “gotta rush to finish by xyz date” is intentionally engineered by MK. This frenetic, gotta do this in 13 days or whatever goal gets people in the downline to “order now, worry about actually selling later.” I mean, any one ordering so much in a fifteen day window or whatever is not physically able to actually sell it all in that window. And the concept of not ordering more product until you’ve sold most of what you previously ordered does not exist in MK.

    This is such a shame about Jamie, because I think that if she had pursued a non-MLM out of college and worked even half as hard on it as she has in MK, she’d be a very successful, respected, and properly compensated professional (probably sales or marketing). Instead, she has nothing. If she leaves MK, she has no 401k or anything else to show for it, and will start from scratch elsewhere.

    • It is definitely intentional: FOLO (fear of losing out), and stampeding people into making a decision before they can check the facts is to their benefit.

      Most of the people who abandoned careers for Mary Kay would have been way ahead if they had stayed with it or changed to another PAID job.

  8. The back and forth, up and down, and side to side shenanigans and nonsense that was MK (and other MLMs) and trying to promote yourself makes my head spin to this day. My senior is still an ESD and has been up/down from EESD to ESD to EESD for years. She’s always desired that NSD role, and now I believe that she has hit the age limit where it is no longer possible. Directors have come and gone (like me), and when we leave, a lot of our teams leave, too. (There goes production!)

    I feel sorry for Jamie and her unattainable, unsustainable goals. Is it REALLY worth all of this to get to the top of a scam and have to continue grasping and scrounging for at least another TWO YEARS to stay there?

  9. “dead weight that never did anything except show up to conferences.”

    Yet, the NSD title helped — and still helps — them market themselves as business coaches, mentors, authors, trainers, and motivational speakers.

  10. “Jamie Taylor wants to be a National Sales Director (NSD) in Mary Kay. I don’t know of a sales director in MK who doesn’t want to be an NSD.”

    This is such an important quote.. Almost every MK sales director WANTS to be an NSD. Yet, out of 9,000 or so Sales Directors in a given year, how many become NSDs? One to three?

    So, if there are 9,000 Sales Directors in MK this year, and only three move up to NSD, why is that? When we at PT single out one director who doesn’t make it, were told they didn’t work it correctly, that they’re an anomaly, they’re the one bad apple in the bunch, that we’re just negative, or maybe they had personal problems that affected their goal of NSD.

    If we’re talking about ONE SD not making NSD, sure, any of those excuses could work. But when we’re talking about 8,997 Sales Directors not moving up to NSD…well, then we have a problem with the “bad apple/lazy looser/personal issues” arguments. Even if we concede that “most” SDs “don’t want to be NSDs” (haha, laughable, but we’ll go with it), if even a third WANT to be NSDs, that’s 3,000 directors wanting to be NSDs, and still only one to three of these directors will make it.

    How much more evidence and logic do you need to realize that almost NONE of the 9,000 or so Sales Directors will make NSD? All of them can’t be bad apples, or lazy, or whatever excuse is hot right now. If that many can’t get to the highest position, it’s the system or the business plan itself that is faulty, not the directors. That would not be an acceptable failure rate in normal corporate America…that 8,997 of their 9,000 managers couldn’t meet the requirements needed to move up to the next highest position regardless of the fact that there are no caps on how many of these higher positions exit.

    Think about this: if a company had 9,000 employees at a management level, and every one of those employees was given the opportunity to be able to achieve the next higher level position just as long as they met certain performance factors (no caps to how many made it; everyone who met those requirements would automatically be promoted and paid the higher compensation), would it be feasible to believe that only three out of 9,000 were able to do it?

    And before some Kaybot responds to this by saying something along the lines of “NSD is an executive position, like a CEO, and every company only has one CEO, so MK directors can’t all expect to make it to that position!”…there is one huge, glaring difference. Most companies have one CEO, that’s true. MK has one, residing in the corporate office.

    The position of NSD in MK is NOT a CEO position. It is gained by meeting certain performance criteria, and as far as I know, there is no cap to how many NSD “positions” are available in MK. Simply, if you meet the criteria, you can be an NSD. So why can’t every one of the 9,000 directors become NSD? Why can’t half of them become NSD? Why can’t even just 100 of them become NSD?

    Remember that pesky fact that keeps popping up about how the world can’t perpetuate the MLM structure of endless chain recruitment since for everyone to be successful the world would run out of people to recruit?

    It’s the same math here. If someone who is mathematically inclined (that would not be me) would take this on:

    Take the number of directors in MK USA currently (estimated, so say 9,000?);
    Figure out how many overall people each one of these 9,000 directors would need in their downlines to achieve NSD status (including the recruits of offspring, all the way down the line);

    Then, if we haven’t already exceeded the entire population of the planet, do the same math in taking every offspring director of these first 9,000 directors and performing the same calculations of people necessary for them to also become NSDs.

    Are you dizzy yet? There are the better part of 9,000 Sales Directors in MK who, right now, think THEY can be the next NSD. It’s presented as an achievable goal if you JUST WORK HARD ENOUGH. Well, that’s not the case. It’s not achievable because while thousands of you want it, the entire population of the world doesn’t allow for you to reach it. It’s not your fault; the structure of the “business” doesn’t allow for it, no matter what you do.

    Funny how Kaybots will accept these statistical facts when it comes to discussing why there are so few NSDs, but they disregard the fact that the same math affects the lowest MK positions as well. There are a finite number of people on this planet, and if every single one of them signed up to sell MK (which MK would allow and accept in a heartbeat), none of them could, because market saturation is an actual thing and not an opinion or some negative thought.

    —-backing off my soapbox for the night, thank you for listening 🙂

  11. Any updates? I forgot it was month end last night. The month doesn’t officially”end” until all on ‘hold orders’ ( meaning couldn’t come up with the $ or card declined) are finalized. All hold orders usually means scrambling to ‘find a way, make a way’ to work the system.

    • There were IG stories posted about various women achieving their goals (a certain car, etc), but no one posted about Jamie, so I can only assume they did not meet the requirements.

      Chelsea is now “on target” for FESD. Oh the silly titles and the on target crap.

  12. You with the negative comments. Could you be more obvious? You might as well have a sign on your face that says I am envious and I’m a loser.

    • What would any of us be envious of? The fact that Jamie spends her days lying to new recruits to con them into ordering inventory they don’t need and won’t be able to sell? The fact that Jamie pretends she’s an entrepreneur and helping women, when she knows almost everyone under her loses money?

      I’ll only speak for myself here, but I run a very successful business. More successful that most of the NSDs and all of the sales directors. And I do it honestly. I don’t have to con anyone into anything. My clients come to me willingly, and I help them solve real problems for a fair price.

      Thank you, though, for the same old insults. To make it even more fun, you should call me fat, uneducated, and ugly. Here’s me running a real business and making an honest living:

    • It seems to me that any downline “under” any upline would be the envious ones, and downline might also be considered an inferior loser in upline’s mind.

      Upline might even make you kiss their feet as an act of subordination, and downline would do it wishing and hoping to be that upline leader on the pedestal. Want to keep talking about envy Gina?

      For me, I don’t aspire to be an MLM scammer, so I don’t envy it at all. In fact, I don’t envy much except maybe good health.

      • I’m always amused by the ladies who respond to posts that are months old. It’s like they are patting themselves on the back by being brave enough to venture to the scary PT but not brave enough to post on a recent entry.

        Or else it’s for bragging rights, “I went and told them lazy loosers the truth and they couldn’t answer because they know they are all bitter.” But not admitting they tried to bury their own posts.

        • I think it’s because Jamie is paying for her DIQs to finish today so she can be annointed NSD. So today is the big day that the credit cards get maxed out.

          • And Jamie’s pushing Klarna point-of-sale loans.

            “Buy now” so Jamie can make National. YOU will be one continuing to “pay later.” She will already have forgotten you.

      • Wanted to add because those types of posts really bug me. MLM breeds this culture of always wanting bigger and fancier things instead of being grateful for what you have. It’s the way they put emphasis on “material things you can’t afford” that is so troublesome, not the fact that we all desire to have some level of comfort. MLM trains you to be envious of upline, their pink cars and LVs, and that’s why her accusation was so ironic to me.

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